titanium bolts.. source?

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts, stem
bolts, etc.

thanks charlie

srp-usa.comsrp-usa.comOpen ↗ , but you might want to call them to make sure they're still kickin'.

cambriabike.comcambriabike.comOpen ↗ has some too.

I dunno though, you already go fast enough without 'em. Are we going to have to institute a speed
limit at the Res? 😉

Jon Bond

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts, stem
bolts, etc.

Charlie: Friends don't let friends use Ti bolts in critical places. It's not so bad when a
manufacturer designs something with Ti bolts in mind, but even then failures are more common than
with high-grade steel bolts. If you're willing to use a torque wrench, it's not quite so bad.

Some would suggest that you can safely use Ti bolts in places where there's not much of a safety
issue, because the stock bolt is stronger than it needs to be. In the days of 25-pound road bikes
that may have been the case, but high-end modern road & mountain bikes don't carry much extra
baggage. If a fastener (nut/bolt) can be made smaller and still work, then it's probably already
been shrunk to a level where further weight reduction may simply be dangerous.

And yes, I've had a Ti stem bolt snap while sprinting. It's not a fun thing.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Try www.yoyodyneti.com They're a neat company that does lots of ti for motorcycles, so they may
have a selection of bolts in each size rated for different applications. And..... any company that
is named after the propulsion systems factory in the movie "Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai" is ok
in my book.

But, that being said, I agree with Mike J. At one time ALL the hardware on my 3 bikes was replaced
with Ti....and the ratio of Ti/Steel has gone back to around 50% since I found the fasteners had a
short lifespan if torqued/loosened/torqued over time and many of them still had enough elasticity
when torqued to allow parts to slip in the newer generation of under-engineered parts out there.

IMO stick with cool chi-chi's like aheadset cap bolts and Derailleur/Brake cable pinch bolts in Ti
(for example) and avoid Ti in any clamp areas (stem, seatpost, seatbinder) and BB Axles or Crank
bolts.... just in case.

Take care. Keith Pears

"The knack lies in learning to throw yourself
- at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams.

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts, stem
bolts, etc.

thanks charlie

Charles Beristain said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolt

You just need one bolt, singular. Install it somewhere non-critical, then see how much of a pain it
makes maintenance. You won't want to use any others. They're just not worth the trouble,

There's only one thing worse than a Ti bolt, and that's a Ti bolt in a Ti frame.

If you do go for it, then look up "galling" and how to deal with it before you start,

<< IMO stick with cool chi-chi's like aheadset cap bolts and Derailleur/Brake cable pinch bolts in
Ti (for example) and avoid Ti in any clamp areas (stem, seatpost, seatbinder) and BB Axles or Crank
bolts.... just in case.

Take care. Keith Pears >>

That's solid advice. I had a ti stem bolt snap while I was climbing. If it had failed 10 minutes
later, when I was screaming down the hill....gives me chills.

Robert

Quoted message said:

And yes, I've had a Ti stem bolt snap while sprinting. It's not a fun thing.

Bolt that compresses the stem around the bar? CP Ti (probably the material for most bolts vice
stronger alloys) is certainly weaker than good ole steel. OTOH, I think the only part I've ever had
break on a bike was a steel axle that was on an 8sp freewheel hub ... asking for that one.

R / John

Quoted message said:

I had a ti stem bolt snap

Me too, luckely it was in a very slow corner so i didn't crash. Replaced them with steel ones
after that.

"R15757" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< IMO stick with cool chi-chi's like aheadset cap bolts and Derailleur/Brake cable pinch bolts in
Ti (for example) and avoid Ti in any clamp areas (stem, seatpost, seatbinder) and BB Axles or
Crank bolts.... just in case.

Take care. Keith Pears >>

That's solid advice. I had a ti stem bolt snap while I was climbing. If it had failed 10 minutes
later, when I was screaming down the hill....gives me chills.

Robert

I got some from www.racebolts.com. Their prices we pretty good as well & they wre fast. SRP takes
6-12 weeks. I did not replace all of mine like the other mentioned as well & used anti sieze for the
ones I did.

Barb L "Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts, stem
bolts, etc.

thanks charlie

All thanks for the good advice ... I'll try a few.. ones that don't get removed very often. the
brake rotors have 6 bolts .. think that would be a safe application? I'm going to do it only on the
race bike.. which is only used to race.. hard usage but few hours.

and Hi Jon ... the "res" is a mud hole with all this rain... don't need any speed bumps to slow us
down. I just got a jekyll with 5" front and back so I can learn how to launch off stuff... so far so
good. It's heavy ( 28.2pounds) compared to the scalpel ( 24 pounds)... but it is great fun. Stop and
Play rather than Run and Gun. :-)

charlie

Jon Bond said:

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts, stem
bolts, etc.

thanks charlie

srp-usa.comsrp-usa.comOpen ↗ , but you might want to call them to make sure they're still kickin'.

cambriabike.comcambriabike.comOpen ↗ has some too.

I dunno though, you already go fast enough without 'em. Are we going to have to institute a speed
limit at the Res? 😉

Jon Bond

Member Help Community Leader

Yeah, I rode up at Pennwood and it wasn't as bad as I expected. I figure the Res is just getting
beaten to a muddy pulp though - too many riders not respecting that the trails need time to dry. See
a few in the shop (Central Wheel, working saturdays for now, hopefully more soon) after they've gone
riding, and try to get the message across - but most are pretty oblivious.

Anyway, if you want to save weight on your rotors, try stan's aluminum rotors:
notubes.comrotorsandbrakes.htmOpen ↗ make sure you get the brake pads too, otherwise
they'll be awful.

Other good places to save: Tires!!! Tubes (if its a race bike, try the stan's notubes kit or the
eclipse tubeless kit), seatpost (do you have a bunch still in your seat tube? make sure you leave
enough for min insertion!). I think SRP said you'd save maybe 1/2 a pound on your bike with all alu
and ti bolts. You're better off saving weight in other places for the money - chi-chi bolts are a
last resort.

try posting your specs on the weight-weenies forum at www.mtbr.com/techtalks ("save some weight"😉.
They make stupid suggestions sometimes "Dude, what do you need a fork that steers well for?", but
they are the pros at it.

Jon Bond

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All thanks for the good advice ... I'll try a few.. ones that don't get removed very often. the
brake rotors have 6 bolts .. think that would be a safe application? I'm going to do it only on
the race bike.. which is only used to race.. hard usage but few hours.

and Hi Jon ... the "res" is a mud hole with all this rain... don't need any speed bumps to slow us
down. I just got a jekyll with 5" front and back so I can learn how to launch off stuff... so far
so good. It's heavy ( 28.2pounds) compared to the scalpel ( 24 pounds)... but it is great fun.
Stop and Play rather than Run and Gun. :-)

charlie

Jon Bond said:

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone have a good source for Ti bolts ( for weight weenies)? disk brake bolts, rotor bolts,
stem bolts, etc.

thanks charlie

srp-usa.comsrp-usa.comOpen ↗ , but you might want to call them to make sure they're still kickin'.

cambriabike.comcambriabike.comOpen ↗ has some too.

I dunno though, you already go fast enough without 'em. Are we going to have to institute a speed
limit at the Res? 😉

Jon Bond

Member Help Community Leader

JOn I'm getting a carbon saddle ( selle slr) .. have a thompson seat post... had a carbon one but
crushed it and removed it before it broke... also need the post with a set back to get the cockpit
set up to fit me. removed the rock ring. tubeless tires.. 610 grams I think the seat post is the
only thing left before ti bolts. I even removed the valve caps on the tires <G>\\

do you know the weight savings for the ultra light ride on derailleur cables vs the standard ride on
cables? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

I emailed with Stan on the al. rotors... they don't come with bolts.. so i would still have to get a
set of those .. the rotors are $75 each unless purchased with a set of hydraulic brakes. .. then add
$30 for the brake pads.... so it would be ove $200 without the ti rotor bolts. Not sure i'm ready
for that cost.

charlie Member Help Community Leader

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JOn I'm getting a carbon saddle ( selle slr)

Nice, those are surprisingly comfortable too (at least for me).

Quoted message said:

have a thompson seat post... had a carbon one but crushed it and removed it before it broke...
also need the post with a set back to get the cockpit set up to fit me. removed the rock ring.

Good call.

Quoted message said:

tubeless tires.. 610 grams

Pretty good. There are some new ones out that are even lighter I think - red phoenix or something
like that. Not sure how they ride though. BTW, a lot of racers run like 30g of latex in each tire -
makes them self healing.

Quoted message said:

I think the seat post is the only thing left before ti bolts. I even removed the valve caps on the
tires <G>\\

So have you drilled holes in critical components yet? 😉

Quoted message said:

do you know the weight savings for the ultra light ride on derailleur cables vs the standard ride
on cables? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

poke around www.light-bikes.com . They list the weights of those things on the bikes a lot
of the time.

Quoted message said:

I emailed with Stan on the al. rotors... they don't come with bolts.. so i would still have to get
a set of those .. the rotors are $75 each unless purchased with a set of hydraulic brakes. .. then
add $30 for the brake pads.... so it would be ove $200 without the ti rotor bolts. Not sure i'm
ready for that cost.

charlie Member Help Community Leader

Definitely more expensive. However, you have a lot more of a weight loss/dollar vs. titanium bolts.
Plus, you've already got rotor bolts on there, even if they aren't super lightweight. Replacing all
those will save you maybe 25 grams (at approx $3+ a piece, it'd be somewhere in the nature of $40) ,
replacing both rotors will be considerably more weight loss - 150g or more. But yeah, they're
expensive 😉

Jon Bond

kapers said:

Try www.yoyodyneti.com They're a neat company that does lots of ti for motorcycles, so they may
have a selection of bolts in each size rated for different applications. And..... any company that
is named after the propulsion systems factory in the movie "Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai" is ok
in my book.

Yoyodyne is originally from "The Crying of Lot 49" (Pynchon was writing about whacked-out visionary
engineers decades before Wired magazine.) But this is Usenet, so you knew that. Once upon a time
people compared UUCP to the alternative postal system.

Quoted message said:

But, that being said, I agree with Mike J. At one time ALL the hardware on my 3 bikes was replaced
with Ti....and the ratio of Ti/Steel has gone back to around 50% since I found the fasteners had a
short lifespan if torqued/loosened/torqued over time and many of them still had enough elasticity
when torqued to allow parts to slip in the newer generation of under-engineered parts out there.

The properties of a material determine what it's suited for; a number of things make Ti a poor
choice for fasteners IMO (machinability, elongation, strength, galling). Here, steel really is real.

Jon Bond said:

red phoenix or something like that. Not sure how they ride though.

that's what i'm now using.. tioga red phoenix's... they seem sticky and sure footed so far... i'll
let you know at the end of the race season<G>

charlie

Member Help Community Leader

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon Bond said:

red phoenix or something like that. Not sure how they ride though.

that's what i'm now using.. tioga red phoenix's... they seem sticky and sure footed so far... i'll
let you know at the end of the race season<G>

charlie

Member Help Community Leader

Well there you go then. One more way to lighten the bike, and get better handling, although its
going to be expensive as all get out, and might not work with the scalpel:
progressivesuspension.com5th element.htmlOpen ↗ (halfway down)

Mmmm... 5th Element Air. Beauty.

Other small things to think about... some VERY small: Chainrings, grips, QR-->Bolt on, carbon
spacers + top cap, shifter indicators (cover the hole with a cut lizard skins carbon fiber frame
patch), cable runs (make sure they're short without being TOO short).

If you really want to cut weight: Put a road cassette on the back, with a road rear derailleur Two
front chainrings "Extralite" brand chainrings, seatpost collar, stem, seatpost, although some of
this might be "stupidlight"

Jon Bond

Jon all good stuff!!

My scalpel is already set up with a double chain ring setup... 29 and
43 ... integrated crankset on the scalpel 4000 .. and that is already pretty light. my low gear is
a 29-34 combo My friend has the scalpel 3000 that does not have the integrated crankset.. and
he switched to a dura-ace cassette and saved some weight... but he is very, very strong .. his
low is 22-25.

I already switched from my seatpost quickrelease back to the fixed bolt clamp.

maybe i can remove the grips and put some sticky stuff in their place?
<G>

I also could remove the rear shock lock out mechanism that is on the handlebars ... but i use it
quite a bit as some of these races have a lot of high speed fire roads as part of the course ( like
winding trails). same goes for the computer and heart rate monitor... I need them for lap times and
to keep the HR under control.

another thing i was thinking of is to get rid of the camelback and use a single water bottle and
have someone give me a fresh one after each lap... that would probably be the biggest weight
reduction of anything i've done... but i'm not ready yet to do that either.

charlie

Jon Bond said:

"Charles Beristain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon Bond said:

red phoenix or something like that. Not sure how they ride though.

that's what i'm now using.. tioga red phoenix's... they seem sticky and sure footed so far...
i'll let you know at the end of the race season<G>

charlie

Member Help Community Leader

Well there you go then. One more way to lighten the bike, and get better handling, although its
going to be expensive as all get out, and might not work with the scalpel:
progressivesuspension.com5th element.htmlOpen ↗ (halfway down)

Mmmm... 5th Element Air. Beauty.

Other small things to think about... some VERY small: Chainrings, grips, QR-->Bolt on, carbon
spacers + top cap, shifter indicators (cover the hole with a cut lizard skins carbon fiber frame
patch), cable runs (make sure they're short without being TOO short).

If you really want to cut weight: Put a road cassette on the back, with a road rear derailleur Two
front chainrings "Extralite" brand chainrings, seatpost collar, stem, seatpost, although some of
this might be "stupidlight"

Jon Bond

Member Help Community Leader

Quoted message said:

Andy Dingley [email hidden] wrote: >There's only one thing worse than

a Ti bolt, and that's a Ti bolt in a

Quoted message said:

Ti frame.

If you do go for it, then look up "galling" and how to deal with it before you start,

That's a good point. Make sure to get some anti-seize compound from whoever ends up
supplying your ti.

tim