Roads Gone Wild

In article <[email hidden]>, Pete Bentley

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Blimey. It sounds sane - it'll never catch on 🙁

"Pete Bentley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's
not that new now. I just wish more attention was being paid to it and we
could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one way systems and speed bumps
here! I really do believe traffic would flow more smoothly, and more
safely.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it,
and it's not that new now. I just wish more attention was being
paid to it and we could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one
way systems and speed bumps here! I really do believe traffic would
flow more smoothly, and more safely.

Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

Pete Bentley vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Sounds different, and plausible, enough to actually work.

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."
(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

Good point! I'll go along with that 😉

Rich

Quoted message said:

Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

Hear, hear

Toby

Richard Goodman <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's

I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get across
some junctions on a bike.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Arthur Clune said:

Richard Goodman said:

I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it,
and it's

I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get
across some junctions on a bike.

Arthur

I think it involves more than simply removing the signs, etc. It seems to
involve reshaping the roadway as well. Anyhow, I noticed when the lights
went out at a huge junction, very close to where I live, there wasn't chaos
at all. In fact everyone was taking lots more care as no-one was assuming
anything. This lasted for about a week -- god knows what was wrong with the
lights which they couldn't fix in all that time.

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get across
some junctions on a bike.

That is the fear that stops it happening of course isn't it? It's counter
intuitive. It goes against decades of road traffic planning and thinking,
and people have got used to the way things are. Without signs to tell them
what to do, people think it will be chaos. Perhaps it wouldn't work
everywhere - it seems to be mainly an inner city thing. But where it has
been tried, it seems to have been a success. Busy junctions have been
redesigned, the signs pulled out, and the death rate has fallen - in the
article referred to by the OP, from 3 per year in one place to zero. What
I've read about it is enough to persuade me at least that it can be done and
does work, and would probably be better for all road users than the
continual proliferation of traffic lights, traffic islands, pinch points,
speed bumps and segregated cycle provision that in the end just creates more
congestion, frustration and danger, that we keep seeing here. 'Here' for me
at least, being London.

Rich

Paul - censored said:

Pete Bentley vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Sounds different, and plausible, enough to actually work.

Why do these innovative schemes always seem to be thought of and developed
in other countries,usually The Netherlands or Scandinavia? There does seem
to be a lot of sensible thought behind the ideas,although I first heard
about similar practices a couple of years ago.Practical or sensible or not I
would bet a pound to a penny that in say twenty years we will still not have
seen any application of ideas like this except in the odd pocket of forward
thinking.
In my odd and superficial brush with the thoughts of Traffic Engineers I
found them to be very fixed in their ideas and loathe to take on new
thinking,especially if it impedes the onward progress of the great god "car
".
Here in Wakefield the presence of an Avanced Stop Line is seen as something
radical so I think these ideas will be a little while coming.

Sam Salt

Richard Goodman said:

"Pete Bentley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's
not that new now. I just wish more attention was being paid to it and we
could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one way systems and speed bumps
here! I really do believe traffic would flow more smoothly, and more
safely.

I doubt it would be more smoothly; part of the point is that it forces
drivers to slow down, take care and think about what is going on around
them. A driver can no longer assume right of way, because everyone is
effectively equal in priority. But, yes, I really would be delighted to
see it given a serious test here. It might undermine the drivers' belief
that everything is there just for them (which encourages them to
maltreat cyclists and other road users). Just as good it would remove
innumerable obstacles from the pavements. It amazes me how ready the
council is to stick things all over the pavement as though that was the
pavement's primary purpose.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

That's about right. I wish to publicly state that, contrary to
rumour, I am not 100% against bike lanes.

Second thoughts: on the other hand, that would imply that there are
about 3km of good bike lanes in London. I think that's an over
estimate.

Jeremy Parker

Pete Bentley said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Pete.

it's one of the things I've thought of for a long time. The UK appears
to have far more directional/instructional street furniture than other
european countries - maybe it is a reflection of the poor standard of
drivers in the UK

Pete whelan said:

Pete Bentley said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.
Pete.

it's one of the things I've thought of for a long time. The UK appears
to have far more directional/instructional street furniture than other
european countries - maybe it is a reflection of the poor standard of
drivers in the UK

Bear in mind that the UK has a pretty good record for overall deaths
and serious injuries on the roads compared with many Europoean
countries.

Arthur Clune said:

Richard Goodman <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's

I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get across
some junctions on a bike.

I've known junctions where it has been chaos after a traffic light
failure, and others where the traffic has flowed much more smoothly.
It tends to go slowly and carefully, wvwn hesitantly, through the
junction but without the tail-backs that usually build up.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:49:10 GMT, Dave Kahn <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It tends to go slowly and carefully, wvwn hesitantly, through the

Oops. "wvwn" should be "even".

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

Pete whelan said:

Pete Bentley said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Pete.

it's one of the things I've thought of for a long time. The UK appears
to have far more directional/instructional street furniture than other
european countries - maybe it is a reflection of the poor standard of
drivers in the UK

Maybe not so much 'poor standard of driving' (although I agree not
great) but maybe poor at 'self discipline' and the general attitude
towards others of today's society. In other words 'F.... you I'm
alright matey'

See it day in day out !!!

Who cares??

Jeremy Parker said:

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

That's about right. I wish to publicly state that, contrary to
rumour, I am not 100% against bike lanes.

Second thoughts: on the other hand, that would imply that there are
about 3km of good bike lanes in London. I think that's an over
estimate.

And in other towns and cities ...........

Why is it that traffic planners (stupid name because they don't, plan
I mean) always end cycle lanes leading back into the mid section of
fast flowing 'A' roads.

Ah yes, sorry I forgot any SENSIBLE traffic planner (spit) would not
know one end of a bicycle from the other.

Seasons Greetings to all, Traffic Planners Sod Off !!

"Pete Bentley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Haven't they done something along these lines on Kensington High Street ?

T