OT: Bicycle laws

Phil said:

Riding in traffic on Monday, I tried to integrate myself into traffic as a
vehicle. As I sat in a left-turn lane, I said to myself, "Why did I ride my
bike if I'm only going to wait in traffic just like a car?"

I wonder if any of you that commute ever bend traffic laws: e.g. not
completely stopping at stop signs, running red lights when it's clear to
pass with no traffic, cutting through inter-building walkways designed for
pedestrians, etc.

Do you ever think that a policeman will stop and ticket you for traffic
infractions you may have committed on your bicycle, or do you think that the
police will turn a blind eye?

Probably all of us are far beyond the awareness level of the typical
driver/pedestrian while in traffic. Bicycle laws in most areas are there to
protect riders that do not know any better. Although this does not give us
the right to break or misinterpret the law in any way, is it so wrong to
ride a bicycle in an urban setting, threading oneself through traffic in an
effective manner to reach your destination faster?

I know there are liability issues in case there is an accident, and these
are mostly few and far between. In these cases, the law prevails and
whoever is at fault is determined through it. These situations would be
handled on a case-by-case basis.

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running a red
light with no traffic. In another case, I got a $96 moving violation ticket
for trackstanding at a stop sign. Gainesville, FL is NOT biker friendly
when it comes to this issue.

I commute by bike. I almost never run red lights but I run stop signs
all the time if there is no other traffic. I usually slow down though.
I stay off the sidewalk or other places where pedestrians go, unless I
am only traveling at walking speed. If there are cops around I follow
all the rules. I have not given this much thought, this is just the
way I do it. I guess my goals are to not [censored] or injure
pedestrians, not to get tickets, and not to get hit by a car.

The whole story isn't being told about "...spent the night in jail this
summer for running a red light..." Upon that premise, likely neither is the
other story.

/s/ Retired lifer squid-yardbird. (N/S 0989-028-5000) p.s., Really a squid
in training or just a wannabe?

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running a red
light with no traffic. In another case, I got a $96 moving violation
ticket for trackstanding at a stop sign. Gainesville, FL is NOT biker
friendly when it comes to this issue.

I'm with Jim... in almost every respect.
most of the motorists around here don't fully stop at stop signs..
I'm a big fan of "Same rights, Same rules, Same responsibilities"

Phil said:

I wonder if any of you that commute ever bend traffic laws: e.g. not
completely stopping at stop signs, running red lights when it's clear to
pass with no traffic, cutting through inter-building walkways designed for
pedestrians, etc.

I will roll through stop signs that I'm familiar with (so
I know it's a four-way stop and not a two-way stop) and red
lights at "T" intersections (if I'm on the "top" side of the
T). I'm pretty obedient of stops & lights otherwise (if you
and a car try to occupy the same space at the same time, then
99.9% of the time the car wins).

Quoted message said:

Do you ever think that a policeman will stop and ticket you for traffic
infractions you may have committed on your bicycle, or do you think that the
police will turn a blind eye?

I've never been ticketed, but I've been pulled over for
speeding (descending about 50 MPH in a 40 MPH zone) by a cop
who was mainly just impressed that I was going that fast.

Quoted message said:

Although this does not give us
the right to break or misinterpret the law in any way, is it so wrong to
ride a bicycle in an urban setting, threading oneself through traffic in an
effective manner to reach your destination faster?

Another aspect (and one which I would bring up to a cop if I
was pulled over and the situation warranted) is that given the
likely outcome of a bike vs. car incident, sometimes it's a
judgement call in a situation where you are being completely
legal but a sitting duck for any driver who is being the least
bit inattentive.

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running a red
light with no traffic.

Is there more to this story? Why not just a ticket?

Quoted message said:

In another case, I got a $96 moving violation ticket
for trackstanding at a stop sign.

Really? Are you legally required to put a foot down?

Quoted message said:

Gainesville, FL is NOT biker friendly
when it comes to this issue.

Wow, I guess not...

Larry Coon
University of California

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Riding in traffic on Monday, I tried to integrate myself into
traffic as a vehicle. As I sat in a left-turn lane, I said to
myself, "Why did I ride my bike if I'm only going to wait in traffic
just like a car?"

Because it's still more fun than being in a cage?

Quoted message said:

I wonder if any of you that commute ever bend traffic laws: e.g. not
completely stopping at stop signs, running red lights when it's
clear to pass with no traffic, cutting through inter-building
walkways designed for pedestrians, etc.

Yes, yes, sometimes.

Quoted message said:

Do you ever think that a policeman will stop and ticket you for
traffic infractions you may have committed on your bicycle, or do
you think that the police will turn a blind eye?

I always think it's possible, and I tend to not flagrantly violate the
law as a result.

Quoted message said:

Probably all of us are far beyond the awareness level of the typical
driver/pedestrian while in traffic. Bicycle laws in most areas are
there to protect riders that do not know any better.

Well designed laws are there to integrate bicyclists into the rest of
traffic. Lots of laws are not very well designed, and lots and lots
of roads are designed even worse.

Quoted message said:

Although this does not give us the right to break or misinterpret
the law in any way, is it so wrong to ride a bicycle in an urban
setting, threading oneself through traffic in an effective manner to
reach your destination faster?

Wrong in the Grand Ethical Universal Sense? Or wrong in the way that
cops and other road users look at these things? Or?

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running
a red light with no traffic. In another case, I got a $96 moving
violation ticket for trackstanding at a stop sign. Gainesville, FL
is NOT biker friendly when it comes to this issue.

I understand getting cited for running a red light, but not for the
night in jail unless you were inebriated or belligerent. Do they put
car drivers in jail overnight for running red lights? If not, then
their treatment of you was excessive and is an issue that should be
taken up with the appropriate authorities. The second is truly
baffling, if you were stopped that is all that is required. After
all, car drivers do not have to put a foot down on the pavement to
prove they are stopped. I hope you fought that one in court- a
trackstand in front of the judge should have been admissible.

Tim McNamara said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Riding in traffic on Monday, I tried to integrate myself into
traffic as a vehicle. As I sat in a left-turn lane, I said to
myself, "Why did I ride my bike if I'm only going to wait in traffic
just like a car?"

Because it's still more fun than being in a cage?

Yes, that's part of it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you ever think that a policeman will stop and ticket you for
traffic infractions you may have committed on your bicycle, or do
you think that the police will turn a blind eye?

I always think it's possible, and I tend to not flagrantly violate the
law as a result.

Same here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Although this does not give us the right to break or misinterpret
the law in any way, is it so wrong to ride a bicycle in an urban
setting, threading oneself through traffic in an effective manner to
reach your destination faster?

Wrong in the Grand Ethical Universal Sense? Or wrong in the way that
cops and other road users look at these things? Or?

Ah, I asked that open-ended. Mostly in the universal sense, as you put it.

The second is truly

Quoted message said:

baffling, if you were stopped that is all that is required. After
all, car drivers do not have to put a foot down on the pavement to
prove they are stopped. I hope you fought that one in court- a
trackstand in front of the judge should have been admissible.

Nope... a case here was upheld even when a fellow teammate on the college
cycling organization on campus demonstrated for a judge.

I haven't had a stop since then, but the next time I get stopped for a stop
sign, I'll ask the drivers putting their feet down question and see where it
goes. Often I lean way back, stop the bike for a fraction of a second, but
keep my body moving, and then release the brakes and get rolling again as I
pull up to a stop sign.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

From "Phil, Squid-in-Training":

Quoted message said:

I haven't had a stop since then, but the next time I get stopped for a stop
sign, I'll ask the drivers putting their feet down question and see where it
goes.

Downtown (given your demonstrated talent for turning on the charm in these
encounters). --TP

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running a red
light with no traffic.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Cam

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Cam) said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for running a red
light with no traffic.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Cam

Phil forgot to tell the Offica o de Law that he could eat 50 eggs!.....🙂

HAND

jebus-<< I commute by bike. I almost never run red lights but I run stop signs
all the time if there is no other traffic. I usually slow down though.
I stay off the sidewalk or other places where pedestrians go, unless I
am only traveling at walking speed. If there are cops around I follow
all the rules. I have not given this much thought, this is just the
way I do it. I guess my goals are to not [censored] or injure
pedestrians, not to get tickets, and not to get hit by a car. >><BR><BR>

I say-how about pissimng off car drivers. I try not to for a couple of reasons-
1)-they vote and even in Boulder, it's tough to get pro cycling agendas passed.
If ya [censored] the non-riders, they will vote against you, 'just cuz'.
2)-It always hurts to get hit by a car, I have, a pickup truck, and altho she
says she didn't mean to-on a car vs bicycle, the bicycle always loses.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

search:
www.naplesnews.com/

a peloton wound thru a burb(curves yaknow! we are curved down here in
fla, in fact one can stand near a curve and watch the pilote ram thru
on Satnight)
wound thru and wound thru and some old geezers blew their caffinated
corks on this and had
the entire batch of spinners busted for running the stop sign at $250
per
hey, get the roofing nails out....

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I wonder if any of you that commute ever bend traffic laws: e.g. not
completely stopping at stop signs, running red lights when it's clear to
pass with no traffic, cutting through inter-building walkways designed for
pedestrians, etc.

[snip]

Here in Denver it seems impossible to obey traffic laws. The two main
problems are: 1) actuated traffic signals that the city refuses to
adjust to sense bikes; 2) designated bike routes that frequently go by
way of the sidewalk and, without riding crosswalks or some other illegal
stunt, make it very hard to get back to a safe spot.

Phil said:

I wonder if any of you that commute ever bend traffic laws:
e.g. not completely stopping at stop signs, running red
lights when it's clear to pass with no traffic, cutting
through inter-building walkways designed for pedestrians, etc.

Never: there are no inter-building walkways anywhere near my commute,
and the motor traffic here makes careful riding dangerous enough as it
is, without any additional hazardous shenanigans.

Quoted message said:

Do you ever think that a policeman will stop and ticket you
for traffic infractions you may have committed on your bicycle

Not a chance: they have their hands more than full enough with the
serious traffic offenders in cars.

Quoted message said:

I ask this because I spent the night in jail this summer for
running a red light with no traffic. In another case, I got
a $96 moving violation ticket for trackstanding at a stop sign.
Gainesville, FL is NOT biker friendly when it comes to this issue.

From what I hear, the entire state of Florida is not biker friendly on
any issue.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

If you think Florida is bad, don't go to Mississippi. I once spent the night in jail for running a yellow light. No lie! I was just drunk enough to call the one legged desk seargent a peg legged son of a *****.