Front derailleur/compact crank issues

psycholist said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back.
I love it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front
derailleur I do (or anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops
the chain to the inside when shifting to the small ring. I don't
figure there's any stopping it, but the real problem is, unlike on my
old DA crankset, I can't just shift it back on. I have to stop,
dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This caused me a long and
painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday and ruined one
target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an
area with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front
derailleur is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a
well-adjusted derailleur. But not being able to shift the chain back
on is very bad. Anyone have any success solving these problems?

At the risk of being Bill Baka-like (talking out my ass with no knowledge of
the topic), I'd suggest a "chain keeper" or whatever it's called. Small
device that physically prevents the chain from dropping in first place.

Quoted message said:

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to
shift. It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring.
But cable tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of
miles on it. What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Assuming shifter and cable/housing are all fine, lube all pivot points on
derailleur. (You can disconnect cable and check the shifter and housing for
resistance; easiest fix is obviously replacing them before components.)

Good luck!
--
BS (no, really)

"B i l l S o r n s o n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back.
I love it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front
derailleur I do (or anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops
the chain to the inside when shifting to the small ring. I don't
figure there's any stopping it, but the real problem is, unlike on my
old DA crankset, I can't just shift it back on. I have to stop,
dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This caused me a long and
painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday and ruined one
target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an
area with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front
derailleur is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a
well-adjusted derailleur. But not being able to shift the chain back
on is very bad. Anyone have any success solving these problems?

At the risk of being Bill Baka-like (talking out my ass with no knowledge
of
the topic), I'd suggest a "chain keeper" or whatever it's called. Small
device that physically prevents the chain from dropping in first place.

Quoted message said:

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to
shift. It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring.
But cable tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of
miles on it. What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Assuming shifter and cable/housing are all fine, lube all pivot points on
derailleur. (You can disconnect cable and check the shifter and housing
for
resistance; easiest fix is obviously replacing them before components.)

Good luck!
--
BS (no, really)

Bill,

I've had the suggestion for a chain keeper before. Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid.

Do you have a specific product name and manufacturer?

Thanks,
Bob C.

psycholist said:

I've had the suggestion for a chain keeper before. Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid.

Do you have a specific product name and manufacturer?

Sheldon Brown has these for $11.95.
<http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/drive.html#deflectors>

--
Tom Sherman - Rock Island County Illinois
Tetrahedral carbon lattices are not forever.

psycholist said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do (or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,
but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift it
back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This
caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday
and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front derailleur
is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a well-adjusted derailleur.
But not being able to shift the chain back on is very bad. Anyone have any
success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

(1) Fix a "Jump Stop" to your downtube. This will prevent chain drop
off. Harris has them.

(2) I'd suggest you change your derailleur, but not for another DA --
get the Ultegra. There is a difference in width for the triple, so much
so that the Ultegra will shift properly for all chainwheel-cog
combinations, while the DA may not work in the extremes, and may be the
cause of your present problem.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Bob Wheeler said:

psycholist said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back.
I love it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front
derailleur I do (or anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes
drops the chain to the inside when shifting to the small ring. I
don't figure there's any stopping it, but the real problem is,
unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift it back on. I have
to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This caused me a
long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday and
ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in
an area with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the
front derailleur is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a
well-adjusted derailleur. But not being able to shift the chain back
on is very bad. Anyone have any success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to
shift. It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring.
But cable tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of
miles on it. What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

(1) Fix a "Jump Stop" to your downtube. This will prevent chain drop
off. Harris has them.

(2) I'd suggest you change your derailleur, but not for another DA --
get the Ultegra. There is a difference in width for the triple, so
much so that the Ultegra will shift properly for all chainwheel-cog
combinations, while the DA may not work in the extremes, and may be
the cause of your present problem.

Another suggestion is to use a triple derailleur. The have a deeper-bellied
inner face, for shifting to a 30t chainring, that works very well stopping
the chain from over-shifting the little ring. This works very well for me.

Some frame tube size/shape configurations prohibit the use of the chain
deflectors.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:48:34 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do (or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,
but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift it
back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This
caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday
and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I can't get dropped chain to go up on various cranksets I've tried.

Quoted message said:

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front derailleur
is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a well-adjusted derailleur.
But not being able to shift the chain back on is very bad. Anyone have any
success solving these problems?

I have 2 Cannondale Caad 7 frames that are the same size. The Campy
components are functionally identical. One bicycle has the FSA
Compact crankset and it regularly dropped the chain. The other has a
Stronglight Granfundo. The 50t ring is an old SR and has no shift
assists but shifts fine. The only time that the chain will drop,
sometimes, is when I shift directly from the three inner, large cogs,
down to the 34. If I light grease on the teeth of the 50t FSA ring,
the chain does not drop frequently. I can only guess that the design
of the FSA ring holds the chain on a tad too long. I solved the
problem by putting a Jump Stop on the problem bicycle. Now it never
drops the chain.

Quoted message said:

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Make sure you ran the cable over the little tab before the attachment
bolt and not underneath it. It looks like the cable should go
underneath it.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:36:51 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've had the suggestion for a chain keeper before. Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid.

Jump stop <http://www.gvtc.com/~ngear/whatis.html>

Third Eye Chain Watcher <http://www.rei.com/product/9610812.htm>

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:59:35 -0500, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

(2) I'd suggest you change your derailleur, but not for another DA --
get the Ultegra. There is a difference in width for the triple, so much
so that the Ultegra will shift properly for all chainwheel-cog
combinations, while the DA may not work in the extremes, and may be the
cause of your present problem.

I believe that he needs a double and not a triple front derailleur. I
don't see the difference between DA and Ultegra.

For a triple, the DA is designed to shift a 53/39/30 and the Ultegra
52/42/30. The DA will tick the 42t cog when on the Ultegra crankset.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:48:34 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do (or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,
but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift it
back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This
caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday
and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front derailleur
is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a well-adjusted derailleur.
But not being able to shift the chain back on is very bad. Anyone have any
success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

I just installed a compact crank on a friend's Dura-Ace 9 speed bike.
I agree it seems more sensitive to dropping the chain past the small
ring.

I think I remember reading TruVative spec'ed the chain line for this
compact double at 44 mm, compared to age-old 43,5 mm per Shimano.

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread yet, so I'll say I'm
considering adding five thin spacers between the small chain ring and
crank spider. I figure if the chain wants to go farther inboard, then
that's where the chain ring needs to be. This would also bring the
actual chain line closer to the old familiar Shimano spec. Might also
help reduce the chain rubbing on the side of the big ring.

Item #WB-CS6 at http://www.loosescrews.com

As for the stiffer feeling during shifting, I've found energy drink
sometimes makes the cable guide under the BB sticky. TriFlow loosens
it up in my experience.

That really sounds like a broken wire or two on the inner cable. It's
cheap and easy to replace.

psycholist said:

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I
love it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I
do (or anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the
inside when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any
stopping it, but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't
just shift it back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by
hand. This caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training
ride yesterday and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

A few things that will help-

#1: As others have mentioned, if you've got a frame that will accept one,
there's no substitute for a 3rd-eye chain watcher of the alternative
jump-stop gadget. Your local bike shop should have them in stock, and it's
no longer considered uncool to have one... some racers even have them on
high-end bikes now.

#2: Trek has a gadget called a "chain keeper ring" that the chain falls on
top of if it shifts off the inside chainring. It keeps the chain from
getting caught up in anything, so you can easily shift up from it. It's
saved my neck many times. It was created for the OCLV frames, where a chain
dropping off the inside and getting caught up in the chainring spider can
cause a whole lot of damage to the frame. All it is, actually, is a very
thin large washer that goes between the bottom bracket cup and the frame.
Real rocket science, but it works!

#3: If you switch from a 34t (normal with FSA compact) to a 36t, the
problems seem to be considerably lessened.

#4: This may sound strange, but when I switched to Rock N'Roll (gold) lube,
I also noticed a significant improvement in the chain doing what it's
supposed to do when shifting from large to small up front. It's definitely
my new favorite lube.

Good luck; compact crank gearing is, in my opinion, way too good a thing to
easily give up on!

PS: Regarding the front shifting getting difficult, I agree with Dianne-
where the cable runs under the bottom bracket is often the source of
trouble.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Paul Kopit said:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:36:51 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've had the suggestion for a chain keeper before. Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid.

Jump stop <http://www.gvtc.com/~ngear/whatis.html>

Third Eye Chain Watcher <http://www.rei.com/product/9610812.htm>

I have Jump Stop and I love it.

Pam

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:48:34 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I
love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do
(or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,
but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift
it
back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This
caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday
and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front
derailleur
is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a well-adjusted
derailleur.
But not being able to shift the chain back on is very bad. Anyone have
any
success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

I just installed a compact crank on a friend's Dura-Ace 9 speed bike.
I agree it seems more sensitive to dropping the chain past the small
ring.

I think I remember reading TruVative spec'ed the chain line for this
compact double at 44 mm, compared to age-old 43,5 mm per Shimano.

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread yet, so I'll say I'm
considering adding five thin spacers between the small chain ring and
crank spider. I figure if the chain wants to go farther inboard, then
that's where the chain ring needs to be. This would also bring the
actual chain line closer to the old familiar Shimano spec. Might also
help reduce the chain rubbing on the side of the big ring.

Item #WB-CS6 at http://www.loosescrews.com

As for the stiffer feeling during shifting, I've found energy drink
sometimes makes the cable guide under the BB sticky. TriFlow loosens
it up in my experience.

Dianne,

My sweat is like the blood from the creature in Alien. If energy drink will
screw up that cable guide, I can only imagine what my sweat had done to gunk
things up down there. Great tip. I'll check it out.

Bob C.

"dianne_1234" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:48:34 -0500, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I
love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do
(or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,
but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't just shift
it
back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by hand. This
caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training ride yesterday
and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front
derailleur
is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a well-adjusted
derailleur.
But not being able to shift the chain back on is very bad. Anyone have
any
success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

I just installed a compact crank on a friend's Dura-Ace 9 speed bike.
I agree it seems more sensitive to dropping the chain past the small
ring.

I think I remember reading TruVative spec'ed the chain line for this
compact double at 44 mm, compared to age-old 43,5 mm per Shimano.

I didn't see it mentioned in this thread yet, so I'll say I'm
considering adding five thin spacers between the small chain ring and
crank spider. I figure if the chain wants to go farther inboard, then
that's where the chain ring needs to be. This would also bring the
actual chain line closer to the old familiar Shimano spec. Might also
help reduce the chain rubbing on the side of the big ring.

Item #WB-CS6 at http://www.loosescrews.com

As for the stiffer feeling during shifting, I've found energy drink
sometimes makes the cable guide under the BB sticky. TriFlow loosens
it up in my experience.

Oh, I'll check out the spacers, too. Sounds like you're addressing the
problem and not just the symptoms. The chainkeeper thing sounds good, but
it also sounds a bit like a bandaid.

Bob C.

psycholist said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do (or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Use a 'chain watcher' inside your inner ring and lube that
gear wire.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

-snip-

psycholist said:

I've had the suggestion for a chain keeper before. Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid.

Do you have a specific product name and manufacturer?

'Jump Stop' and 'Third Eye Chain Watcher'. We have both, but
so does any competent LBS, especially tandem shops.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while back. I
love it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I
do (or anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the
inside when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any
stopping it, but the real problem is, unlike on my old DA crankset, I can't
just shift it back on. I have to stop, dismount and reinstall the chain by
hand. This caused me a long and painful chase back on a group training
ride yesterday and ruined one target event for me a couple of months ago.

I'm about to abandon the compact crank because of this. I live in an area
with many short, sharp hills where lots of shifting of the front
derailleur is necessary. I know chain drops happen even on a
well-adjusted derailleur. But not being able to shift the chain back on is
very bad. Anyone have any success solving these problems?

Second question. My front derailleur has become very difficult to shift.
It takes some real leverage get it to go to the large ring. But cable
tension seems to be about right. It's all DA 9. Lots of miles on it.
What's the diagnosis and treatment?

Thanks,

Sorry to reply to my own post, but I just wanted to thank everyone who
replied. I have several good tracks to run on and I'm sure I'll be able to
fix the problem now.

Thanks!

Bob C.

Psycholist-<< I had an FSA carbon compact crank installed on my bike a while
back. I love
it except that, no matter how much tweeking of the front derailleur I do (or
anyone does, for that matter), it sometimes drops the chain to the inside
when shifting to the small ring. I don't figure there's any stopping it,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I say-don't abandon anything, put on a thrid eye or jump stop or someo other
chain watcher thing, aprticularly with shimano STI. Cheap and effective and you
will not throw your chain again.

As for 'force. make sure the inner wire is moving smoothly thru the housing, no
gunk on BB guide and the fder isn't gooked up somehow.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Psycholist-<< Unfortunately, each time
I search on "chain keeper" on the internet (or for anything similar), I get
a device designed to hold your chain when the rear wheel is off. It's
strictly a chain cleaning aid >><BR><BR>

I spout-a suggestion. Use that old fashioned thing called a 'telephone' and
'yellow pages', let you fingers do the walking, call a bike shop and ask. I
will bet they have 'em, just about every bike shop does.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"