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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 November 2004
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jogger
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  1. I googled rec.running for this subject, but I could only find one
    reference to it by Mike Maxwell, so I hope this isn't a total rehash. I
    was reading a book earlier that contained this bit about the Inca empire-

    "The most reliable and unbiased of these chroniclers was a soldier,
    Cieza de Leon, who began keeping a record in 1547- fifteen years after
    the Spanish conquest- and stopped writing three years later. It provides
    a fascinating account, both of the flora and fauna of the vast territory
    and of the society there.

    There was one aspect of the former Inca state that Cieza found
    impressive. Across the imperial highways, many of them more substantial
    than the Roman roads of his native land, were to be found small
    post-houses, the staging posts for runners who carried messages across
    the difficult mountainous terrain, impossible for any animal to
    negotiate. These trained runners, called chasquis, were stationed in
    pairs at intervals of about a mile along the highways. Running at top
    speed and handing their quipus (type of message, my note) on from one
    runner to the next, as in a relay race, they could transmit a message to
    the imperial capital Cuzco from three hundred miles away in twenty-four
    hours. Given the terrain, Cieza noted that this method of carrying
    messages was superior to using horses and mules, with which he was more familiar."
    from "The Crest of the Peacock: by George Gheverghese Joseph

    -J

  2. << I googled rec.running for this subject, but I could only find one
    reference to it by Mike Maxwell, so I hope this isn't a total rehash. I
    was reading a book earlier that contained this bit about the Inca empire-

    "The most reliable and unbiased of these chroniclers was a soldier,
    Cieza de Leon, who began keeping a record in 1547- fifteen years after
    the Spanish conquest- and stopped writing three years later. It provides
    a fascinating account, both of the flora and fauna of the vast territory
    and of the society there.

    There was one aspect of the former Inca state that Cieza found
    impressive. Across the imperial highways, many of them more substantial
    than the Roman roads of his native land, were to be found small
    post-houses, the staging posts for runners who carried messages across
    the difficult mountainous terrain, impossible for any animal to
    negotiate. These trained runners, called chasquis, were stationed in
    pairs at intervals of about a mile along the highways. Running at top
    speed and handing their quipus (type of message, my note) on from one
    runner to the next, as in a relay race, they could transmit a message to
    the imperial capital Cuzco from three hundred miles away in twenty-four
    hours. Given the terrain, Cieza noted that this method of carrying
    messages was superior to using horses and mules, with which he was more
    familiar."
    from "The Crest of the Peacock: by George Gheverghese Joseph

    -J>>

    A nice description.
    Many thanks.
    Ancient ways,
    From which all modern '
    Technology
    Comes.

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  3. "jogger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I googled rec.running for this subject, but I could only find one
    reference to it by Mike Maxwell, so I hope this isn't a total rehash. I
    was reading a book earlier that contained this bit about the Inca empire-

    "The most reliable and unbiased of these chroniclers was a soldier,
    Cieza de Leon, who began keeping a record in 1547- fifteen years after
    the Spanish conquest- and stopped writing three years later. It provides
    a fascinating account, both of the flora and fauna of the vast territory
    and of the society there.

    There was one aspect of the former Inca state that Cieza found
    impressive. Across the imperial highways, many of them more substantial
    than the Roman roads of his native land, were to be found small
    post-houses, the staging posts for runners who carried messages across
    the difficult mountainous terrain, impossible for any animal to
    negotiate. These trained runners, called chasquis, were stationed in
    pairs at intervals of about a mile along the highways. Running at top
    speed and handing their quipus (type of message, my note) on from one
    runner to the next, as in a relay race, they could transmit a message to
    the imperial capital Cuzco from three hundred miles away in twenty-four
    hours. Given the terrain, Cieza noted that this method of carrying
    messages was superior to using horses and mules, with which he was more


    familiar."

    Quoted message said:

    from "The Crest of the Peacock: by George Gheverghese Joseph

    The exact figures cited vary. Some people will say they travelled the "1500
    miles from Quito to Cusco in 5 days," others will say they travelled "1300
    kilometers from Quito to Cusco in 10 days," "over 4000 kilometers from Quito
    to Cusco in 10 days," still others claim the journey took only 3 days.
    Stationed variously "every kilometer," "every mile," "every 4-6 miles," or
    "every 5-10 miles." But yes, there was an impressive system of roads and
    relay messengers such as the one described. Not sure why that's "goofy,"
    though. Certainly, it seems much more sensible than that "marathon"
    business. Though I'm sure there must have been many an Inca peasant who
    watched the chasquis flash by, wondering "This is my tax dollars at work?"

    Horses, by the way, are not that impressive when it comes to high-speed
    endurance races. That's why riders in endurance horse races spend
    considerable chunks of time on foot.

  4. "jogger" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    I googled rec.running for this subject, but I could only find one
    reference to it by Mike Maxwell, so I hope this isn't a total rehash. I
    was reading a book earlier that contained this bit about the Inca empire-

    A cherished childhood memory was reading "Runner for the King" by Rowena
    Bennett in 1944 (you can Google it and find used copies online). It is an
    illustrated story ( I am guessing about 50 pages) about a young Inca boy (a
    runner for the king!) who carried the quippa(sp) on a dangerous mission as
    he overcame a jaguar attack, enemies, mountains and injuries (and possibly a
    low-carb diet) to complete his mission and save his people.

    Quite inspiring and a great children's running story. Get it for yourself
    and your kids!
    --
    Les <SlowFoot> Stewart
    Beaumont, TX

  5. "jogger" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Running at top speed and handing their quipus (type of message, my note)
    on from one > runner to the next, as in a relay race

    From this web site (with a good picture):

    http://eefy.editme.com/Quipa
    "The quipa was used by the Inca to keep records. It consisted of a group of
    multicolored strings that could be knotted to indicate certain information.
    The quipa, which was usually made of cotton, was invented by South American
    Indians in pre-Incan times. When the Inca took control, they adopted it's
    use in administering the empire.

    The Inca recorded laws, sent messages, and calculated numbers using quipas.
    Some reportedly encoded histories or poems. The location, number, and type
    of knots, as well as the color of the string and the direction of the twist
    or tie all had meaning. Some Incan quipas have survived, but our
    understanding of them is incomplete.

    --
    Les <SlowFoot> Stewart
    Beaumont, TX

  6. "Les Stewart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "jogger" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Running at top speed and handing their quipus (type of message, my note)
    on from one > runner to the next, as in a relay race

    From this web site (with a good picture):

    http://eefy.editme.com/Quipa
    "The quipa was used by the Inca to keep records. It consisted of a group


    of

    Quoted message said:

    multicolored strings that could be knotted to indicate certain


    information.

    Quoted message said:

    The quipa, which was usually made of cotton, was invented by South


    American

    Quoted message said:

    Indians in pre-Incan times. When the Inca took control, they adopted it's
    use in administering the empire.

    The Inca recorded laws, sent messages, and calculated numbers using


    quipas.

    Quoted message said:

    Some reportedly encoded histories or poems. The location, number, and type
    of knots, as well as the color of the string and the direction of the


    twist

    Quoted message said:

    or tie all had meaning. Some Incan quipas have survived, but our
    understanding of them is incomplete.

    Quipu. Quipu. Quipu.

  7. "Les Stewart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "jogger" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    I googled rec.running for this subject, but I could only find one
    reference to it by Mike Maxwell, so I hope this isn't a total rehash. I
    was reading a book earlier that contained this bit about the Inca empire-

    A cherished childhood memory was reading "Runner for the King" by Rowena
    Bennett in 1944 (you can Google it and find used copies online).

    Hi Les,

    I'm always on the lookout for good books for the kids. Thanks for the
    recommendation. I hope the 1969 edition is as good as the 1944. I got it
    from Alibris.

    http://tinyurl.com/4plcs

    Clear skies,
    Roger
    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    R o g e r H e r z l e r <><
    "What the country needs is dirtier fingernails
    and cleaner minds." -Will Rogers (1879-1935)
    journey through your universe: http://astronomylinks.com/
    NOTE: Incoming e-mail with .ZIP and .EXE attachments are
    automatically deleted.

  8. The Quipu, an Incan Data Structure

    In Ethnomathematics Marcia Ascher write the following about Incas the
    the quipu.
    The Incas can be characterized as methodical, highly organized,
    concerned with detail, and intensive data users. The Inca bureaucracy
    continuously monitored the areas under its control. They received many
    messages and sent many instructions daily. The messages included details
    of resources such as items that were needed or available in sotrehouses,
    taxes owed or collecte,d encsus information, the output of mines, or the
    composition of work forces. The messages were transmitted rapaidly using
    the extensive road system via a simple, but effective, system of
    runners... The message had to be clear, compact, and partable.
    Quipu-makers were responsible for encoding and decoding the information.
    A quipu is an assemblage of colored knotted cotton cords... The colors
    of the cords, the way the cords are connected together, the relative
    placement of the cords, the spaces between the cords, the types of knots
    on the individual cords, and the relative placement of the knots are all
    part of the logical-numerical recording. (p.17)
    The Code of the Quipu: A Study in Media, Mathematics, and Culture by M.
    Ascher and R. Ascher is an extensive elaboration of the
    logical-numerical system of the quipu. With great detail, this system
    described, compared to the ways data is stored electronically in the
    20th century, and for the practicaly and cultural purposes which it
    served, the quipu is not found wanting. An interesting study to
    undertake in depth.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,
    FabulustRunner <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The Quipu, an Incan Data Structure

    Internet looney post 2. Yes, I'm going to count them.

    Best take your socks off. You're going to run out of fingers very soon.
    --
    Mel Rimmer

  10. Quoted message said:

    The Quipu, an Incan Data Structure

    Internet looney post 2. Yes, I'm going to count them.

  11. Air Force report calls for $7.5M to study psychic teleportation
    http://news.yahoo.com/news/
    by Dan Vergano -- Star Trek fans may be happy to hear that the Air Force
    has paid to study psychic teleportation. But scientists aren't so
    thrilled.
    The Air Force Research Lab's August "Teleportation Physics Report,"
    posted earlier this week on the Federation of American Scientists (FAS)
    Web site, struck a raw nerve with physicists and critics of wasteful
    military spending.
    In the report, author Eric Davis says psychic teleportation, moving
    yourself from location to location through mind powers, is "quite real
    and can be controlled." The 88-page report also reviews a range of
    teleportation concepts and experiments:
    • Quantum teleportation, a technique demonstrated in the last decade
    that shifts the characteristics, but not the location, of sub-atomic
    particles at great distances.
    • Wormholes, a highly theoretical possibility whereby the intense
    gravitational field near black holes could rip open entrances to distant
    locales.
    • Psychokinesis, or psychic teleportation. In support of the idea, the
    report cites UFO reports, Soviet and Chinese studies of psychics and
    U.S. military studies of spoon-bending phenomena.
    "It is in large part crackpot physics," says physicist Lawrence Krauss
    of Case Western Reserve University, author of "The Physics of Star
    Trek", a book detailing the physical limits that prevent teleportation.
    He describes the Air Force report as "some things adapted from
    reasonable theoretical studies, and other things from nonsensical ones."
    Some experts have long criticized what they see as a military sweet
    tooth for junk science. A "remote viewing" project, for example,
    undertaken by defense intelligence services and declassified in 1994,
    sought to see whether psychic powers could be employed to spy on the
    Soviet Union. The teleportation report "raises questions of scientific
    quality control at the Air Force," the FAS' Steven Aftergood says.
    Davis, a physicist with Warp Drive Metrics of Las Vegas, couldn't be
    reached for comment. The Air Force paid $25,000 for the report, part of
    a $20.5 million advanced rocket and missile design contract. The report
    calls for $7.5 million to conduct psychic teleportation experiments.
    "The views expressed in the report are those of the author and do not
    necessarily reflect the official policy of the Air Force, the Department
    of Defense or the U.S. Government," says an Air Force Research Lab
    (AFRL) statement sent to USA TODAY. "There are no plans by the AFRL
    Propulsion Directorate for additional funding on this contract."
    Explaining why the lab sponsored the study, AFRL spokesman Ranney Adams
    said, "If we don't turn over stones, we don't know if we have missed
    something."
      Philosophers.
    Dean, to the physics department.
              "Why do I always have to give you guys so
    much money, for laboratories and expensive equipment and stuff. Why
    couldn't you be like the math department - all they need is money for
    pencils, paper and waste-paper baskets. Or even better, like the
    philosophy department. All they need are pencils and paper.".......what
    no baskets........
                                    The
    First Law of Philosophy: For every philosopher, there exists an equal
    and opposite philosopher. The Second Law of Philosophy:
    They're both wrong.
          Descartes is sitting in a bar, having a drink. The
    bartender asks him if he would like another. "I think not," he says and
    vanishes in a puff of logic.
    What is Mind? No Matter.
    What is Body? Never Mind.
                The French existentialist Jean-Paul
    Sartre was sitting in a cafe when a waitress approached him: "Can I get
    you something to drink, Monsieur Sartre?"
    Sartre replied, "Yes, I'd like a cup of coffee with sugar, but no
    cream".
    Nodding agreement, the waitress walked off to fill the order and Sartre
    returned to working. A few minutes later, however, the waitress returned
    and said, "I'm sorry, Monsieur Sartre, we are all out of cream -- how
    about with no milk?"
              A boy is about to go on his first date,
    and is nervous about what to talk about. He asks his father for advice.
    The father replies: "My son, there are three subjects that always work.
    These are food, family, and philosophy."
    The boy picks up his date and they go to a soda fountain. Ice cream
    sodas in front of them, they stare at each other for a long time, as the
    boy's nervousness builds. He remembers his father's advice, and chooses
    the first topic. He asks the girl: "Do you like potato pancakes?" She
    says "No," and the silence returns.
    After a few more uncomfortable minutes, the boy thinks of his father's
    suggestion and turns to the second item on the list. He asks, "Do you
    have a brother?" Again, the girl says "No" and there is silence once
    again.
    The boy then plays his last card. He thinks of his father's advice and
    asks the girl the following question: "If you had a brother, would he
    like potato pancakes?"
                I passed my ethics exam. Of course
    I've cheated. Philosophy is a game with objectives and no rules.
    Mathematics is a game with rules and no objectives. Theology is a game
    whose object is to bring rules into the subjective.
            A renowned philosopher was held in high regard
    by his driver, who listened in awe at every speech while his boss would
    easily answer questions about morality and ethics.
    One more final exam:
    Q: Is this a question?
    A: If this is an answer!
          A philosopher went into a closet for ten years to
    contemplate the
    question, What is life? When he came out, he went into the street and
    met an old colleague, who asked him where in heaven's name he had been
    all those years.
    "In a closet," he repied. "I wanted to know what life really is." "And
    have you found an answer?"
    "Yes," he replied. "I think it can best be expressed by saying that life
    is like a bridge."
    "That's all well and good," replied the colleage, "but can you be a
    little more explicit? Can you tell me how life is like a bridge?" "Oh,"
    replied the philosopher after some thought, "maybe you're right; perhaps
    life is not like a bridge."
    Raymod Smullyan, "5000 B.C."
                Two freshman philosophy students see
    the following bulletin posted on the wall of their lecture hall:
    Crash Course in Logical Assumptions All Day
    Neither of them knows what it means and they are both curious. The pair
    decide to find the professor and ask some questions. When they locate
    the professor's office, the bolder of the two enter the building while
    the other remains outside.
    Student: "Uh...Sir..What does Crash Course in Logical Assumptions mean?"
    Professor: "Well, it involves taking information that you have, forming
    assumptions using logic, and then creating new information. Let me try
    to answer your question by asking you a question. Do you own a car?"
    Student: "Uh...Yes, I do." Professor: "Well, then I can now logically
    assume that you drive." Student: "Yes, I drive. " Professor: "Then I can
    logically assume that you drive on weekends." Student: "Yeah, I drive on
    weekends, I go out on dates." Professor: "Then I can logically assume
    that you have date partners." Student: "Well, yes, I have a girlfriend."
    Professor: "Then I can logically assume that you are heterosexual."
    Student: "Uh...hell yes! OK, I think I understand what this course is
    about now. Thanks a lot for your time."
    Once back outside, his friend asks him: "So, what's it all about?" "Its
    about using information and stuff...Let me answer your question by
    asking you a question. Do you own a car?" "No."
    "Uh...Then you're homosexual, dude!"
    Don't LOOK at anything in a physics lab. Don't TASTE anything in a
    chemistry lab. Don't SMELL anything in a biology lab.
    Don't TOUCH anything in a medical lab.
    and, most importantly,
    Don't LISTEN to anything in a philosophy department.       The
    point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as
    to seem not worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that
    no one will believe it.
              Graduate student lends his advisor a book
    on tensed logic by Arthur
    N. Prior. Advisor reads it, then tells his student that he dropped it
    off in the student's mail box. Moments later the student returns, and
    breathlessly exclaims: "Professor, professor. Someone's stolen my
    Prior."
    To which the professor sagely replies: "You're lucky around this
    department they haven't stolen your posterior."
     How philosophers do it...
     Philosophers do it deeper.
    Philosophers do it a posteriori.
    Philosophers do it consistently.
    Philosophers do it conceptually.
    Philosophers do it for pure reasons.
    Philosophers do it with their minds.
    Philosophers think about doing it.
    Philosophers wonder why they did it.
    How many philosophers does it take to change a light bulb? "Hmmm... well
    there's an interesting question isn't it?" "Define 'light bulb'..."
      "How can you be sure it needs changing?" Three. One to change it
    and two to stand around arguing over whether or
    not the light bulb exists.
    How many Hegelians does it take to change a light bulb? Two, of course.
    One stands at one end of the room and argues that it
    isn't dark; the other stands at the other end and says that true light
    is impossible. This dialectic creates a synthesis which does the job.
    How many Zen masters does it take to change a light bulb?
      Two. One to change it, and one not to change it. Three. One to
    change it, one not to change it, and one both to change
    it and not to change it.
    How many existentialists does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One
    to change the lightbulb and one to observe how the lightbulb
    symbolizes an incandescent beacon of subjectivity in a netherworld of
    Cosmic Nothingness.
    How many Kuhnian constructionist philosophers of science does it take to
    change a light bulb?
      You're still thinking in terms of 'incremental change'--what we
    really need is paradigm shift...we don't need a bulb with more
    attributes added on, we need ubiquitous luminescence.
    How many Marxists does it take to change a light bulb? None. Every light
    bulb contains the seeds of its own revolution.

  12. DrLith said:


    The exact figures cited vary.

    I was wondering how accurate the ones provided in my book were, thanks
    for providing more details.

    Quoted message said:

    Not sure why that's "goofy," though.

    The actual system wasn't goofy- my post about it to rec.running, amidst
    all the posts about pacing calculations and nutritional discussions, I
    considered a little goofy.

    Quoted message said:

    Certainly, it seems much more sensible than that "marathon"
    business.

    Yes, this is what I was thinking too 🙂

    -J

  13. Les Stewart said:

    From this web site (with a good picture):

    http://eefy.editme.com/Quipa

    Thanks for the picture, hadn't seen a real life example yet.

    Yep, the book I was reading is mostly about non-European mathematics, so
    it was discussing quipus & their use and merely mentioned the Inca
    messenger system in passing.

    Also, thanks for telling me about the children's book, that's cool 🙂

    -J

  14. "Roger Herzler" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Hi Les,

    I'm always on the lookout for good books for the kids. Thanks for the
    recommendation. I hope the 1969 edition is as good as the 1944. I got it
    from Alibris.

    I'm sure it will be the same. As an aside, my father who is a biologist, was
    on an archeology dig in the early 60s and always laughed about how he
    impressed his Inca specialist colleagues with some of his knowledge of the
    Inca which he got from reading Runner for the King to me a hundred times!

    --
    Les <SlowFoot> Stewart
    Beaumont, TX

  15. Quoted message said:

    Best take your socks off. You're going to run out of fingers very soon.

    LOL Yeah I lost count rapidly.

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