Proposed diet

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things can
change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic kj
should be about the same.

High day

Muesli 1100
Turkey sandwich 1000
Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
Bean mix 500
Apple/Pear 500

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Low day

Weetbix 900
Turkey sandwich 1000
Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
Bean mix 500
Orange/Kiwifruit 400

Total 3700 (850 calories)

That seem more like enough?

It seems like a starvation diet devoid of essential nutrients that
will lead anywhere but to good health.

"Wolfbrother" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things can
change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic kj
should be about the same.

High day

Muesli 1100
Turkey sandwich 1000
Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
Bean mix 500
Apple/Pear 500

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Low day

Weetbix 900
Turkey sandwich 1000
Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
Bean mix 500
Orange/Kiwifruit 400

Total 3700 (850 calories)

That seem more like enough?

It seems like a starvation diet devoid of essential nutrients that
will lead anywhere but to good health.

What is it missing? I'd be getting more nutrients from that than the [censored] I
used to eat.

"Ignoramus24200" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:51:15 +1100, Darkfalz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things can
change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic kj
should be about the same.

High day

Muesli 1100
Turkey sandwich 1000
Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
Bean mix 500
Apple/Pear 500

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Low day

Weetbix 900
Turkey sandwich 1000
Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
Bean mix 500
Orange/Kiwifruit 400

Total 3700 (850 calories)

That seem more like enough?

You asked for opinions, here's mine. If you want my honest opinion, it
is not at all reasonable to eat that little for a 280 lbs person. I
would be greatly surprised if you could stick with your proposed diet
for the long run, which is all that matters.

At 280 lbs, with the amount of exercise you are planning to do (30-60
min per day), you can probably do well by eating 1900 or so calories
per day, or even more, meaning that you would be losing weight
consistently and not be too miserable.

The only thing that makes me miserable is when progress is too slow.

"Ignoramus24200" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:51:40 +1100, Darkfalz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Ignoramus24200" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:51:15 +1100, Darkfalz <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.
>
> Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things
> can
> change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic kj
> should be about the same.
>
> High day
>
> Muesli 1100
> Turkey sandwich 1000
> Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
> Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
> Bean mix 500
> Apple/Pear 500
>
> Total 5300 (1200 calories)
>
> Low day
>
> Weetbix 900
> Turkey sandwich 1000
> Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
> Bean mix 500
> Orange/Kiwifruit 400
>
> Total 3700 (850 calories)
>
> That seem more like enough?
>
>

You asked for opinions, here's mine. If you want my honest opinion, it
is not at all reasonable to eat that little for a 280 lbs person. I
would be greatly surprised if you could stick with your proposed diet
for the long run, which is all that matters.

At 280 lbs, with the amount of exercise you are planning to do (30-60
min per day), you can probably do well by eating 1900 or so calories
per day, or even more, meaning that you would be losing weight
consistently and not be too miserable.

The only thing that makes me miserable is when progress is too slow.

Imagine for a moment that you lost weight and are at your desired
weight. At that point, you will have no progress at all! (other than
completing month after month of stable weight). Would you be bored by
that?

Of course not. I will be enjoying being thin again.

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Wolfbrother" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things can
change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic kj
should be about the same.

High day

Muesli 1100
Turkey sandwich 1000
Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
Bean mix 500
Apple/Pear 500

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Low day

Weetbix 900
Turkey sandwich 1000
Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
Bean mix 500
Orange/Kiwifruit 400

Total 3700 (850 calories)

That seem more like enough?

It seems like a starvation diet devoid of essential nutrients that
will lead anywhere but to good health.

What is it missing? I'd be getting more nutrients from that than the [censored] I
used to eat.

It is missing quite a bit. I doubt starving children in Africa would
trade their diet for yours. I eat 850 calories in one meal some
times. It is almost impossible to get optimal nutrient intake from
850 calories of food. You can greatly improve your diet by adding
some raw full fat dairy and coconut which also can help with weight
loss if that is what you are trying to do. Eggs would also add some
vital nutrients.

"Wolfbrother" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Wolfbrother" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
> Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.
>
> Here's a more complete plan I've put together. Obviously some things
> can
> change day by day (I won't eat exactly the same thing) but the basic
> kj
> should be about the same.
>
> High day
>
> Muesli 1100
> Turkey sandwich 1000
> Tuna salad + high cal dressing 1200
> Chicken vegetables & brown rice 1000
> Bean mix 500
> Apple/Pear 500
>
> Total 5300 (1200 calories)
>
> Low day
>
> Weetbix 900
> Turkey sandwich 1000
> Chicken with salad + low cal dressing 900
> Bean mix 500
> Orange/Kiwifruit 400
>
> Total 3700 (850 calories)
>
> That seem more like enough?

It seems like a starvation diet devoid of essential nutrients that
will lead anywhere but to good health.

What is it missing? I'd be getting more nutrients from that than the [censored]
I
used to eat.

It is missing quite a bit. I doubt starving children in Africa would
trade their diet for yours. I eat 850 calories in one meal some
times. It is almost impossible to get optimal nutrient intake from
850 calories of food. You can greatly improve your diet by adding
some raw full fat dairy and coconut which also can help with weight
loss if that is what you are trying to do. Eggs would also add some
vital nutrients.

Yeah thinking of adding two eggs on toast to the plan. But I'll see how it
goes first.

Darkfalz said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

High day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Quoted message said:

Low day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 3700 (850 calories)

I didn't catch what your current or goal weight is, if you posted
it, nor your activity level.

Several years ago, a whole bunch of us in alt.support.diet tracked
various calorie levels for a while, and most of the people found
they could lose weight easily at a daily calorie figure of 10 to 12
times their current weight (pounds). A smaller number of us, myself
included, needed to drop to 8 to 10 times weight in calories to lose
weight (yet I can maintain at 14 to 16).

Diet authors vary quite a bit on just how low in calories is too
low, but few suggest going below 10 times your goal weight in daily
calories, unless on a medically supervised diet.

If you wish to try rotating different calorie levels, I would suggest
you try your high days at around 10-12 times your current weight,
and your low days maybe 500 calories lower than that, but no lower
than 10 times your target weight.

From what I've read, after initial water weight losses, it's very
difficult to lose more than about one percent of your total weight
in actual fat per week, unless you exercise several hours a day.

Many plans promising several pounds a week loss are so low in total
calories and/or protein that you lose substantial muscle mass along
with fat. This temporarily looks encouraging on the scale -- but loss
of muscle reduces the amount of calories you burn, especially at rest,
so you would have a harder time continuing and maintaining that kind
of loss.

There will always be some muscle mass loss in dieting for weight
loss, but adequate calories and protein will minimize muscle loss,
and exercise to build muscle will raise your overall calorie burn.
Suggestions for adequate protein mostly seem to range from about .5g
grams of protein per pound of lean body mass for a sedentary person,
to one gram of protein per pound of LBM for an athlete.

--
jamie ([email hidden])

"There's a seeker born every minute."

"jamie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Darkfalz said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

High day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Quoted message said:

Low day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 3700 (850 calories)

I didn't catch what your current or goal weight is, if you posted
it, nor your activity level.

The guy weighs 280 lbs and wants to eat 850 or 1200 calories alternately,
exercising an hour a day. This all-or-nothing mentality is problematic for
many visitors to ASD (I notice they don't last long) -- I wish him well in
overcoming it.

Mary

"Mary M/Ohio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jamie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Darkfalz said:

Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

High day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 5300 (1200 calories)

Quoted message said:

Low day

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Total 3700 (850 calories)

I didn't catch what your current or goal weight is, if you posted
it, nor your activity level.

The guy weighs 280 lbs and wants to eat 850 or 1200 calories alternately,
exercising an hour a day. This all-or-nothing mentality is problematic for
many visitors to ASD (I notice they don't last long) -- I wish him well in
overcoming it.

Mary

Some of them would be absolutely frustrated with my weight loss rate. I was
just checking my Fitday numbers from the first of the year and I saw a slow
but steady decline in my weight. I've lost the grand total of 8 pounds this
year by simply making good choices most of the time and exercising. We'll
see how the winter goes since I won't be out on the bike as much due to the
colder weather. It is supposed to be nice Sunday (~50F) so maybe I'll try
out the new winter clothes I bought recently.

Beverly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The guy weighs 280 lbs and wants to eat 850 or 1200 calories alternately,
exercising an hour a day. This all-or-nothing mentality is problematic for
many visitors to ASD (I notice they don't last long) -- I wish him well in
overcoming it.

I did it last time, but was eating a bit more. Most of the calories came
from bread which I've mostly cut out now.

I don't buy into this [censored] that when your caloric intake drops, your body
would start using your muscle mass when you obviously have excess stores of
fat. That's like having a huge savings account, getting the sack, and then
they start reposessing your [censored] before asking for payments which you can
obviously afford to make. Ie. there's no point in saving fat for lean times
if it's not used when those lean times come.

If maintining it is the only problem then I should be okay. Three weeks now
and feeling fine.

Darkfalz <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I don't buy into this [censored] that when your caloric intake drops, your
body would start using your muscle mass when you obviously have
excess stores of fat. That's like having a huge savings account,
getting the sack, and then they start reposessing your [censored] before
asking for payments which you can obviously afford to make. Ie.
there's no point in saving fat for lean times if it's not used when
those lean times come.

I'll explain it to you in a simplified way.

A calorie is a unit of energy. (This is in actual fact a kilocalorie but we
use the term calorie across the board for simplicity.)

To burn a gram of stored fat requires ~9 calories of energy.
To burn a gram of stored protein (muscle) requires ~4 calories of energy.
To burn a gram of stored carbohydrate (glycogen) also requires ~4 calories
of energy.

Your body, just like most things in nature, will conserve energy when it's
required. When you do not provide your body with enough nutrients and
calories to maintain it's basic metabolic processes over a long period of
time it will turn to it's store of macronutrients (glycogen, muscle, fat).
To conserve energy it will use the macronutrients which require the least
amount of energy first. I'm not saying you won't burn any fat but you will
burn much more muscle than you will fat because it's less costly energywise
for the body to do that.

Yes, your body does store fat for the lean times. But it uses it only as the
very last resort.

To use your money analogy.......
You get sacked and are walking down the street to your bank to access your
huge savings account. Along the way you find a large bag full of money
sitting on the sidewalk. (Ignore the moral implications.) Do you pass it up
because you know you have a huge savings account stored farther down the
road or do you take that money and spend it first because it's easier and
save your savings account for when you run out of this easy money?

"Jeri" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Darkfalz <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I don't buy into this [censored] that when your caloric intake drops, your
body would start using your muscle mass when you obviously have
excess stores of fat. That's like having a huge savings account,
getting the sack, and then they start reposessing your [censored] before
asking for payments which you can obviously afford to make. Ie.
there's no point in saving fat for lean times if it's not used when
those lean times come.

I'll explain it to you in a simplified way.

A calorie is a unit of energy. (This is in actual fact a kilocalorie but
we
use the term calorie across the board for simplicity.)

To burn a gram of stored fat requires ~9 calories of energy.
To burn a gram of stored protein (muscle) requires ~4 calories of energy.
To burn a gram of stored carbohydrate (glycogen) also requires ~4 calories
of energy.

Your body, just like most things in nature, will conserve energy when it's
required. When you do not provide your body with enough nutrients and
calories to maintain it's basic metabolic processes over a long period of
time it will turn to it's store of macronutrients (glycogen, muscle, fat).
To conserve energy it will use the macronutrients which require the least
amount of energy first. I'm not saying you won't burn any fat but you will
burn much more muscle than you will fat because it's less costly
energywise
for the body to do that.

Yes, your body does store fat for the lean times. But it uses it only as
the
very last resort.

I read that it will use muscle as the last resort.

By your reckoning, it's impossible to lose fat without losing your muscle
first. Which is naturally ridiculous.

I'm decided I'm just going to eat anything I want (not junk, obviously) as
long as I stay under 10000 kj a day (2500 calories). If I don't lose weight
like that then I'll know I am eating too much.

"Darkfalz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The guy weighs 280 lbs and wants to eat 850 or 1200 calories alternately,
exercising an hour a day. This all-or-nothing mentality is problematic
for many visitors to ASD (I notice they don't last long) -- I wish him
well in overcoming it.

I did it last time, but was eating a bit more. Most of the calories came
from bread which I've mostly cut out now.

I don't buy into this [censored] that when your caloric intake drops, your body
would start using your muscle mass when you obviously have excess stores
of fat. That's like having a huge savings account, getting the sack, and
then they start reposessing your [censored] before asking for payments which you
can obviously afford to make. Ie. there's no point in saving fat for lean
times if it's not used when those lean times come.

If maintining it is the only problem then I should be okay. Three weeks
now and feeling fine.

But you weren't okay last time -- you gained it all back. What are you going
to do differently this time during maintenance? What are you in such a hurry
for, if you have to change your eating habits forever? What are you going to
drop to when you hit a plateau -- 500 calories? I just see the hallmarks of
the "how long do I have to eat this way to lose weight" mentality which
points to regaining.

You have said it yourself -- "This is how I did it last time," etc. etc. --
Well why *wasn't* it "the last time"? Weight loss without maintenance is
pointless--and the pain of regaining it all is too awful to contemplate. I
am willing to eat the way I do (under a nutritionist's care) as long as I
want to be at my current -- or even lower-- weight. I lost 100 lbs 19 years
ago and never gained it back -- have lost about 75 more since then and
gained a few back, but took matters in hand to get back under control before
things got away from me completely. It was the crappy fatty empty-carb food
that was problematic for me, so it just took a few weeks of completely
staying away from problem foods till I lost my desire for them.

A food plan is not nearly as important as the qualities which make us stick
to the food plan: Committed, Consistent, Patient, and Persistent (my own
motivational phrase that guides me). If I am slipping, you can bet that one
of those qualities is missing.

Perhaps you don't believe the theory (or as you put it, "this [censored]"😉 about
losing muscle mass -- but it is clearly just your opinion, and I wouldn't
put much faith in it. After all, how well did it serve you in keeping off
weight? If you asked my nutritionist -- a Ph.D. and research scientist from
Tufts University -- you'd get a different answer.

Mary M
325-165-145

"Beverly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Mary M/Ohio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jamie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Darkfalz <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Okay, I'm probably going a bit too low at the moment.
[snipped]

> High day
[snipped]
> Total 5300 (1200 calories)

> Low day
[snipped]
> Total 3700 (850 calories)

I didn't catch what your current or goal weight is, if you posted
it, nor your activity level.

The guy weighs 280 lbs and wants to eat 850 or 1200 calories alternately,
exercising an hour a day. This all-or-nothing mentality is problematic
for
many visitors to ASD (I notice they don't last long) -- I wish him well
in
overcoming it.

Mary

Some of them would be absolutely frustrated with my weight loss rate. I
was
just checking my Fitday numbers from the first of the year and I saw a
slow
but steady decline in my weight. I've lost the grand total of 8 pounds
this
year by simply making good choices most of the time and exercising.
We'll
see how the winter goes since I won't be out on the bike as much due to
the
colder weather. It is supposed to be nice Sunday (~50F) so maybe I'll try
out the new winter clothes I bought recently.

Beverly

And isn't it great to have lost those eight pounds this year instead of
gaining them? It's probably a whole pants size -- and as I remember, you
recently posted about going down to a smaller jeans size -- so
congratulations. You embody the four qualities I value most in weight loss:
Committed, Consistent, Patient and Persisent. I hope you get to go riding
Sunday! (Brrrrrrr)

Mary

thanks for being here mary.
i LOVE your posts!

rosie

"Mary M/Ohio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Beverly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some of them would be absolutely frustrated with my weight loss rate. I
was
just checking my Fitday numbers from the first of the year and I saw a
slow
but steady decline in my weight. I've lost the grand total of 8 pounds
this
year by simply making good choices most of the time and exercising.
We'll
see how the winter goes since I won't be out on the bike as much due to
the
colder weather. It is supposed to be nice Sunday (~50F) so maybe I'll

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out the new winter clothes I bought recently.

Beverly

And isn't it great to have lost those eight pounds this year instead of
gaining them? It's probably a whole pants size -- and as I remember, you
recently posted about going down to a smaller jeans size -- so
congratulations. You embody the four qualities I value most in weight

loss:

Quoted message said:

Committed, Consistent, Patient and Persisent. I hope you get to go riding
Sunday! (Brrrrrrr)

Mary

Thanks Mary. I think your four qualities are excellent and I've saved them
from your prior posts.

I have a lot to do around the house this weekend - clean, put out the
Christmas decorations, etc but I'm certainly going to try for a Sunday ride.
I can't waste one of those 50 degree December days on housework<G>

Beverly

Quoted message said:

This is not a crazy plan, actually. Very sensible and if you walk a
bit every day, you will be very likely to lose weight. Once you get
down to, say, 220 lbs you would revise your calorie amount downwards a
little. What junk will you be avoiding?

Anything high in saturated fat and refined carbs or other proceesed foods.

Anyway in just over 2 weeks, waist down 3 cm and thigh down 2 cm. No idea
about the weight.

Quoted message said:

But you weren't okay last time -- you gained it all back.

After 3-4 years... when I finished work and I was ordering pizza 2 or 3
times a week. Ie. it's no mystery why I put on weight again.

Quoted message said:

Note that most fat in meat is not saturated. It is dairy that has most
of its fat saturated. Here's a little table abotu how much saturated
fat is in meat.

Meat is good. I'll make sure to eat more.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is eating a meal with a ton of carbs and a
ton of fat/protein. Ie. you have your chicken with skin on, maybe stir fried
in olive oil, and a plate of rice.

In that case, I think the body would use the carbs for energy and store the
rest. If you only ate the chicken and vegetables and maybe a little of the
rice, you'd almost cut the calories in half and it would be a more healthy
meal. Even though the percentage of calories from fat etc. would be much
higher.

I'm not talking atkins here, I'm talking about with one specific meal. A
healthy meal probably becomes one that would cause you to gain weight just
by adding a few slices of white bread etc.

Quoted message said:

That's not a bad start.

Buying a scale would be a helpful idea.

I have a scale. It just stops at 115 kg.