the question I have

This is the first time I've been able to keep off the weight with any ease
(1 year). Low fat was a real struggle but low carb seems to be easier. I
don't find myself with the cravings that my former low fat diet gave me. I'm
also satisfied with a low carb way of eating because I can have what I want,
a slice of cheesecake, egg salad, bacon, cheese, strawberries with whipped
cream. I mean, really, unless you're a vegan, what's not to like? I believe
that when I do get hungry, it's automatic for me to reach for a handful of
almond and some cheese cubes. I did start to regain a little after losing
nearly 60 pounds but felt crummy and when I hit 3 pounds up, I got back on
track, not induction but quit the white crud. FTR, a good motivation for me
was that I have gotten rid of my "fat" clothes. It's sweater time now and I
like having a flat tummy and looking like a girl🙂

PS, after losing my weight I found that I had a bony overgrowth that I
hadn't noticed before. Turns out they were my hips! Really, I went to the
doctor over that one🙂)

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard answered
with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie,
after a certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new
lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as
I have heard that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time, versus
new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into
this?
I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds had
not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more
significance?

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just get
a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard answered
with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie,
after a certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new
lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as
I have heard that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time, versus
new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into
this?
I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds had
not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more
significance?

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just get
a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

The human body is a carbohydrate burning machine. If you eat more carbs
than your body burns, it stores it as fat. If you eat fewer carbs than your
body needs, it burns the stored fat.

That's a simplistic answer, and the reality is a lot more complicated than
that, and I confess I don't know all the workings of the human body. I
don't think anyone else does either, though a lot of people know more than
I. But the previous paragraph sums it all up pretty well.

Jim Bard wrote:
|| "bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint.
||| of weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
||| answered with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year,
||| five years? More importantly, do such descriptors have any
||| practical meaning, ie, after a certain period of time, do people
||| generally adapt to the new lifestyle and follow it naturally, or
||| must the dieter be wary forever, as I have heard that reformed
||| alcoholics have to be?
|||
||| Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,
||| versus new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight
||| play into this?
||| I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost
||| another 20 pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the
||| last few pounds had not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such
||| old fat of more significance?
|||
||| While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
||| incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps
||| just get a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?
|||
||
|| The human body is a carbohydrate burning machine. If you eat more
|| carbs than your body burns, it stores it as fat. If you eat fewer
|| carbs than your body needs, it burns the stored fat.
||
|| That's a simplistic answer, and the reality is a lot more
|| complicated than that, and I confess I don't know all the workings
|| of the human body. I don't think anyone else does either, though a
|| lot of people know more than I. But the previous paragraph sums it
|| all up pretty well.

Really? Why does that paragraph only mention carbs?

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard answered
with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie,
after a certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new
lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as
I have heard that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time, versus
new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into
this?
I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds had
not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more
significance?

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just get
a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

Probably varies by individual. I've been LC for 2 1/2 years and for quite a
while my weight was stable, but just a couple of months ago it started to
creep up, and suddenly I'd added 7 lbs. So I got a grip and brought it back
down, damned if I'm going to give up all the hard won weight loss, but I
think I'll have to be careful for ever. The big difference with giving up
smoking is that's a total ban, whereas you have to eat, and it's easy for
the amount to increase little by little.

three answers to my post and not one even attmpts to address the questions i
posted....

time folks, i was asking about time, not carbs, not metabolism, but
time.....

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Bard wrote:
|| "bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint.
||| of weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
||| answered with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year,
||| five years? More importantly, do such descriptors have any
||| practical meaning, ie, after a certain period of time, do people
||| generally adapt to the new lifestyle and follow it naturally, or
||| must the dieter be wary forever, as I have heard that reformed
||| alcoholics have to be?
|||
||| Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,
||| versus new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight
||| play into this?
||| I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost
||| another 20 pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the
||| last few pounds had not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such
||| old fat of more significance?
|||
||| While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
||| incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps
||| just get a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?
|||
||
|| The human body is a carbohydrate burning machine. If you eat more
|| carbs than your body burns, it stores it as fat. If you eat fewer
|| carbs than your body needs, it burns the stored fat.
||
|| That's a simplistic answer, and the reality is a lot more
|| complicated than that, and I confess I don't know all the workings
|| of the human body. I don't think anyone else does either, though a
|| lot of people know more than I. But the previous paragraph sums it
|| all up pretty well.

Really? Why does that paragraph only mention carbs?

bob said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
answered with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year,
five years?

I personally believe the idea of "long term" weight loss is ridiculous.
Either you lose the excess weight and keep it off the rest of your life or
you don't. Putting a time limit on it to determine success makes no sense to
me.

Quoted message said:

More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical
meaning, ie, after a certain period of time, do people generally
adapt to the new lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the
dieter be wary forever, as I have heard that reformed alcoholics have
to be?

I think this depends on the individual. There are people who embrace the
totally new way of life and have no problems at all. They never give it
another thought. On the other end of the spectrum there are people who will
always struggle, always have to force themselves to exercise, and always
have to be aware of what they put in their mouths. And there are millions of
points inbetween.

Quoted message said:

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,
versus new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight
play into this?

I don't know the answer to this at all. I'm sure someone does though.

Quoted message said:

I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and
then lost another 20 pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some
of the last few pounds had not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of
such old fat of more significance?

I think the degree of significance lies with the individual.
Just out of curiosity.......how do you know the last pounds you lost were
old fat?

Quoted message said:

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just
get a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

Congrats on maintaining! Not to sound like a broken record but I think it
will vary from person to person.
Weight loss and maintenance are definitely YMMV things.

Bob, have you looked at the National Weight Control Registry to see what
they consider long term? (www.nwcr.ws)

you are missing my question. I am asking if there is some time period, after
which few(er) people fall back, indicating that the behavior has become
"natural" or habit. I am trying to distinguish between two models: either it
is a struggle that you have the rest of your life, and the tempation to
backslide is the same after 20 years as it after 3 months, or after some
period of time, the change becomes habit and becomes part of the person's
natural behavior.

If the same percentage fall back every year, that would suggest the forever
struggle model. If the fall back percentage declines after a certain number
of years, that would suggest the normalized model.

there are of course other models that might explain the data, but what i was
asking is does anyone have any data at all.

I work in a cancer center, so i suppose relapse models are something i think
about a lot.....

"Jeri" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bob said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
answered with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year,
five years?

I personally believe the idea of "long term" weight loss is ridiculous.
Either you lose the excess weight and keep it off the rest of your life or
you don't. Putting a time limit on it to determine success makes no sense
to
me.

Quoted message said:

More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical
meaning, ie, after a certain period of time, do people generally
adapt to the new lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the
dieter be wary forever, as I have heard that reformed alcoholics have
to be?

I think this depends on the individual. There are people who embrace the
totally new way of life and have no problems at all. They never give it
another thought. On the other end of the spectrum there are people who
will
always struggle, always have to force themselves to exercise, and always
have to be aware of what they put in their mouths. And there are millions
of
points inbetween.

Quoted message said:

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,
versus new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight
play into this?

I don't know the answer to this at all. I'm sure someone does though.

Quoted message said:

I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and
then lost another 20 pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some
of the last few pounds had not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of
such old fat of more significance?

I think the degree of significance lies with the individual.
Just out of curiosity.......how do you know the last pounds you lost were
old fat?

Quoted message said:

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just
get a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

Congrats on maintaining! Not to sound like a broken record but I think it
will vary from person to person.
Weight loss and maintenance are definitely YMMV things.

I'm guessing at two possible explanations for those who abandon LC. First,
is a theory that humans imprint on their food at an early age, which leads
to returning to that carby food pattern as an adult. The second idea is
that successful dieters are overcome by social pressures to return to carbs,
which leads to regain.

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard answered
with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?

More

Quoted message said:

importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie, after a
certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new lifestyle and
follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as I have heard
that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time, versus
new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into

this?

Quoted message said:

I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds had
not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more

significance?

Quoted message said:

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just get

a

Quoted message said:

lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

Had you let your carbs increase?

"Anthony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard

answered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie,
after a certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new
lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever,

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have heard that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,

versus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into
this?
I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more
significance?

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

Probably varies by individual. I've been LC for 2 1/2 years and for quite

a

Quoted message said:

while my weight was stable, but just a couple of months ago it started to
creep up, and suddenly I'd added 7 lbs. So I got a grip and brought it

back

Quoted message said:

down, damned if I'm going to give up all the hard won weight loss, but I
think I'll have to be careful for ever. The big difference with giving up
smoking is that's a total ban, whereas you have to eat, and it's easy for
the amount to increase little by little.

Ketones too.

"Jim Bard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:kB9wd.1389$7s5.812@okepread03...

Quoted message said:

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard

answered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie,
after a certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new
lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever,

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have heard that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,

versus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into
this?
I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more
significance?

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

The human body is a carbohydrate burning machine. If you eat more carbs
than your body burns, it stores it as fat. If you eat fewer carbs than

your

Quoted message said:

body needs, it burns the stored fat.

That's a simplistic answer, and the reality is a lot more complicated than
that, and I confess I don't know all the workings of the human body. I
don't think anyone else does either, though a lot of people know more than
I. But the previous paragraph sums it all up pretty well.

bob said:

you are missing my question. I am asking if there is some time
period, after which few(er) people fall back, indicating that the
behavior has become "natural" or habit. I am trying to distinguish
between two models: either it is a struggle that you have the rest of
your life, and the tempation to backslide is the same after 20 years
as it after 3 months, or after some period of time, the change
becomes habit and becomes part of the person's natural behavior.

<snip>

So what you're looking for are statistics.
Sorry, can't help you.
IMO statistics are meaningless when applied to individual cases.

bob wrote:
:: While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint.
:: of weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
:: answered with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year,
:: five years?

It depends. Your body, your experiment, your journey.

More importantly, do such descriptors have any practical
:: meaning, ie, after a certain period of time, do people generally
:: adapt to the new lifestyle and follow it naturally, or must the
:: dieter be wary forever, as I have heard that reformed alcoholics
:: have to be?
::

IMO, it will not be natural, as in something requiring no thought. Keep in
mind that I didn't start LCing until I was about 43, so at 46, I only have 3
years of experience to weigh against 43 years. Thus, I'm assuming a journey
that will always involve struggle to "beat back the beast," so to speak.

:: Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,
:: versus new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight
:: play into this?

I think so.

I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and
:: then lost another 20 pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some
:: of the last few pounds had not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of
:: such old fat of more significance?

I think so. The longer it's off, the more it becomes your status quo, or
your steady state. Your steady state is where you can easily stay, imo,
without lots of thought or attention. It might be a setpoint.

::
:: While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
:: incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps
:: just get a lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

It depends, IMO.

bob wrote:
:: three answers to my post and not one even attmpts to address the
:: questions i posted....
::
:: time folks, i was asking about time, not carbs, not metabolism, but
:: time.....

Here, you can claim ownership of your post, not the thread that results.

thanks, that is an interesting site.

"heartha" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob, have you looked at the National Weight Control Registry to see what
they consider long term? (www.nwcr.ws)

bob said:

you are missing my question. I am asking if there is some time period, after
which few(er) people fall back, indicating that the behavior has become
"natural" or habit. I am trying to distinguish between two models: either it
is a struggle that you have the rest of your life, and the tempation to
backslide is the same after 20 years as it after 3 months, or after some
period of time, the change becomes habit and becomes part of the person's
natural behavior.

-------

hi, bob -

I have been reading the group (now and then) ... over the last two
years. That's when I got and acted on my wake up call.... ;-)

It took me a while to correct the problems I had created for myself by
thinking that I could eat what ever I wanted, whenever I wanted and not
pay a price for it.

During the years that I was the caregiver for my mother, I found comfort
at the end of the day from treats that were not good for me. This
piled more than 40 pounds of misery onto my little frame and I hated it.
It was gradual...over a 14 year time period.

I had never been close to "overweight" before that. Even pregnant (4Xs)
I never weighed more than 128 pounds...it was not in my body's nature to
be a big person. My point is, weight was never a problem until the
stress was so great that I coped with it in the wrong way.

One day I had what some call a "light bulb moment", realized what I had
done and decided to change it. That was on Jan. 29th 2002. It took about
9 months to correct it .... my weight has been stable at 113-115 since then.

I can't predict the future but I suspect that particular problem is over
for me.... ;-) I know there will be others LOL....life is full of
challenges.

I wish all of you good luck in your journey toward better health and
being the person you want to be.

Patricia

"If you always do - what you've always done then you're always going to
get - what you always got."

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm guessing at two possible explanations for those who abandon LC.

First,

Quoted message said:

is a theory that humans imprint on their food at an early age, which leads
to returning to that carby food pattern as an adult. The second idea is
that successful dieters are overcome by social pressures to return to

carbs,

Quoted message said:

which leads to regain.

I am definitely feeling pressure from some friends, family, and
co-workers to conform back to what they consider the "normal" way of eating.
Especially since the one year anniversary of my starting Atkins' is coming
up. With a recent media report stating that lo-carb is waning, the comments
are getting more frequent. It's kind of funny because I worry about the way
they eat as well. I am confident that I can continue despite the negativity
and hopefully set an example by keeping my weight at goal.
Tom
210/180/180

Quoted message said:

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard

answered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?

More

Quoted message said:

importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie, after a
certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new lifestyle

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as I have heard
that reformed alcoholics have to be?

Are there variations on weight that has been there for a long time,

versus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

new weight? That is, does how long you have been over weight play into

this?

Quoted message said:

I lost 20 pounds that I have had for 10 years, and then lost another 20
pounds that I have had for over 20 years. Some of the last few pounds

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not been off me for 27 years. Is loss of such old fat of more

significance?

Quoted message said:

While I have been able to maintain for a year now, and it has been
incredibly easier than LF, it still seems to require, or perhaps just

get

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

lot of my attention. Does it ever become second nature?

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had you let your carbs increase?

Yup. After lunch I started eating a small amout of chocolate. Then I added
some grapes. Then I did the same thing after dinner. And of course the
effects showed up on the scales. So I've cut out all that stuff and I'm
back where I should be.

==========
While we are discussing the paucity of information long term maint. of
weight loss, the question I have that I have never seen or heard
answered
with any clarity is what is long term weight loss. A year, five years?
More
importantly, do such descriptors have any practical meaning, ie, after
a
certain period of time, do people generally adapt to the new lifestyle
and
follow it naturally, or must the dieter be wary forever, as I have
heard
that reformed alcoholics have to be?
===========

I can not speak for others, but for me, long term is forever. I have
found a lifestyle (low-carb) that both works for me to lose and keep
the weight off, but it is also a way I can eat the rest of my life.

I have come to terms with the fact that I will probably not eat grain
products the rest of my life. (Sure there will be a litle here or
there, but for the most, they are out of my life. ) and since I accept
that, I do not miss it at all. (it has been almost 2 years since I ate
a cracker or a piece of bread)

Today, the cafeteria had Philly cheese steaks. I got to the front of
the line, I ordered a cheese steak, and when they handed me my plate,
there was no bread on it. The workers there know me now, and they know
I don't eat bread. It is just the way I live. The same way it was
just second nature for them to not put it on a roll, it is second
nature for me to not miss the roll.

(fyi, the cheese steak was great, to go with it, I have some broccoli
and dipped it in some Ranch dressing.)

For me 15 years of dieting never worked. It was a complete life style
change that did it.