NYC

Quoted message said:

I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a good

sweat in the first two miles.
____

hey parker. congratulations on your race. can you put a finger on what it was
about the first two miles that got the best of you?

were you on top of the bridge at the start? that start on top is a significant
long gradual climb.

i personally feel the race (as an event) can use some tweaking to even things
out a bit. 1) having started in both positions top and bottom, i whole
heatedly agree with what many say in that the top is simply a more challenging
route for the first 4 miles due to the climb of the bridge and another climb to
get the 4th ave. once off the bridge and in brooklyn.

Also...did you notice the Left Lane for the Orange starters going down 4th
Ave. in Brooklyn is 100% completely sun exposed for the entire distance (7
miles or so?) while the right lane is significantly shaded for a long ways?
this is entirely due to the sunrise position and the buildings adjacent to the
street blocking sunlight and creating shade for the right lane. i did notice
runners seeking staying in shade, something that was not an option for Orange
runners.

I chose to tolerate sunlight in favor of having a flat surface (middle of the
street) to run on as opposed to favoring being closer to the right curb and
being in shade. i thought in a race where sun/heat wore down a lot of people
over time...these two character nuances/differences are not entirely
insignificant and worth noting, if not tweaking.

For example...a Green starter who started at the bottom of the bridge out of
the sun and relatively flat...and then got to run 5 miles of 4th Ave in shade
had a different initial 8 miles than an Orange starter who started on top and
had to climb the bridge and ran 5 miles of 4th ave. entirely in that sun. I
don't see those as insignificant differences.

Did you say "this marathon and the marathon 3 weeks ago"? No wonder you had
muscle spasms; Do you always repeat marathons without recovering?
Congratulations on this feat!!

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Congratulations to everyone who ran yesterday, great performance in tough
conditions.
I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a good
sweat in the first two miles.
It wasn't a question of whether I would cramp, it was how far could I get
before I did.
The answer came around 35k or so. I felt OK through the first 16.
It's frustrating when you're not bonking but just can't run due to muscles
spasms. I had to walk through large portions of 3.5 miles. When I got to

the

Quoted message said:

25 mile mark I started running again and remarkably was able to run the

rest

Quoted message said:

of the way to the finish which made it less frustrating. I'm not really
disappointed as I got the qualifier out of the way 3 weeks ago and had no
real goal time in mind. I ran at about 3:40- 3:45 pace which I think was
reasonable but I just don't deal with heat well. I think I would have
cramped even if I ran slower from the start.

About the flats issue, I ran this and the marathon 3 weeks ago in Saucony
fastwitch Endurance model and had no problems. Lance's problem sound like
some kind of fit issue.

Parker - congrats on the race.

Did you do anything during the race to offset the sweating? Most sports
drinks contain sodium, but then again you don't want to start experimenting
during the race with a drink you haven't tried out...

Anthony.

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a good

sweat in the first two miles.
____

hey parker. congratulations on your race. can you put a finger on what it

was

Quoted message said:

about the first two miles that got the best of you?

Thanks, good job toughing it out yourself.
I just knew that unless some clouds came drifring along it was going to be
too warm for me and dehydration and cramping was going to become a factor at
some point.

Quoted message said:

were you on top of the bridge at the start? that start on top is a

significant

Quoted message said:

long gradual climb.

Quoted message said:

i personally feel the race (as an event) can use some tweaking to even

things

Quoted message said:

out a bit. 1) having started in both positions top and bottom, i whole
heatedly agree with what many say in that the top is simply a more

challenging

Quoted message said:

route for the first 4 miles due to the climb of the bridge and another

climb to

Quoted message said:

get the 4th ave. once off the bridge and in brooklyn.

I was blue, I was going so slow at the start I didn't think it was that big
a factor though.
My first mile was 8:44 and my second was 7:38.

Quoted message said:

Also...did you notice the Left Lane for the Orange starters going down

4th

Quoted message said:

Ave. in Brooklyn is 100% completely sun exposed for the entire distance (7
miles or so?) while the right lane is significantly shaded for a long

ways?

Quoted message said:

this is entirely due to the sunrise position and the buildings adjacent to

the

Quoted message said:

street blocking sunlight and creating shade for the right lane. i did

notice

Quoted message said:

runners seeking staying in shade, something that was not an option for

Orange

Quoted message said:

runners.

I chose to tolerate sunlight in favor of having a flat surface (middle of

the

Quoted message said:

street) to run on as opposed to favoring being closer to the right curb

and

Quoted message said:

being in shade. i thought in a race where sun/heat wore down a lot of

people

Quoted message said:

over time...these two character nuances/differences are not entirely
insignificant and worth noting, if not tweaking.

For example...a Green starter who started at the bottom of the bridge out

of

Quoted message said:

the sun and relatively flat...and then got to run 5 miles of 4th Ave in

shade

Quoted message said:

had a different initial 8 miles than an Orange starter who started on top

and

Quoted message said:

had to climb the bridge and ran 5 miles of 4th ave. entirely in that sun.

I

Quoted message said:

don't see those as insignificant differences.

I didn't notice those differences, what got to me was 5th ave where there
was no shade to be found for anyone.
I also missed the mile markers for 17-19 which was frustrating, I wasn't the
only one who had trouble locating them.

"Anthony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Parker - congrats on the race.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Did you do anything during the race to offset the sweating? Most sports
drinks contain sodium, but then again you don't want to start

experimenting

Quoted message said:

during the race with a drink you haven't tried out...

I walked through every water stop and drank a lot of water and yuch
(lemon-lime) gatorade. I also consumed three E-gels and a power-gel which
have electrolytes in them. I'm not positive it's a loss of sodium that
causes the cramping, I tend to think it's the dehydration factor. The fact
that I was able to run continuosly from mile 25 to the finish without going
back into spasms makes me wonder if I was able to absorb enough liquid while
walking to overcome the dehydration factor. I wasn't bonked at the end, I
didn't drink the water handed in the bag. I had to walk all the way to the
blue exit near 81st and then walked back to our hotel on 48th and 8th ave
without a problem.
I think I just inherited my sweat glands from the wrong parent, my father
was a profuse sweater but I never noticed my mother visibly sweating.

Quoted message said:

Anthony.

Parker

Parker Race said:

Congratulations to everyone who ran yesterday, great performance in tough
conditions.
I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a good
sweat in the first two miles.
It wasn't a question of whether I would cramp, it was how far could I get
before I did.
The answer came around 35k or so. I felt OK through the first 16.
It's frustrating when you're not bonking but just can't run due to muscles
spasms. I had to walk through large portions of 3.5 miles. When I got to the
25 mile mark I started running again and remarkably was able to run the rest
of the way to the finish which made it less frustrating. I'm not really
disappointed as I got the qualifier out of the way 3 weeks ago and had no
real goal time in mind. I ran at about 3:40- 3:45 pace which I think was
reasonable but I just don't deal with heat well. I think I would have
cramped even if I ran slower from the start.

About the flats issue, I ran this and the marathon 3 weeks ago in Saucony
fastwitch Endurance model and had no problems. Lance's problem sound like
some kind of fit issue.

Congrats on getting your finishers medal. It was a really tough day to be
racing, especially for a heavy sweater. The heat was a bit of a surprise at
least to me -- the last I heard on the forecast led me to believe that it
might stay below 60 the entire race. I don't sweat that much, and I was
drinking at every stop and was still thirsty at the finish line.

Have you considered using electrolyte capsules during these longer races ?

Re Lance's problem: it sounds like fit might be part of it, though it also
sounds to me like he was wearing the wrong shoe (for him at least). I think
the NB 7xx is lighter than the Saucony Fastwitch 'E'.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Harry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news😄uWjd.589$eG4.470@trndny08...

Quoted message said:

Did you say "this marathon and the marathon 3 weeks ago"? No wonder you

had

Quoted message said:

muscle spasms; Do you always repeat marathons without recovering?
Congratulations on this feat!!

Thanks, it was the first time. I don't think it was the lack of recovery as
much as the heat that got to me though. I don't do well in heat.
Glad I got my Boston qualifier out of the way three weeks ago though.

Quoted message said:

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Congratulations to everyone who ran yesterday, great performance in

tough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

conditions.
I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a

good

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sweat in the first two miles.
It wasn't a question of whether I would cramp, it was how far could I

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

before I did.
The answer came around 35k or so. I felt OK through the first 16.
It's frustrating when you're not bonking but just can't run due to

muscles

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spasms. I had to walk through large portions of 3.5 miles. When I got to

the

Quoted message said:

25 mile mark I started running again and remarkably was able to run the

rest

Quoted message said:

of the way to the finish which made it less frustrating. I'm not really
disappointed as I got the qualifier out of the way 3 weeks ago and had

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

real goal time in mind. I ran at about 3:40- 3:45 pace which I think

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

reasonable but I just don't deal with heat well. I think I would have
cramped even if I ran slower from the start.

About the flats issue, I ran this and the marathon 3 weeks ago in

Saucony

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fastwitch Endurance model and had no problems. Lance's problem sound

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some kind of fit issue.

In article <[email hidden]>, Parker Race
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Congratulations to everyone who ran yesterday, great performance in tough
conditions.
I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles, I had worked up a good
sweat in the first two miles.
It wasn't a question of whether I would cramp, it was how far could I get
before I did.

Congrats on finishing. I was wondering what had happened to you - I
could see your half-marathon time and your projected finish time, but
the clock kept ticking and it felt like ages until your finish result
came in. I realised you must have had a tough second half of the race.
It sounds like the heat took its toll.
--
Mel Rimmer

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anthony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Parker - congrats on the race.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Did you do anything during the race to offset the sweating? Most
sports
drinks contain sodium, but then again you don't want to start

experimenting

Quoted message said:

during the race with a drink you haven't tried out...

I walked through every water stop and drank a lot of water and yuch
(lemon-lime) gatorade. I also consumed three E-gels and a power-gel
which
have electrolytes in them. I'm not positive it's a loss of sodium that
causes the cramping, I tend to think it's the dehydration factor.

It could be one or both. I'm still suspicious of low salt since you were
drinking water to offset the sucky Gatorade. Gatorade doesn't have a lot
of salt to begin with and then the water dilutes it even more. Can you
tell us how much salt was in the "electrolytes?"

Quoted message said:

The fact
that I was able to run continuosly from mile 25 to the finish without
going
back into spasms makes me wonder if I was able to absorb enough liquid
while
walking to overcome the dehydration factor.

Again, slowing may have allowed both to absorb.

-DF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anthony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Parker - congrats on the race.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Did you do anything during the race to offset the sweating? Most
sports
drinks contain sodium, but then again you don't want to start

experimenting

Quoted message said:

during the race with a drink you haven't tried out...

I walked through every water stop and drank a lot of water and yuch
(lemon-lime) gatorade. I also consumed three E-gels and a power-gel
which
have electrolytes in them. I'm not positive it's a loss of sodium that
causes the cramping, I tend to think it's the dehydration factor.

It could be one or both. I'm still suspicious of low salt since you were
drinking water to offset the sucky Gatorade. Gatorade doesn't have a lot
of salt to begin with and then the water dilutes it even more. Can you
tell us how much salt was in the "electrolytes?"

I consumed a full package of E-fuel a couple of hours before which contains
390 mgs sodium and 150 mgs of potassium. Druing the race I consued 3 E-Gels
which contain 230 mgs of sodium and 85 mgs of potassium each and one Power
Gel 45 mgs sodium and potassium. That's a total of 1125 mgs of sodium and
290 mgs of potassium. 4 Suceed capsules would be 1364 milligrams of sodium
and 84 mgs of potassium. I also drank at least 3 or 4 cups of undiluted
Gatorade, I don't know off hand how much sodium and potassium it contains.
I did notice that my body was streaked with salt afterwards however.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The fact
that I was able to run continuosly from mile 25 to the finish without
going
back into spasms makes me wonder if I was able to absorb enough liquid
while
walking to overcome the dehydration factor.

Again, slowing may have allowed both to absorb.

Maybe, I probably should have started slower considering the temperature.

Quoted message said:

-DF

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I consumed a full package of E-fuel a couple of hours before which
contains
390 mgs sodium and 150 mgs of potassium. Druing the race I consued 3
E-Gels
which contain 230 mgs of sodium and 85 mgs of potassium each and one
Power
Gel 45 mgs sodium and potassium. That's a total of 1125 mgs of sodium
and
290 mgs of potassium. 4 Suceed capsules would be 1364 milligrams of
sodium
and 84 mgs of potassium. I also drank at least 3 or 4 cups of
undiluted
Gatorade, I don't know off hand how much sodium and potassium it
contains.
I did notice that my body was streaked with salt afterwards however.

Sure looks like you paid attention to salt. As we all know each person's
salt needs vary and vary from month to month with heat all year. With
myself I know I need to take 2 S!caps per hour to hour an a half on a
hot day. By hot I mean either really high heat 80's+ or even 60-70's if
I've been training 10-20's. I had a real tough time the last 5 miles of
Bull Run being too light on the salt thinking I was doing just fine.

Just some food for thought for a training run next year.

If you want to make your way to Woodstock on the Dec 18th and join my
band of nuts I'll introduce you to a 9 mile route up and over Overlook
Mountain(it's all road). If you want to go longer we can add on. Run
starts at 9 with optional extra credit at 8. On Jan 8th is a no fee 10k
called The Viking Run. As the name suggests it ain't flat and the
weather can be terrible. I try to get the folks to jog it first and then
again when the gun goes off.

Quoted message said:

Maybe, I probably should have started slower considering the
temperature.

That's always a [censored] shoot but I'm a notorious slow starter. Most
people don't warm up much or at all before a marathon to rightfully save
their energy. This also means your body is not warmed up and inefficient
in its use of glycogen. Sometimes a little congestion at the beginning
is beneficial.

-DougF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I consumed a full package of E-fuel a couple of hours before which
contains
390 mgs sodium and 150 mgs of potassium. Druing the race I consued 3
E-Gels
which contain 230 mgs of sodium and 85 mgs of potassium each and one
Power
Gel 45 mgs sodium and potassium. That's a total of 1125 mgs of sodium
and
290 mgs of potassium. 4 Suceed capsules would be 1364 milligrams of
sodium
and 84 mgs of potassium. I also drank at least 3 or 4 cups of
undiluted
Gatorade, I don't know off hand how much sodium and potassium it
contains.
I did notice that my body was streaked with salt afterwards however.

Sure looks like you paid attention to salt. As we all know each person's
salt needs vary and vary from month to month with heat all year. With
myself I know I need to take 2 S!caps per hour to hour an a half on a
hot day. By hot I mean either really high heat 80's+ or even 60-70's if
I've been training 10-20's. I had a real tough time the last 5 miles of
Bull Run being too light on the salt thinking I was doing just fine.

It's hard to say I wish I had access to a scale to check out how much fluid
I lost during the race. It was hard to judge as it was breezy and wasn't
extremely humid. I think the drying effect of those conditions tend to trick
you into thinking you're really not losing much water.

Quoted message said:

Just some food for thought for a training run next year.

If you want to make your way to Woodstock on the Dec 18th and join my
band of nuts I'll introduce you to a 9 mile route up and over Overlook
Mountain(it's all road). If you want to go longer we can add on. Run
starts at 9 with optional extra credit at 8. On Jan 8th is a no fee 10k
called The Viking Run. As the name suggests it ain't flat and the
weather can be terrible. I try to get the folks to jog it first and then
again when the gun goes off.

Sounds like you think like our coach, scary.
We'll see, those sound like my wife's kind of thing. She's still pretty
banged up from her Marathon though. The things that ego will do to you, she
continued to do Marathon like training after Hartford in hopes of going to
Philly and redeeming herself. I guess winning cash wasn't good enough.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe, I probably should have started slower considering the
temperature.

That's always a [censored] shoot but I'm a notorious slow starter. Most
people don't warm up much or at all before a marathon to rightfully save
their energy. This also means your body is not warmed up and inefficient
in its use of glycogen. Sometimes a little congestion at the beginning
is beneficial.

Yes, I might have been better off stating farther back.
I ran a sub 9:00 pace in Vermont City after a 9:30 minute first mile, which
was a PR at the time.

Quoted message said:

-DougF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Parker Race" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I consumed a full package of E-fuel a couple of hours before which
contains
390 mgs sodium and 150 mgs of potassium. Druing the race I consued 3
E-Gels
which contain 230 mgs of sodium and 85 mgs of potassium each and one
Power
Gel 45 mgs sodium and potassium. That's a total of 1125 mgs of sodium
and
290 mgs of potassium. 4 Suceed capsules would be 1364 milligrams of
sodium
and 84 mgs of potassium. I also drank at least 3 or 4 cups of
undiluted
Gatorade, I don't know off hand how much sodium and potassium it
contains.
I did notice that my body was streaked with salt afterwards however.

Sure looks like you paid attention to salt. As we all know each person's
salt needs vary and vary from month to month with heat all year. With
myself I know I need to take 2 S!caps per hour to hour an a half on a
hot day. By hot I mean either really high heat 80's+ or even 60-70's if
I've been training 10-20's. I had a real tough time the last 5 miles of
Bull Run being too light on the salt thinking I was doing just fine.

It's hard to say I wish I had access to a scale to check out how much fluid
I lost during the race. It was hard to judge as it was breezy and wasn't
extremely humid. I think the drying effect of those conditions tend to trick
you into thinking you're really not losing much water.

Quoted message said:

Just some food for thought for a training run next year.

If you want to make your way to Woodstock on the Dec 18th and join my
band of nuts I'll introduce you to a 9 mile route up and over Overlook
Mountain(it's all road). If you want to go longer we can add on. Run
starts at 9 with optional extra credit at 8. On Jan 8th is a no fee 10k
called The Viking Run. As the name suggests it ain't flat and the
weather can be terrible. I try to get the folks to jog it first and then
again when the gun goes off.

Sounds like you think like our coach, scary.
We'll see, those sound like my wife's kind of thing. She's still pretty
banged up from her Marathon though. The things that ego will do to you, she
continued to do Marathon like training after Hartford in hopes of going to
Philly and redeeming herself. I guess winning cash wasn't good enough.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe, I probably should have started slower considering the
temperature.

That's always a [censored] shoot but I'm a notorious slow starter. Most
people don't warm up much or at all before a marathon to rightfully save
their energy. This also means your body is not warmed up and inefficient
in its use of glycogen. Sometimes a little congestion at the beginning
is beneficial.

Yes, I might have been better off stating farther back.
I ran a sub 9:00 pace in Vermont City after a 9:30 minute first mile, which
was a PR at the time.

Quoted message said:

-DougF

Quoted message said:

I knew I was in trouble after the first two miles ... When I got to the
25 mile mark I started running again and remarkably was able to run the rest
of the way to the finish which made it less frustrating.

If I haven't said it before (the past week in NYC is kind of a blur),
way to hang in there tough. Good job!

--
Brian P. Baresch
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Professional editing and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

<< NYC is kind of a blur),
way to hang in there tough. Good job! >><

....no, just fogg,
no, not the museum ~
been there, done
that...

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
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HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
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