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Race Director

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 December 2004
Last activity
6 December 2004
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ClydeEvans
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  1. I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups. Does anyone have information about automating this process.
    It sounds good in theory, but knowing what I do about information
    management systems, I have a number of concerns:

    We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
    results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
    get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
    winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
    registration, so I'm stuck.

    If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know. If not,
    I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
    into the results process.

    Thanks,

    Clyde

  2. ClydeEvans said:

    I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups. Does anyone have information about automating this process.
    It sounds good in theory, but knowing what I do about information
    management systems, I have a number of concerns:

    We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
    results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
    get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
    winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
    registration, so I'm stuck.

    If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know. If not,
    I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
    into the results process.

    Thanks,

    Clyde

    Clyde,

    The software our club uses allows databases from separate computers to
    be merged. The guy that does our computer stuff usually has a couple
    of folks with laptops entering the walk up data.

    But even then, it can get hectic if there are lots of walk ups. Once a
    race grows to a certain point, you have to abandon day-of-race if
    you're using computers.

    All our races are small, but we have one that's got lots of potential
    and it'll probably reach that point sometime. Not sure what we'll do
    then...

    Mike Tennent
    "IronPenguin"

  3. ClydeEvans said:

    I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups. Does anyone have information about automating this process.
    It sounds good in theory, but knowing what I do about information
    management systems, I have a number of concerns:

    We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
    results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
    get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
    winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
    registration, so I'm stuck.

    If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know. If not,
    I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
    into the results process.

    I've been to several chip-scored races where they had race day registration,
    but I can see why this could be quite difficult. Most of the places they do
    this are those using chip scoring.

    The way I've seen people "drive accurate registration info into the results
    process" is simple -- minimise the information you need to enter. For example,
    you need a unique identifier for each entrant (for example, a race bib). If you
    have age group awards, you either need to
    (1) additionally enter the age group
    (2) tabulate it later, or
    (3) encode age information in the unique identifier (e.g. by giving out
    different bib numbers for different age groups)

    Other information like names, addresses, etc probably should not be entered for
    every single runner on race day (unless you have a high capacity data entry
    operation) -- may want need to set it up so that you only have to enter bib
    numbers (and possibly age groups).

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  4. "ClydeEvans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups. Does anyone have information about automating this process.
    It sounds good in theory, but knowing what I do about information
    management systems, I have a number of concerns:

    We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
    results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
    get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
    winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
    registration, so I'm stuck.

    In reality you can't. Accuracy and speed are mutually exclusive goals.
    Unless you have an army of data entry people.

    Quoted message said:


    If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know.

    You could get a bank of computers with touch screens so runners could
    do it themselves. But sounds expensive to me.

    If not,

    Quoted message said:

    I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
    into the results process.


    Do the important entry first Name, gender, age and race number. After
    the dust has settled enter the other information later. the only real
    reason to have address and such is to send them information to next
    year's event. Therefore you've got a good 6 months to do the data
    entry.

    My club has a race in late April. We can get upwards of 150 race day
    entries. There is one woman doing the data entry, she is very frazzled
    by the end of the morning. We get it done. You should be able to also.
    At the very least hope for rain. You'll probably get fewer than 25 or
    so post entries in rainy conditions.

    It can get sticky when a post entrant claims they should have won an
    award. Then you have to go through the records.

    Andy

  5. ClydeEvans said:

    I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups.

    I ran a small 10k (the Loyola Marymount run for the Bay in L.A., I believe),
    and they had us enter our race number, name, age, gender, and maybe
    addresses on machine readable cards (fill in the bubble, I think), which
    they scanned and merged with their pre-reg database.

    It was tedious for the entrants, but easy for the race crew.

    -- Dan

  6. Cattle prods, and lots of em.

  7. Quoted message said:

    In reality you can't. Accuracy and speed are mutually exclusive goals.
    Unless you have an army of data entry people.

    Right -- "Good, fast, cheap: Pick two." Organizing a race, cheap is a
    given, so you just choose good or fast.

    --
    Brian P. Baresch
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Professional editing and proofreading

    If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

  8. "Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    But even then, it can get hectic if there are lots of walk ups. Once a
    race grows to a certain point, you have to abandon day-of-race if
    you're using computers.

    A compromise to get some walk-ups is to clearly state on the application
    that day of race registration will stop say 30 minutes before the race
    starts to allow the last minute data entry. Depending on past history of
    entrants and data entry this catch up time can vary.

    Quoted message said:

    All our races are small, but we have one that's got lots of potential
    and it'll probably reach that point sometime. Not sure what we'll do
    then...

    The answer is chips and pay to have the race timed.

    -Doug

  9. "ClydeEvans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm the director for a small 5k race, and I'm going crazy trying to
    make sure we correctly handle registration and results for so many
    walk-ups. Does anyone have information about automating this process.
    It sounds good in theory, but knowing what I do about information
    management systems, I have a number of concerns:

    If you have a small 5k race then why fret over the computer stuff race
    day? I think numbered index cards for a small race are ideal. By
    shuffling the cards in age group piles you can do the results
    immediately. Yes, you need to remind people to fill in name, gender and
    age and return the card. If they don't return the card you put unknown
    in the results From a scoring perspective all you need to do is write
    the times down as people finish. You can then do the computer stuff when
    you feel like it.

    Food for thought

  10. amh said:

    Do the important entry first Name, gender, age and race number. After

    IMO even names can wait until after the race -- it's easy to enter
    bib, age and gender (7 digits unless Doug is in the race), but names take more
    time.

    Whether it's a good idea to defer entering names like this depends on several
    factors (number of walkins, number of award winners, and the specifics of the
    system being used).

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  11. Doug Freese said:

    If you have a small 5k race then why fret over the computer stuff race
    day? I think numbered index cards for a small race are ideal. By
    shuffling the cards in age group piles you can do the results
    immediately. Yes, you need to remind people to fill in name, gender
    and age and return the card. If they don't return the card you put
    unknown in the results From a scoring perspective all you need to do
    is write the times down as people finish. You can then do the
    computer stuff when you feel like it.

    I like that. Also, those tear-off ID sections of the race numbers can be
    simply filled out and stuck on a board, and the timing tape put next to it
    for people to see their times. That's what I did when I ran the finish line
    for 400-entrant 10k some years ago. Many of the ultras I do (which are 200
    folks at the most) use a similar low-tech solution.

  12. "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Doug Freese said:

    If you have a small 5k race then why fret over the computer stuff
    race
    day? I think numbered index cards for a small race are ideal. By
    shuffling the cards in age group piles you can do the results
    immediately. Yes, you need to remind people to fill in name, gender
    and age and return the card. If they don't return the card you put
    unknown in the results From a scoring perspective all you need to do
    is write the times down as people finish. You can then do the
    computer stuff when you feel like it.

    I like that. Also, those tear-off ID sections of the race numbers can
    be
    simply filled out and stuck on a board, and the timing tape put next
    to it
    for people to see their times.

    Yes and no. If it's a hot or rainy day they get soaked and it's nearly
    impossible to write on and will only stick on a board with two sided
    tape. Been there, done that. 🙂

    -DF

  13. On 3 Dec 2004 04:38:40 -0800, "ClydeEvans" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    (some info snipped)

    Quoted message said:

    We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
    results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
    get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
    winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
    registration, so I'm stuck.

    If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know. If not,
    I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
    into the results process.


    Hello Clyde,
    You can automate race-day entry...but it's a matter of scale.

    First, you need to separate the pre-registered "packet pickup" from "race-day
    entry" areas. You don't want the same volunteers doing both functions because
    the lines can get very long and delay the data entry of race-day folks. If you
    only have around 100 race-day entries, you can get by with two or three
    volunteers handling lines of runners and one person performing data entry. The
    data entry person enters only minimal information: the runner's name, gender,
    age, and event (if there is more than one event). The computer automatically
    assigns bib numbers and prints a label for each runner (with the bib number
    bar-coded). We use a small Dymo label printer which prints these labels
    one-at-a-time. Another volunteer sitting next to the data entry person removes
    each label from the label printer, affixes it to the appropriate bib number,
    hands it to the runner, and asks the runner to "make sure everything is proper".

    Therefore, the organization of the "Race-day registration" table is as follows:
    - 2-3 people processing entry forms, taking payment/giving change,
    handing out T-shirts, and directing runners to the end of the
    table to pick up their bibs.
    - 1 person standing behind the above people to collect each entry form and
    carry it to the data entry person.
    - 1 data entry volunteer who enters minimal information into the database
    from each entry form.
    - 1 volunteer who affixes a label to each bib's tear-off tag and hands it
    to the runner.

    The person performing data entry is also the person who calculates the race
    results. Between the time when data entry is complete and the time when the
    first spindle is delivered. For a long race (like a half-marathon), the data
    entry person has time to go back through the entry forms and complete the entry
    of information (address, phone number, etc.). Our newspaper likes to print
    results that include City and State so a "results" file can be sent to the
    newspaper immediately after results are complete. For a short race (like a 5K),
    it may not be possible to enter all the information before results must be
    started...so the remainder of the entry form information is entered after
    results have been completed.

    The above system can be scaled-up the meet any volume of race-day entrants. If
    there are over 100 race-day entrants, I recommend have more than one data entry
    person. Make sure your database can handle multiple logins and you have the
    computers networked. We use MSDE (Microsoft's Desktop Engine) for the database
    because it can be distributed freely. The database can also be
    attached/deattached to Microsoft's SQL Server, if necessary.

    Of course, there is a practical limit to the scaling limit. I don't believe I'd
    want to organize something like the above for several hundred race-day entries.
    So, obviously race-day registration must be eliminated when a race reaches a
    certain size. However, the above system has allowed us to continue providing
    race-day registration as an option for the runners.

    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so) to
    register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
    earlier. However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by supporting
    race day registration.

    I hope I've given some useable information by describing the way our club
    handles race-day entries,

    Ken
    --
    Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
    Southern Colorado Runners Club
    www.socorunners.org

  14. "Kenneth Raich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
    to register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
    days earlier.

    Sometimes it's a matter of which way you want to gamble -- pre-register &
    know you're paying the $20 but you're not sure you'll be able to come to the
    even, or delay & know you'll pay extra if you can make it. I've done both.

    I've pre-reg for races that close early, knowing that I might not be able to
    run (another year, I didn't enter, & ended up injured anyway, so I saved $
    that time). I've made late decisions about whether or not to run, or even to
    do a different event. At least once I changed my mind because of the
    atrocious driving conditions that morning, & didn't go to a race that I
    hadn't pre-entered -- & I wouldn't have gone even if I'd already paid.

    I've race-day-entered when I didn't know before that I would be able to run
    at all. And convinced a friend to do the same, & he hadn't even been doing
    any training. I've skipped races I'd entered when I got sick a few days
    before (& walking to the kitchen was a challenge) -- once I had to take a
    month off & get back into things slowly, no matter what my "plans" had been.

    And sometimes I find that I can do another race on Sunday after all, feeling
    better than expected after Saturday -- but I don't plan on it happening that
    way!

    I'm sure there are lots of reasons, as varied as the population that
    participates.
    bj

  15. bj said:

    "Kenneth Raich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
    to register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
    days earlier.


    Sometimes it's a matter of which way you want to gamble -- pre-register &
    know you're paying the $20 but you're not sure you'll be able to come to the
    even, or delay & know you'll pay extra if you can make it. I've done both.

    I've pre-reg for races that close early, knowing that I might not be able to
    run (another year, I didn't enter, & ended up injured anyway, so I saved $
    that time). I've made late decisions about whether or not to run, or even to
    do a different event. At least once I changed my mind because of the
    atrocious driving conditions that morning, & didn't go to a race that I
    hadn't pre-entered -- & I wouldn't have gone even if I'd already paid.

    I've race-day-entered when I didn't know before that I would be able to run
    at all. And convinced a friend to do the same, & he hadn't even been doing
    any training. I've skipped races I'd entered when I got sick a few days
    before (& walking to the kitchen was a challenge) -- once I had to take a
    month off & get back into things slowly, no matter what my "plans" had been.

    And sometimes I find that I can do another race on Sunday after all, feeling
    better than expected after Saturday -- but I don't plan on it happening that
    way!

    I'm sure there are lots of reasons, as varied as the population that
    participates.

    Hi BJ,
    Thanks for the insights.

    It does show that races offering race-day registration perform a service to
    those in the running community that you describe. It is a shame that in some
    cases race-day registration has become impractical. The sentiment in our club is
    to provide this service as long as we can make it work.

    It is evident that a race NOT offering race-day registration will lose some
    entrants. There is probably no way to tell how many "race-day" runners will
    choose to pre-register when race-day registration is not provided.

    Ken
    --
    Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
    Southern Colorado Runners Club
    www.socorunners.org

  16. "Kenneth Raich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
    to
    register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
    earlier. However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by
    supporting
    race day registration.

    I hope I've given some useable information by describing the way our club
    handles race-day entries,

    Ken
    --
    Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
    Southern Colorado Runners Club
    www.socorunners.org

    To answer the question:

    1) Some people are on call and cannot plan as far ahead
    2) Some people find out about a race just before
    3) Some find that they are unexpectedly in town
    4) Some wait to see what the weather is going to be like (especially in So
    Colorado or elsewhere on the Front Range)

    I am sure there are lots of other reasons.

  17. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
    to
    register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
    earlier.

    For me the answer would be "weather". I've done all the mean, nasty, cold and
    wet races I ever plan on doing in this lifetime, so if the weathers bad
    screwit, I'm staying home.

  18. "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Kenneth Raich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30
    (or so) to
    register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
    days
    earlier.

    Many valid reasons and Sam raised a few below.

    < However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    supporting
    race day registration.

    They don't kick the price race day to make extra money but more to
    encourage most people to pre-register for shirt, food, drink planning.
    Or he corallary, if you kept the price the same regardless of when you
    signed up most will wait until the day of. This would make any planning
    impossible.

    Quoted message said:

    To answer the question:

    1) Some people are on call and cannot plan as far ahead
    2) Some people find out about a race just before
    3) Some find that they are unexpectedly in town
    4) Some wait to see what the weather is going to be like (especially
    in So Colorado or elsewhere on the Front Range)

    I am sure there are lots of other reasons.

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