high maximum heart rate

pam_in_sc said:

I've done a
google group search and found lots of threads on various forums that
come to the conclusion that a high maximum heart rate is normal
variation. But I haven't found any references to medical articles.
Does anyone know of any?

You can try searching pubmed here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

pam_in_sc wrote:
|| I was proud a month ago to discover my maximum heart rate going up
|| the steepest hill I have ridden so far was 195, which is much higher
|| than would be predicted for my age of 49. My resting heart rate
|| (before getting out of bed) is 60. The Black Rose suggested we form
|| the hummingbird heart club and I found an article that supported
|| that it is normal variation (
|| http://www.athletictrainingservices.com/MHR.htm ).
||
|| However, my doctor wanted to check it out, and so did the
|| cardiologist she sent me to. And today I had my stress test and
|| flunked. The EKG showed that when my heart rate went above 170 part
|| of the wave (ST, I think) dropped out. Because of the abnormal EKG
|| I now have to have a heart catheterization to rule out a blockage.
|| The doctor does say it may be a kind of false positive that is
|| fairly common in women. I've always had good cholesterol numbers
|| and I felt great all the way through the test (and wanted to keep
|| going) so I find it hard to imagine that I could have a blockage.
|| But I will have it checked out.
||
|| If it turns out I don't have a blockage, the cardiologist says he
|| wants to put me on medication to reduce my maximum heart rate. I've
|| done a google group search and found lots of threads on various
|| forums that come to the conclusion that a high maximum heart rate is
|| normal variation. But I haven't found any references to medical
|| articles. Does anyone know of any? The cardiologist didn't give me
|| much time, but he didn't seem to mind being challenged, so I would
|| like to argue the point. If that doesn't work my other alternative
|| is to try to find a cardiologist who specializes in athletes
|| (assumably I would have to go to Atlanta for that) for a second
|| opinion.
||
|| Pam

Good luck with this, Pam. I hope you make it to Charleston, but obviously
you need to make sure everything is alright with you first.

I was originally going to mention my own experiences with max heart rate,
but reconsidered after thinking about it a bit more...

Quoted message said:

I was proud a month ago to discover my maximum heart rate going up the
steepest hill I have ridden so far was 195, which is much higher than would
be predicted for my age of 49. My resting heart rate (before getting out of
bed) is 60. The Black Rose suggested we form the hummingbird heart club
and I found an article that supported that it is normal variation (
http://www.athletictrainingservices.com/MHR.htm ).

However, my doctor wanted to check it out, and so did the cardiologist she
sent me to. And today I had my stress test and flunked. The EKG showed
that when my heart rate went above 170 part of the wave (ST, I think)
dropped out. Because of the abnormal EKG I now have to have a heart
catheterization to rule out a blockage. The doctor does say it may be a
kind of false positive that is fairly common in women. I've always had
good cholesterol numbers and I felt great all the way through the test
(and wanted to keep going) so I find it hard to imagine that I could have
a blockage. But I will have it checked out.

So far, so good. You've sought professional help for a potentially-serious
medical condition, and it's possible it may save your life.

Quoted message said:

If it turns out I don't have a blockage, the cardiologist says he wants to
put me on medication to reduce my maximum heart rate. I've done a google
group search and found lots of threads on various forums that come to the
conclusion that a high maximum heart rate is normal variation. But I
haven't found any references to medical articles. Does anyone know of any?

It's good to be informed, but keep in mind that any medical advice you get
here that contradicts your doctor is *not* to be given a whole lot of merit.
It may be something to discuss with your doctor, but beyond that? You're
taking your life in your hands.

Quoted message said:

The cardiologist didn't give me much time, but he didn't seem to mind
being challenged, so I would like to argue the point. If that doesn't
work my other alternative is to try to find a cardiologist who specializes
in athletes (assumably I would have to go to Atlanta for that) for a
second opinion.

Now we're back on-track. If you've got a tendon problem, sure, it's relevant
how others have dealt with it. But when you're talking about something as
serious as your heart, there's no safe substitute for a formal relationship
with an appropriate doctor. Your current cardiologist should be a good
resource for a referral to somebody specializing in athletics, and (as
you've already seen), they usually don't mind somebody looking for a second
opinion. I doubt that doctors who are 100% sure of themselves are the best
choice anyway; if I were doctor dealing with a potentially life-threatening
situation, I'd probably feel a lot better if my patiend *did* request a
second opinion.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

You might find this web site useful. It has lots of information
about heart disease, testing, and treatment:

http://www.heartcenteronline.com/

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

pam_in_sc said:

I've done a google group search and found lots of threads on various
forums that come to the conclusion that a high maximum heart rate
is normal variation. But I haven't found any references to medical
articles. Does anyone know of any?

Here's an article from the Journal of Exercise Physiology:

The Surprising History of the "HRmax=220-age" Equation
Robert A. Robergs and Roberto Landwehr
http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:05:42 -0500, pam_in_sc <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

my doctor wanted to check it out, and so did the cardiologist
she sent me to. And today I had my stress test and flunked. The EKG
showed that when my heart rate went above 170 part of the wave (ST, I
think) dropped out.

Well, maybe. My MHR regularly used to go up to 200 and more (before I
stopped looking) and I could maintain 185 for an hour or more with no
ill effects. Some people are just like that, I'm told. My resting
rate is under 60.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

It's good to be informed, but keep in mind that any medical advice you get
here that contradicts your doctor is *not* to be given a whole lot of merit.
It may be something to discuss with your doctor, but beyond that? You're
taking your life in your hands.

Quoted message said:

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

My experience with diabetes is that doctors can only monitor what is
going on on an every three months basis, so they think about control on
that level. But I can control my blood sugar on an hour by hour basis,
and avoid spikes that lead to complications. Doctors know very little
about that, because it isn't the scale on which they think and because
they don't keep up with the latest literature and because they think in
terms of what the average patient will do. In fact doctors have to
recommend the standard guidelines or risk being sued, when it is very
clear that medical research on diabetes has shown it is possible to do
much better than the latest guidelines.

From that experience, I'm quick to want to learn about other approaches
beyond my doctor's first reaction. My goal is to take my life in my
hands--I'm clearly going to avoid complications of diabetes longer than
if I followed the guidelines of the American Diabetes Association. I
evaluate carefully the risks and the quality of information.

Pam

Michael Fuhr said:

Here's an article from the Journal of Exercise Physiology:

The Surprising History of the "HRmax=220-age" Equation
Robert A. Robergs and Roberto Landwehr
http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf

Thanks! that is a start. I'm going to need more than that to make my
point to the cardiologist, and so far I haven't figured out the right
search to find it on pubmed.

Pam

pam_in_sc wrote:
:: Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
::
::: It's good to be informed, but keep in mind that any medical advice
::: you get here that contradicts your doctor is *not* to be given a
::: whole lot of merit. It may be something to discuss with your
::: doctor, but beyond that? You're taking your life in your hands.
::
::: --Mike Jacoubowsky
::: Chain Reaction Bicycles
::: www.ChainReaction.com
::: IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
::
::
:: My experience with diabetes is that doctors can only monitor what is
:: going on on an every three months basis, so they think about control
:: on that level. But I can control my blood sugar on an hour by hour
:: basis, and avoid spikes that lead to complications. Doctors know
:: very little about that, because it isn't the scale on which they
:: think and because they don't keep up with the latest literature and
:: because they think in terms of what the average patient will do. In
:: fact doctors have to recommend the standard guidelines or risk being
:: sued, when it is very clear that medical research on diabetes has
:: shown it is possible to do much better than the latest guidelines.
::
:: From that experience, I'm quick to want to learn about other
:: approaches beyond my doctor's first reaction. My goal is to take my
:: life in my hands--I'm clearly going to avoid complications of
:: diabetes longer than if I followed the guidelines of the American
:: Diabetes Association. I evaluate carefully the risks and the
:: quality of information.

Absolutely!!!!!

Michael Fuhr said:

pam_in_sc said:

I've done a google group search and found lots of threads on various
forums that come to the conclusion that a high maximum heart rate
is normal variation. But I haven't found any references to medical
articles. Does anyone know of any?

Here's an article from the Journal of Exercise Physiology:

The Surprising History of the "HRmax=220-age" Equation
Robert A. Robergs and Roberto Landwehr
http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf

Massive.

But, one good thing:

If it turns out she DOES have an acute cardiovascular problem,
at least the MRH data sent her in to look at it.

I generally keep an 85% safety buffer on stuff I can't
actually look at. If I'm only 15% sure that it's nothing,
I don't bother talking to my doctor.

I'm no hypochondriac. In fact, I can only remember being
sick enough to go find a doctor 3 times in the last 20 years.

I just don't screw around at even-money when death is on the line.

--Blair
"All Sicilians aside."