Spoke Quality Control

"John Everett" <[email hidden]> skrev i en
meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So my questions are, 1) what spoke manufacturer has an "N" on the
heads of all their spokes? Whoever they are, their quality control
stinks. 2) How ham-handed are the people and machines that build
wheels with these components? The original nipples must have been
forced onto the spokes with pretty significant torque.

Is it possible, that whoever build the wheel, used good spokes that were too
long, and then filed or cut them down to size?
Ivar.

John Everett said:

As I indicated in a previous article, the rear wheel of my Fuji
touring bike got tacoed in a vehicle crash. I've pretty much
determined that a replacement Alex DA16 rim (700c, 36 spoke) just
isn't available in the US. Before getting a new rim and rebuilding the
wheel I decided to try an experiment. I removed the rim and by
judicious manipulation (mostly propping the rim on the leg of my
workstand and bouncing up and down on the high spots) I managed to get
it pretty flat again. I decided to try rebuilding with the old spokes,
but new nipples. So off to my LBS to buy some 2.0mm (14 gauge)
nipples. Surprise, surprise, we couldn't manage to get nipples to
thread onto about a third of the spokes.

Mr. LBS said something about the spokes being damaged in the crash, or
perhaps being of different sizes, and suggested replacing them. I
thought, "if I'm about to spend the money for new spokes, I might as
well replace the rim." Since a new rim would probably not have the
same ERD as the Alex, and I haven't even thought about what brand to
go with, I left the store without purchasing anything.

I got home and started thinking about it. How could stainless steel
threads be damaged by brass nipples, no matter how much force was
applied? So first I measured the diameter of all the spokes (2.0mm
all) then got out my magnifying glass and examined the spoke ends
carefully. Turns out the thread rolling process left flashing hanging
off the ends of many of the spokes. A little work with a fine file and
I can now get nipples onto all of the spokes.

So my questions are, 1) what spoke manufacturer has an "N" on the
heads of all their spokes? Whoever they are, their quality control
stinks. 2) How ham-handed are the people and machines that build
wheels with these components? The original nipples must have been
forced onto the spokes with pretty significant torque.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I think Chun Nan (see http://www.cnspoke.com/) used to have N on the
spoke head. Now it looks like they've changed to CN.

I've noticed on some machine laced wheels the last thread or two can
become mashed on some spokes. I think it might be the lacing robot: as
the "screwdriver" finishes engaging the nipple it may rub the threads.
For one robot see http://www.bmd.nl/wh/wh_uk_lacing_cc2.htm

I too have found the threads work fine after cleaning up the ends.

dianne_1234 said:

John Everett said:

As I indicated in a previous article, the rear wheel of my Fuji
touring bike got tacoed in a vehicle crash. I've pretty much
determined that a replacement Alex DA16 rim (700c, 36 spoke) just
isn't available in the US. Before getting a new rim and rebuilding the
wheel I decided to try an experiment. I removed the rim and by
judicious manipulation (mostly propping the rim on the leg of my
workstand and bouncing up and down on the high spots) I managed to get
it pretty flat again. I decided to try rebuilding with the old spokes,
but new nipples. So off to my LBS to buy some 2.0mm (14 gauge)
nipples. Surprise, surprise, we couldn't manage to get nipples to
thread onto about a third of the spokes.

Mr. LBS said something about the spokes being damaged in the crash, or
perhaps being of different sizes, and suggested replacing them. I
thought, "if I'm about to spend the money for new spokes, I might as
well replace the rim." Since a new rim would probably not have the
same ERD as the Alex, and I haven't even thought about what brand to
go with, I left the store without purchasing anything.

I got home and started thinking about it. How could stainless steel
threads be damaged by brass nipples, no matter how much force was
applied? So first I measured the diameter of all the spokes (2.0mm
all) then got out my magnifying glass and examined the spoke ends
carefully. Turns out the thread rolling process left flashing hanging
off the ends of many of the spokes. A little work with a fine file and
I can now get nipples onto all of the spokes.

So my questions are, 1) what spoke manufacturer has an "N" on the
heads of all their spokes? Whoever they are, their quality control
stinks. 2) How ham-handed are the people and machines that build
wheels with these components? The original nipples must have been
forced onto the spokes with pretty significant torque.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I think Chun Nan (see http://www.cnspoke.com/) used to have N on the
spoke head. Now it looks like they've changed to CN.

I've noticed on some machine laced wheels the last thread or two can
become mashed on some spokes. I think it might be the lacing robot: as
the "screwdriver" finishes engaging the nipple it may rub the threads.
For one robot see http://www.bmd.nl/wh/wh_uk_lacing_cc2.htm

I too have found the threads work fine after cleaning up the ends.

you pretty much got it.

John Everett said:

As I indicated in a previous article, the rear wheel of my Fuji touring
bike got tacoed in a vehicle crash. I've pretty much determined that a
replacement Alex DA16 rim (700c, 36 spoke) just isn't available in the
US. Before getting a new rim and rebuilding the wheel I decided to try
an experiment. I removed the rim and by judicious manipulation (mostly
propping the rim on the leg of my workstand and bouncing up and down on
the high spots) I managed to get it pretty flat again. I decided to try
rebuilding with the old spokes, but new nipples. So off to my LBS to buy
some 2.0mm (14 gauge) nipples. Surprise, surprise, we couldn't manage to
get nipples to thread onto about a third of the spokes.

Mr. LBS said something about the spokes being damaged in the crash, or
perhaps being of different sizes, and suggested replacing them. I
thought, "if I'm about to spend the money for new spokes, I might as
well replace the rim." Since a new rim would probably not have the same
ERD as the Alex, and I haven't even thought about what brand to go with,
I left the store without purchasing anything.

I got home and started thinking about it. How could stainless steel
threads be damaged by brass nipples, no matter how much force was
applied? So first I measured the diameter of all the spokes (2.0mm all)
then got out my magnifying glass and examined the spoke ends carefully.
Turns out the thread rolling process left flashing hanging off the ends
of many of the spokes. A little work with a fine file and I can now get
nipples onto all of the spokes.

So my questions are, 1) what spoke manufacturer has an "N" on the heads
of all their spokes? Whoever they are, their quality control stinks. 2)
How ham-handed are the people and machines that build wheels with these
components? The original nipples must have been forced onto the spokes
with pretty significant torque.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

On a related note, it is interesting to see someone else who salvaged a
tacoed rim. I did this once to a rear wheel (tacoed in a nasty fall as a
result of pedal scrape) - rebent it with the spokes still in place, by
jamming the deformed spot against the ground, holding the top of the wheel
with my hands, and shoving the hub as hard as I could with my foot, to
get the rim to "sproing" more-or-less back into round. I managed to get
it to the point where it was rideable (thump-thump-thump) with the brake
caliper fully unlatched. I made no attempt to "true" it at all because the
spokes were set right before the crash. Since the rim didn't visibly
crack, I tried using this wheel, and lo and behold, after a couple of
hundred miles it came back into good true, essentially of its own accord.