Re:

On 28/11/04 11:57 am, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

Do you have any evidence that mouse traps are set for the pleasure of
killing rather than to eliminate household pests?

Given that the mouse exists, and that the reason for killing it is that it
is more pleasant without the mouse than with (for whatever reason, then you
are indeed setting the mouse trap for the pleasure of killing..

...d (who only has the 'humane' sort of trap)

On 28 Nov 2004 12:46:50 GMT, Mark Thompson
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

The whole "you can keep doing it as long as you don't enjoy it" thing seems
a bit silly.

Not really; I can see good grounds for believing that actively
enjoying killing, as opposed to doing it for utilitarian purposes such
as eating, is not a sign of a particularly healthy attitude.

The hunting ban has only one advantage that I can see: it has diverted
certain extreme right-wingers of my acquaintance from their monomania
about Europe :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

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Al C-F [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

Are you going to regulate and test these 'skilled' marksmen? I used
to shoot at University. Will I do?

Hence my recommendation for an evidence based payment scheme. That way
an unskilled marksman will soon give up due to a lack of funds. Although
I strongly suspect that if required to pay up front to have foxes
culled, many of those who currently denounce them as vermin would
suddenly decide that they could be lived with after all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Number of injured animals left to die slowly = Not a lot.

but >0.

Possibly, but likely to be very small. Just as some hunted foxes will
not get caught, but may suffer greatly from the experience of the chase
causing serious damage to their bodies and ultimately dying as a
consequence.

Quoted message said:

Nature is not as cosy as Beatrix Potter would have you believe, even
in the absence of hunting with hounds.

Although since a fox exists as a top predator within its niche, it is
unlikely to experience these things in the abscence of the hunt. As a
trained biologist I am more than aware of the nature of nature (Sorry!).
I am also aware that humans and their activites rarely fit into observed
"natural" life and thus their behaviour should be considered separately
from the behaviour of the rest of nature.

Quoted message said:

If you wound your enemy, he is incapacitated, as are the two men who
carry him back. There is also a considerable logistic element to
management of casualties, all of which detracts from your enemy's
ability to fight.

But we don't (openly) condone that level of warfare anymore. Hence the
international ban on chemical and biological weapons and the
justification used for the invasion in the first place.

Jon

David Martin [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Given that the mouse exists, and that the reason for killing it is that it
is more pleasant without the mouse than with (for whatever reason, then you
are indeed setting the mouse trap for the pleasure of killing..

..d (who only has the 'humane' sort of trap)

Or you can accept that the bloody things are around and that ultimately
mice are preferable to rats.

When living in hovels^H^H^H^H^H student accomodation in Sheffield we
discovered we had a mouse (He wandered out one night as we were watching
TV!). We complained to the landlord since there were no backs on any of
the kitchen cupboards, and they eventually boarded it all up removing
his means of access. At that point we discovered that we had a slug
problem and that the reason that we had never found teeth marks in our
food was that he was feeding off the slugs.

I learnt an important lesson that day!

Jon

Al C-F [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

As long as you can get the fox airborne, it is an easier target.

Foxes frequently stand still (Observations of both urban and rural
varieties have borne out this comment!). A stationary target is an
easier hit than a moving one. Still not sure why Mr Burns believes that
a fox is a harder animal to hit.

When I get some time I will read the report since I have a few friends
in the south with whom I occasionally argue^H^H^H^H^Hdebate this one and
it'd be good to see what the "official" line was.

Jon

Quoted message said:

Foxes frequently stand still (Observations of both urban and rural
varieties have borne out this comment!). A stationary target is an
easier hit than a moving one. Still not sure why Mr Burns believes that
a fox is a harder animal to hit.

But wouldn't you only hit one per shoot? You'd then have to wait around
for a fair bit until they came out again.

Back home a local farmer has a problem with a herd of wild sheep ruining
his efforts to improve his stock. Shooting hasn't worked as you get one
shot off and then they lie low for a few days/weeks.

We have also failed to keep the wild boar population from spreading. The
occasional appearance of stripy piglets at livestock markets bears this
out! Not sure if there has been any culling of them tho.

On 28/11/04 10:59 pm, in article [email hidden],

Jon Senior' jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

Al C-F [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

Are you going to regulate and test these 'skilled' marksmen? I used
to shoot at University. Will I do?

Hence my recommendation for an evidence based payment scheme. That way
an unskilled marksman will soon give up due to a lack of funds. Although
I strongly suspect that if required to pay up front to have foxes
culled, many of those who currently denounce them as vermin would
suddenly decide that they could be lived with after all.

Then we will have the tax on the fox farms...

...d

On 28 Nov 2004 23:42:17 GMT, Mark Thompson
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

wouldn't you only hit one per shoot? You'd then have to wait around
for a fair bit until they came out again.

How many do you think a hunt chases at once?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:34:25 +0000, David Martin
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Then we will have the tax on the fox farms...

YA Lord Vetinari & ICMFP :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University