Interval training with power

I suppose you could use the levels set out by various physiologists because you will be training what is required.

So how will you measure intensity? HRM I suppose. You could look up Karvonen on the web and apply the intensity factors from the MAP using Karvonen.

If you cant find anything give me a shout. [email hidden]

squidwranglr said:

I'm a (recreational) amateur triathlete who got back into cycling after a long hiatus at the beginning of this year. I've done two Olympic distance triathlons (40 km bike portion) and rode about 1300 miles up to his point in the year. With the off-season starting and a goal of doing a half-Ironman distance triathlon in early May of next year (Wildflower Triathlon), I've been lurking around the training forums to absorb through osmosis what I can about having a power-based training program through the winter.

Having said that, I don't have a power meter, nor do I intend to get one soon. For now, I am planning on mostly sticking to the known power curve of my indoor trainer (Kurt Kinetic Road Machine). I do, however, have a Polar S720 HRM with the speed and cadence sensors on my bike. I plan on (getting some help and) doing the maximal power test as described in Ric's article, but based on my triathlon and training times (and a bit of www.analyticcycling.com) I'd guess (based on 40 km TT is ~75% of MAP) that my MAP is about 300 W. I'd say I'm a slightly better than average climber and climbing is the thing that I'd like to improve the most, as Wildflower Triathlon's cycling course is a hilly (4000+ ft of climbing over 56 miles, with a couple of 1 mile or so climbs at 7+% grade and one 5 mile climb at ~6%). I'm a short guy (5'6"😉 and tend to prefer higher cadence (usually averaging 95+ RPM over 50 mile rides).

My big question is, provided I adopt zones based on MAP, how would I structure interval training around those zones? What should do on/off ratio be during different kinds of workouts? I went to Borders to thumb through Friel's "The Cyclists Training Bible," and it seemed a little bit "over the top" for the level that I'm at, I thought. If the right answer is that "yes, you must invest that level of understanding and planning," then I'll go do my homework, but I was looking for some starting guidance here.

I've been doing some interval training for the last couple of days (couldn't stay off the bike for even one day after my triathlon on 11/5) with the HRM data online in case y'all want to glance (the power values are *computed* based on the speed and the power cuve of the trainer, *not* measured):

employees.org1100070310.02530.srd.htmlOpen ↗
employees.org1100243150.03858.srd.htmlOpen ↗

Like I said, I'm open to any advice on how to incorporate power/interval training into my recreational cycling. I'm considering this whole past year a sort of "base building" and want to see where I can improve myself, the main goal staying "having fun" just the same.

Thank you very much if you've read this far! Seriosly! I must be in a rambling sort of mood...

Ric - a special thanks to you for sharing your wisdom so freely with the community at large, despite coaching being what you do for a living. It is, I think, very useful to those of us that are interested in cycling in a competitively recreational sort of way, to get free advice from those knowledgable in training issues.

Berend

Berend,

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not sure you can mix and match my zones with Friels stuff. We use different ideas and training methodologies.

Depending on the zones/intervals you're working the rest period may be immaterial. even on the higher end zones it may not be that important -- but it will (the recovery time) be dependent upon the goal(s) you have in mind.

It looks like you're doing intervals of 10-mins duration at TT effort?? These are possibly a little too short at that intensity to increase TT ability (you want 15 - 30mins), and possibly too long to build MAP/VO2max (3-5 mins).

to improve you may need to do a variety of intervals and base style work. what the exact mix of everything is will be beyond the scope of these forums. if you're interested in some coaching please give me a shout.

cheers
ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Depending on the zones/intervals you're working the rest period may be immaterial. even on the higher end zones it may not be that important -- but it will (the recovery time) be dependent upon the goal(s) you have in mind.

Does that mean that the recovery time should be more "by feel" and not by an absolute time (or ratio to the intensity interval)?

ric_stern/RST said:

It looks like you're doing intervals of 10-mins duration at TT effort?? These are possibly a little too short at that intensity to increase TT ability (you want 15 - 30mins), and possibly too long to build MAP/VO2max (3-5 mins).

Honestly, I'm just trying to get a feel for things right now. I've done almost no serious interval training before (most of my training for the two triathlons I did this year has been a random mix of road riding). Once the daylight hours diminished and I lost my ability to squeeze in a ride after work, all of my weekday riding got constrained to the trainer, so in a way I'm looking for having a training goal to be a part of keeping things interesting and not boring myself to death on the trainer.

As far as your comment on 10-minute intervals being too short for improving TT ability and too long for MAP/VO2max, are there general guidelines for what duration/intensity targets what kind of improvement? Even educating myself at that level would be very useful.

Also, is your definition of MAP inclusive of out of the saddle effort or the strictly seated pedaling power output?

ric_stern/RST said:

If you're interested in some coaching please give me a shout.

Ric, please understand that I thought long and hard before posting a semi-directed question to you because I don't want to abuse what you're doing on the boards. I think at this point I'm a tad short of a commitment that requires (deserves) coaching, but if I change my mind and give myself the gift of coaching as a New Year's present, you'll be the first one I'll call.

Thanks again,

Berend

squidwranglr said:

Does that mean that the recovery time should be more "by feel" and not by an absolute time (or ratio to the intensity interval)?

some intervals it should be short recovery, some intervals one to one recovery, and some intervals as long as needed (within reason!) to recover prior to starting the next workload.

Quoted post said:

Honestly, I'm just trying to get a feel for things right now. I've done almost no serious interval training before (most of my training for the two triathlons I did this year has been a random mix of road riding). Once the daylight hours diminished and I lost my ability to squeeze in a ride after work, all of my weekday riding got constrained to the trainer, so in a way I'm looking for having a training goal to be a part of keeping things interesting and not boring myself to death on the trainer.

there's a variety of goals you could do to keep motivated, e.g., 3 nights a week after work -- as this will be good for maintaining or improving fitness

or maybe riding on the trainer for as long as your favourite CD or while watching a movie.

or setting a goal such as ride at 210 W for 30-mins, or whatever is appropriate.

Quoted post said:

As far as your comment on 10-minute intervals being too short for improving TT ability and too long for MAP/VO2max, are there general guidelines for what duration/intensity targets what kind of improvement? Even educating myself at that level would be very useful.

Time trial intervals, one to three x's per week of 1 to 4 intervals of 15 to mins duration, are most optimal for increasing TTpower (and a host of other factors).

whereas, one to five x's per week of 3 to 8 intervals of 3 to 8-mins duration are optimal for increasing VO2max/MAP (and also TT power).

Quoted post said:

Also, is your definition of MAP inclusive of out of the saddle effort or the strictly seated pedaling power output?

i've lost count of the number of these tests i've performed, but i've never seen anyone get out of the saddle at the end. there'd be a high chance of the bike/trainer toppling over...

Quoted post said:

Ric, please understand that I thought long and hard before posting a semi-directed question to you because I don't want to abuse what you're doing on the boards. I think at this point I'm a tad short of a commitment that requires (deserves) coaching, but if I change my mind and give myself the gift of coaching as a New Year's present, you'll be the first one I'll call.

Thanks again,

Berend

it's no problem, i'm here (as is Michael S and Andy B soon) to give out some help and advice. however, i don't think there's a minimum requirement to take out coaching. in many aspects of life we have mentoring/coaching not just at the top, but also for novices. for e.g., if you set up a business you may well have a business coach or mentorer -- just because you're not a millionaire entrepeneur it doesn't invalidate such a relationship. having a coach helps you improve or understand or whatever at a faster rate.

ric