yet another sucker?

dan_s said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing i
bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any other
model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs don't look
like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not
thanks
dan

I don't think the seller mis-represented anything. He clearly described
these as vintage Tipo Record hubs. I think they are sometimes called Nouvo
Tipo.

In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record. I think the
pictures are accurate, and the price is reasonable. If you didn't know what
"tipo record" was, you should have asked. If you didn't read the text, shame
on you.

They look pretty nice to me. Since they have been laced one time before,
make sure to lace spokes in the same orientation as the previous lacing

Art Harris

dan_s said:

Quoted message said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing i
bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any other
model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs don't look
like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not

Arthur Harris said:

I don't think the seller mis-represented anything. He clearly described
these as vintage Tipo Record hubs. I think they are sometimes called Nouvo
Tipo.

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

"Record" was and is the top of the line. Strictly speaking, there is no
such thing as "Nuovo Record" hubs...when the "Record" group was updated
to "Nuovo Record" there was no change to the hubs or to several other
components. However, folks do sometimes colloquially refer to these as
"Nuovo" Record.

Quoted message said:

In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record.

He _did_ represent them as _Record_ which they most definitely are not.

Quoted message said:

I think the
pictures are accurate, and the price is reasonable. If you didn't know what
"tipo record" was, you should have asked. If you didn't read the text, shame
on you.

The eBay listing was false and misleading to call these "Record type"
hubs, whether in Italian or English.

That's not to say this couldn't have been an honest mistake on the part
of the seller.

Considering they didn't include any skewers, they're no bargain.
There's not a lot of use for these, since the rear is for an
old-fashioned thread-on freewheel. Might be good for an economical
fixed-gear conversion, but not a good choice for any multi-speed
application.

Sheldon "Not A Bargain" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice |
| that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

From: dan_s

Quoted message said:

i wouldn't have bought them had i known they were not genuine records

Try patching this up with the seller, trying "reasonable" first. That's what
feedback is for, not for taking scalps (well, scalps as a "last resort"😉.
People make mistakes, fix it per mutual agreement if possible. --TP

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing
i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any
other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs
don't look like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not
thanks
dan

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing
i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any
other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs
don't look like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not
thanks
dan

Tipo hubs weren't bad per se, but nowhere even close to the quality of
Record (either Super or Nuovo). The main issue we saw was relatively
short-lasting bearing surfaces (on a well-maintained Nuovo Record hub,
rear axles would break from time to time, but the bearing surfaces would
last FOREVER... still have a few of them going strong after many, many
years).

Tipo was never a substitute for Nuovo Record, even for a "brief period."
It would be similar to the differences between Record and Veloce today.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Never heard of "Tipo" hubs, but I've got a reference to Nuovo Victory and
Nuovo Triomphe (mid-80's) and IIRC, these are the style hubs that came with
those groups. I can't speak to the quality of the bearings (I've always
thought that Campy put the same bearings and races into just about
everything they make ... they seem to now, anyway). Record hubs have had
grease ports in the center spindle and slip ring covers since the late
sixties ... an identifying characteristic. Their quick releases (sorry, you
didn't get them) have a ring on the nut ... not sure why, they imply
"professional grade" and add a gram or two.

The C-Record freewheel hub was perhaps the most beautiful and durable hub
ever made. Excellent seals, world-class bearings, bulletproof flanges and
gorgeous finish. I finally sold mine when I went to 9 speeds.

R / John

Sheldon Brown said:

Considering they didn't include any skewers, they're no bargain. There's
not a lot of use for these, since the rear is for an old-fashioned
thread-on freewheel. Might be good for an economical fixed-gear
conversion, but not a good choice for any multi-speed application.

That's all true, but the eBay listing clearly states that these are
"vintage" 126mm and for "freewheel only." If the buyer thought these were
modern cassette-type hubs, that's not the seller's fault.

When bidding on eBay it's important to know what you're buying, or at least
ask questions. If I were looking to buy older NR hubs, and I saw a listing
for "Tipo Record," I would certainly have asked for clarification before
bidding.

Art Harris

John Carrier said:

Never heard of "Tipo" hubs, but I've got a reference to Nuovo Victory
and Nuovo Triomphe (mid-80's) and IIRC, these are the style hubs
that came with those groups.

I agree - Triomphe or Victory. Nuovo Tipo small-flanged hubs looked much
more like their Record counterparts, with a very slender, parallel-sided
barrel. I think the shield logo is too late for Nuovo Tipo as well.

James Thomson

Sheldon Brown said:

dan_s said:

Quoted message said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376

never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text,
believing i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of
"record" or any other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i
found record hubs don't look like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not

Quoted message said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

"Record" was and is the top of the line. Strictly speaking, there is no
such thing as "Nuovo Record" hubs...when the "Record" group was updated
to "Nuovo Record" there was no change to the hubs or to several other
components. However, folks do sometimes colloquially refer to these as
"Nuovo" Record.

Quoted message said:

In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record.

He _did_ represent them as _Record_ which they most definitely are not.

Something seems wrong here. I have a Nuovo Tipo front hub on my tandem.
It doesn't look **anything** like the ebay photos referenced above.
My "tipo" hub has a winged-circle (wheel?) logo, the ones in the photo
have the later Campy winged shield logo. The finish on my tipo hub is
(and was) nowhere near as nice as the ones in the photo.

I *thought* the Nuovo Tipo line was dropped when Triomphe and Victory
was introduced or earlier.
Per http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html, the Nuovo Tipo was
introduced in 1967. Was there an "improved" Nuovo Tipo somewhere in
between? (I didn't think so).

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, *if* Record hubs ever came
w/o dust caps (I thought they had, sometime between "Nuovo" record and
the modern record), "Tipo Record" could mean simply "Record-type" and
these words might well appear on a Record box. Otherwise I would
suspect these of being Triomphe/Victory models, or something later
(Early Athena?)

Time to call out the real Campy gurus.

Mark Janeba

yes they do look nice, the run smooth and the price is reasonable
But, the seller did write in big letters RECORD, so if these are not
record items, this title is misinforming regardless the other facts
is Nouvo Tipo a subtype of record? afaik they are not equivalent
i wouldn't have bought them had i known they were not genuine records

Quoted message said:

I don't think the seller mis-represented anything. He clearly described
these as vintage Tipo Record hubs. I think they are sometimes called Nouvo
Tipo.

In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record. I think the
pictures are accurate, and the price is reasonable. If you didn't know what
"tipo record" was, you should have asked. If you didn't read the text, shame
on you.

They look pretty nice to me. Since they have been laced one time before,
make sure to lace spokes in the same orientation as the previous lacing

Art Harris

Sheldon Brown said:

That's not to say this couldn't have been an honest mistake on the part
of the seller.

this is his website
http://sellonline4you.com/

a professional bike dealer who can't identify record from tipo?
theoretically possible

Quoted message said:

That's all true, but the eBay listing clearly states that these are
"vintage" 126mm and for "freewheel only." If the buyer thought these were
modern cassette-type hubs, that's not the seller's fault.

i knew very well these were old hubs, i wasn't looking for cassete type
hubs and this is not the reason for my disappointment

Quoted message said:

When bidding on eBay it's important to know what you're buying, or at least
ask questions. If I were looking to buy older NR hubs, and I saw a listing
for "Tipo Record," I would certainly have asked for clarification before
bidding.

still, the title was misleading. there is no reason for advertising
something which doesn't exist such as "tipo record"

dan_s said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
> http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
>
> never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text,
> believing i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of
> "record" or any other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i
> found record hubs don't look like those i bought.
> the seller claims this:
> "These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
> period"
> i found no support to that
> can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not

I plied again:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Nuovo Tipo" is Italian for "New Type" and is a lower level model, not
the same quality as Record.

"Record" was and is the top of the line. Strictly speaking, there is
no such thing as "Nuovo Record" hubs...when the "Record" group was
updated to "Nuovo Record" there was no change to the hubs or to
several other components. However, folks do sometimes colloquially
refer to these as "Nuovo" Record.

Quoted message said:

In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record.

He _did_ represent them as _Record_ which they most definitely are not.

Mark Janeba said:

Something seems wrong here. I have a Nuovo Tipo front hub on my tandem.
It doesn't look **anything** like the ebay photos referenced above.
My "tipo" hub has a winged-circle (wheel?) logo, the ones in the photo
have the later Campy winged shield logo.

I never said they were Nuovo Tipo (by the way, calling them "Tipo" is a
misnomer, albeit a common one. "Tipo" is Italian for "type."

Quoted message said:

The finish on my tipo hub is
(and was) nowhere near as nice as the ones in the photo.

These don't look any nicer than Nuovo Tipos I've seen and owned. I
agree that they don't look like them, but I was allowing for the
possibility that they're a later variant, Nuovo Nuovo Tipo, if you will.

Quoted message said:

I *thought* the Nuovo Tipo line was dropped when Triomphe and Victory
was introduced

These could easily be one of those. Those models came out at a time
when I was out of the bike biz, a period where my knowledge is less than
complete.

Quoted message said:

or earlier.
Per http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html, the Nuovo Tipo was
introduced in 1967. Was there an "improved" Nuovo Tipo somewhere in
between? (I didn't think so).

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, *if* Record hubs ever came
w/o dust caps (I thought they had, sometime between "Nuovo" record and
the modern record),

I'm guessing you're referring to the oil filler holes...they all have
dust caps.

It is my understanding that the classic "Record" hubs were current until
replaced by the goofy and much inferior "C-Record" model.

Quoted message said:

"Tipo Record" could mean simply "Record-type" and
these words might well appear on a Record box.

That might be so, but the hubs shown are _not_ Records of any sort.
Very likely Triomphe or Victory as you suggest.

Quoted message said:

Time to call out the real Campy gurus.

I'm Cc:ing Peter Chisholm, who may have missed this thread...

Sheldon "Nota Record" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| If it was God's purpose to create Humanity |
| in his own image, we must conclude that he |
| is omniscient, omnipotent and incompetent. |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

dan_s said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text,
believing i bought record hubs. however there is no mention of
"record" or any other model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i
found record hubs don't look like those i bought. the seller claims
this: "These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for
brief period" i found no support to that can anyone tell if these
are RECORD hubs or not

This is what I think of as a Tipo hub:

http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=46

According to the Velo-Retro Campy timeline, these were introduced in
1967. To quote from Chuck's site:

"Some Campagnolo parts can be dated by codes or patent dates. As an
example, the Nuovo Record rear derailleur has a patent date that
corresponds to its manufacturing date starting in 1970 (example
"PAT. 70"😉; marked "PATENT" before 1970. The lock nut on the hub axle
typically is stamped with "CAM. 60" or some other number denoting the
last two digits of the year of manufacture. The word "RECORD" was
added to the hub barrels from 1963 onwards."

It's hard to tell from looking at the photos, but these hubs are
certainly not Tipo hubs- they are much newer that that. They are
post- Nuovo Record and Super Record. They look like late 80's, like
the C-Record era, but are probably Chorus or Athena hubs. These are
6/7 speed freewheel hubs with an OLN measurement of 126 mm, so they
will not fit into modern 8/9/10 speed bike frames which have an OLN of
130 mm. I'm assuming you knew that.

They look good in the pictures, the price is fine for Chorus or Athena
and very excellent for Record if that's what they are, and I don't
think you got ripped off. I'd build 'em up, making sure the new
spokes are aligned with the marks from the old spokes, and not worry
about it. The seller has his terminology a little goofed up, it seems
to me.

Tim McNamara said:

This is what I think of as a Tipo hub:

http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=46

Exactly - this is the hub I have. The most visually obvious differences
between Tipo and Record of the same era - Round flange holes rather
ovals, no oil-filler cap, distinctive skewer nut shape, and skewer lever
held in by circlip rather than nut.

Even allowing for differences in photography, these don't have near as
shiny a finish as the Ebay hubs in question (IMHO).

Mark Janeba

Sheldon Brown said:

Mark Janeba said:

Something seems wrong here. I have a Nuovo Tipo front hub on my
tandem. It doesn't look **anything** like the ebay photos
referenced above. My "tipo" hub has a winged-circle (wheel?) logo,
the ones in the photo have the later Campy winged shield logo.

I never said they were Nuovo Tipo (by the way, calling them "Tipo" is a
misnomer, albeit a common one. "Tipo" is Italian for "type."

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The finish on my tipo hub is (and was) nowhere near as nice as the
ones in the photo.

These don't look any nicer than Nuovo Tipos I've seen and owned. I
agree that they don't look like them, but I was allowing for the
possibility that they're a later variant, Nuovo Nuovo Tipo, if you will.

A difference of opinion between us about the finish quality, then. I
too wonder if there was a newer variant of the Tipo hubs, but doubt it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, *if* Record hubs ever came
w/o dust caps (I thought they had, sometime between "Nuovo" record and
the modern record),

I'm guessing you're referring to the oil filler holes...they all have
dust caps.

Yes, if by dust caps you mean around the cones.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Time to call out the real Campy gurus.

I'm Cc:ing Peter Chisholm, who may have missed this thread...

Good idea. I'm getting curious about this.

Mark Janeba

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

This is what I think of as a [Nuovo] Tipo hub:

http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=46

Mark Janeba said:

Exactly - this is the hub I have. The most visually obvious differences
between [Nuovo] Tipo and Record of the same era - Round flange holes rather
ovals, no oil-filler cap, distinctive skewer nut shape, and skewer lever
held in by circlip rather than nut.

Another, less obvious difference is that the Nuovo Tipo front hub used
normal 3/16" bearing balls, rather than the 'oversized' 7/32" size used
on all Record variants.

Quoted message said:

Even allowing for differences in photography, these don't have near as
shiny a finish as the Ebay hubs in question (IMHO).

Could be 'cause they're older. My recollection is that they were nice
and shiny when they were new.

Sheldon "'Type' Hubs?" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Ah, but I was so much older then, |
| I'm younger than that now. |
| -Bob Dylan |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

This is what I think of as a [Nuovo] Tipo hub:

http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=46

Mark Janeba said:

Exactly - this is the hub I have. The most visually obvious differences
between [Nuovo] Tipo and Record of the same era - Round flange holes rather
ovals, no oil-filler cap, distinctive skewer nut shape, and skewer lever
held in by circlip rather than nut.

Another, less obvious difference is that the Nuovo Tipo front hub used
normal 3/16" bearing balls, rather than the 'oversized' 7/32" size used
on all Record variants.

Quoted message said:

Even allowing for differences in photography, these don't have near as
shiny a finish as the Ebay hubs in question (IMHO).

Could be 'cause they're older. My recollection is that they were nice
and shiny when they were new.

Sheldon "'Type' Hubs?" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Ah, but I was so much older then, |
| I'm younger than that now. |
| -Bob Dylan |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"dan_s" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing i
bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any other
model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs don't look
like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not
thanks
dan

Dan: I've had about every variant of Campagnolo hub ever made. These are
NOT any version of the top-end Record hubs.

Nor are these the second-tier Nuovo Tipo (New Type) hubs from the 70's.
These hubs look to be either Victory or Triomphe from the 80's.

The difference between these hubs and the top-end Record Corsa (C-Record)
hubs of the 80's is the better sealing of the C-Record hubs, and the forged
bearing cups with C-Record. The lesser Campy hubs had stamped cups. The
forged cups will outlast the stamped cups by a wide margin. However, if you
keep these hubs well lubricated, they should still outlast you. I rode a
set of Tipo hubs with stamped cups for 30 years. I went through several
sets of rims and cones and bearings, but still did not wear out the cups.

Quoted message said:

dan_s said:

i admit bought these hubs (staring at my shoes)
http://mas1.bezeqint.net/cgi-bin/fetch.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7115403376
never having campy equipment before i just looked at the text, believing i
bought record hubs. however there is no mention of "record" or any other
model on the hubs, and doing some googling, i found record hubs don't look
like those i bought.
the seller claims this:
"These are as stated "Tipo Record". Was like Nuovo record for brief
period"
i found no support to that
can anyone tell if these are RECORD hubs or not

Arthur Harris said:

I don't think the seller mis-represented anything. He clearly described
these as vintage Tipo Record hubs. I think they are sometimes called Nouvo
Tipo.
In any event, he did not represent these as Nouvo Record. I think the
pictures are accurate, and the price is reasonable. If you didn't know what
"tipo record" was, you should have asked. If you didn't read the text, shame
on you.
They look pretty nice to me. Since they have been laced one time before,
make sure to lace spokes in the same orientation as the previous lacing

I agree with Art; looks more like confusion than dishonesty.
Both buyer and seller.

The Record hub never got redesigned so it remained Record,
there's no Nuovo Record hub. A very short run of Super
Record hubs in 1974 had titanium axles but that was dropped
after something like 1000 pairs. So for all practical
purposes premium hubs are only Record.

The New Type or in Italian 'Nuovo Tipo' hubs do not have
forged races. The front hub takes 10x10 3/16 bearings like
most other aluminum shell hubs (unlike Record's 7/32 balls).
Rear 9x9 1/4" as Record. Cones are silver colored, not
black phosphate finish as Record. The high flange model has
round, not oval, piercings and there's no oiler cap in the
center. Nuovo Tipo skewers used a modern E-clip to secure
the skewer lever rather than Record's hefty cap nut. The
other side is round with knurlings , no wire bail. Locknuts
are simple 16 & 17mm hex stock. Record locknuts are slotted
for a 14m cone wrench.

Nuovo Tipo hubs are also GranSport hubs after , what?, 1978
or so.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971