chain cleaners

Roy Gordon <royg_XOUT@sonic_xout.com> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

I use a half gallon plastic bottle. Drop the chain in with half an inch of
degreaser. Shake for a minute. Let sit for a minute. Shake again. Comes
out really clean with no mess.

Roy->Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

Quoted message said:

Any recs, comments, etc. most appreciated.

Find a shop with wipperman 10s snaplinks and use that to take off the chain,
the cogs, the chainrings, clean in a tub with a bit of mineral spirits. Chain
cleaners are not that great, the ones that attch onto the chain when on the
bike. The link is $8.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Roy->Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

Quoted message said:

Any recs, comments, etc. most appreciated.

Find a shop with wipperman 10s snaplinks and use that to take off the chain,
the cogs, the chainrings, clean in a tub with a bit of mineral spirits. Chain
cleaners are not that great, the ones that attch onto the chain when on the
bike. The link is $8.

Roy,

If you think 8 bucks is a bit steep for a snaplink then may I suggest
getting the SRAM Powerlink Gold. I've used it exclusively on my Campy
10spd drivetrain for the last 3 years. Works perfectly and can be bought
in bike shops in the Netherlands for 0.70 to 1 Euro each! They may cost
a little higher in the UK but not a lot more. But if you've got money to
burn then by all means do what ya gotta do.

Kenny

"Roy Gordon" wrote...

Quoted message said:

Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

Any recs, comments, etc. most appreciated.

Try Simple Green. Biodegradable, multi-use.

JF

Roy Gordon says...

Quoted message said:

Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

Any recs, comments, etc. most appreciated.

TIA.

Roy

Coleman fuel. I think I paid about $4 for a gallon at Wal-mart. Not
smelly, evaporates fast. It is basically the same thing as paint and
varnish makers naptha, which I have also used, but naptha is much harder
to find and more expensive. You can set up two or three different
bottles of it for different stages of cleaning. Shake in bottle, remove
to next bottle, wipe dry with paper towel after last bottle, lube. Don't
waste your time scrubbing the chain. It isn't worth the trouble. You can
reclaim dirty solvent by waiting for the dirt to settle out and drawing
off the clean part. One gallon will last me for a couple years at least.

"Super Slinky" wrote: Coleman fuel. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm sure it works very well, but, if I am not mistaken, you're using
gasoline. I saw a fire department demonstration, once, where the vapor
flowed down a flight of stairs to a water heater and ignited. The flame
then went back up the stairs, and set everything on fire. I was impressed.

Gasoline has very wide ignition limits--if you do use it as a cleaning
solvent, please do it out of doors, and away from all ignition sources. But
better yet, I suggest using something that is harder to light and burns
slower.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Super Slinky" wrote: Coleman fuel. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm sure it works very well, but, if I am not mistaken, you're using
gasoline. I saw a fire department demonstration, once, where the vapor
flowed down a flight of stairs to a water heater and ignited. The flame
then went back up the stairs, and set everything on fire. I was impressed.

Gasoline has very wide ignition limits--if you do use it as a cleaning
solvent, please do it out of doors, and away from all ignition sources. But
better yet, I suggest using something that is harder to light and burns
slower.

Mineral spirits is under $3 per gallon at many large hardware stores
(Lowe's, Home Depot, etc) and is far safer to use than anything that's
sold for use as a fuel.

And yes, Coleman fuel is closer to gasoline - to *old* gasoline,
before oxygenating fractions were added - than it is to any safe
solvent. I believe it's what was formerly sold as "white gas"; the
base stock which became automotive fuel when blended with the
requisite antiknock, top cylinder lubricant, deposit scavenging and
(optional) colorant additives. Coleman fuel has all the vapor flow
and ignitability problems of gasoline. Even a static electricity
spark can set it ablaze.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
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Leo Lichtman says...

Quoted message said:

"Super Slinky" wrote: Coleman fuel. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm sure it works very well, but, if I am not mistaken, you're using
gasoline. I saw a fire department demonstration, once, where the vapor
flowed down a flight of stairs to a water heater and ignited. The flame
then went back up the stairs, and set everything on fire. I was impressed.

Gasoline has very wide ignition limits--if you do use it as a cleaning
solvent, please do it out of doors, and away from all ignition sources. But
better yet, I suggest using something that is harder to light and burns
slower.

No, it isn't gasoline. It is primarily naptha (a.k.a. ligroin or
petroleum ether). Like any other organic fuel or solvent, it will burn
if tossed onto a fire, but the fact is that semi-intelligent adults deal
with these things every day without incident. Bic lighters use the most
volatile fuel available in liquid form--butane. Lighten up, Leo. Gassing
up your lawn mower and starting it is a lot more dangerous than cleaning
your chain with Coleman fuel.

Werehatrack says...

Quoted message said:

Mineral spirits is under $3 per gallon at many large hardware stores
(Lowe's, Home Depot, etc) and is far safer to use than anything that's
sold for use as a fuel.

That's just silly. Not only is it safe when used with the common sense
you would apply to any fuel or solvent, it is sold by the gallon at Wal-
mart for the love of Pete. The mineral spirits I have used don't compare
in chain cleaning power and it has the same basic dangers as Coleman
fuel, gasoline or whatever. None are safe in the hands of small
children, but that isn't the audience I was speaking to.

Quoted message said:

And yes, Coleman fuel is closer to gasoline - to *old* gasoline,
before oxygenating fractions were added - than it is to any safe
solvent. I believe it's what was formerly sold as "white gas"; the
base stock which became automotive fuel when blended with the
requisite antiknock, top cylinder lubricant, deposit scavenging and
(optional) colorant additives. Coleman fuel has all the vapor flow
and ignitability problems of gasoline. Even a static electricity
spark can set it ablaze.

Sorry, but I have to call BS here. I'm a chemist and I have dealt with
these things, and much worse, for quite a few years now. Common sense
goes a long way. Use only what you need, don't leave the containers
open, don't put your cigarettes out in it. We're not talking about
nuclear waste here. It's camp stove fuel. I think most people reading
this can handle it.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 04:09:21 GMT, Super Slinky <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack says...

Quoted message said:

Mineral spirits is under $3 per gallon at many large hardware stores
(Lowe's, Home Depot, etc) and is far safer to use than anything that's
sold for use as a fuel.

That's just silly. Not only is it safe when used with the common sense
you would apply to any fuel or solvent, it is sold by the gallon at Wal-
mart for the love of Pete. The mineral spirits I have used don't compare
in chain cleaning power and it has the same basic dangers as Coleman
fuel, gasoline or whatever. None are safe in the hands of small
children, but that isn't the audience I was speaking to.

The MSDS for Coleman fuel is here:

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf

Note that the flash point is below 0 degrees F, and the vapor pressure
is 518mmHg @ 68F. That's *very* volatile. The NFPA rating for fire
hazard is "Extreme". I tend to think that those people know what
they're talking about.

For mineral spirits, the stats are quite different.

Here's the Sherwin-Williams MSDS for their mineral spirits; it's
fairly typical:

http://www.sherlink.com/sher-link/temp/msds/1548759.pdf?

The flash point is 100 degrees F, far higher than for Coleman fuel.
(Many common types of mineral spirits are blended for a flash point of
140F; the ones sold for parts washer solvent typically meet that
spec.) The vapor pressure is just 2mmHg, which is quite low. The
NFPA rating is "Combustible", which is on a par with paper for
flammability.

Sherwin-Williams also supplies several forms of Naphtha, with flash
points of 100F, 140F and 150F; their vapor pressures are less than
that for mineral spirits; they, too, are not in the same hazard class
as Coleman fuel. Since both mineral spirits and naphtha are
substances without a specific industry-wide formula, their exact
characteristics will vary, but the ones above are typical.

Bottom line: Coleman fuel is not as safe to use as a solvent as
mineral spirits or naphtha.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And yes, Coleman fuel is closer to gasoline - to *old* gasoline,
before oxygenating fractions were added - than it is to any safe
solvent. I believe it's what was formerly sold as "white gas"; the
base stock which became automotive fuel when blended with the
requisite antiknock, top cylinder lubricant, deposit scavenging and
(optional) colorant additives. Coleman fuel has all the vapor flow
and ignitability problems of gasoline. Even a static electricity
spark can set it ablaze.

Sorry, but I have to call BS here. I'm a chemist

Then you should have known better, sir! (And I called a professional
chemist to verify my suspicions before I went looking for the two
links above; the response, when I explained why I was asking was "HE
SAID WHAT???!"😉

Quoted message said:

and I have dealt with
these things, and much worse, for quite a few years now. Common sense
goes a long way. Use only what you need, don't leave the containers
open, don't put your cigarettes out in it. We're not talking about
nuclear waste here. It's camp stove fuel. I think most people reading
this can handle it.

And your advice, as originally framed, could put them at significant
hazard for a fire or explosion. Perhaps a trained professional using
proper equipment and procedures would not be at significant risk, but
no such assumption is reasonable here. As is also true for gasoline,
any spark can ignite Coleman fuel vapor or liquid. Its properties are
not sufficiently different from gasoline to constitute a lesser hazard
or make its use as a cleaning solvent a safe procedure; both of those
points are explicitly noted on the can by Coleman. You failed to
describe proper safety, handling and disposal procedures for the
fuel-contaminated paper towels, you did not mention that the storage
bottles must be tightly sealed and of an appropriate material
(perferably metal), that the fuel needs to be stored in a ventilated
space that is free of sources of ignition, and that the material
should be used in a location that is also well ventilated and free of
potential sources of ignition, and that the user needs to be aware of
the flammability hazard and the potential for ignition from unexpected
sources. You mentioned none of these, simply assuming that the reader
would "use common sense". One would hope so, since in point of fact,
common sense would indicate that Coleman fuel is not the right thing
to use, particularly since this is on the side of the can:

"Do not use this fuel as a fire starter, for cleaning purposes, or
in kerosene, alcohol or lamp oil appliances."
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Sherwin-Williams also supplies several forms of Naphtha, with flash
points of 100F, 140F and 150F; their vapor pressures are less than
that for mineral spirits; they, too, are not in the same hazard class
as Coleman fuel. Since both mineral spirits and naphtha are
substances without a specific industry-wide formula, their exact
characteristics will vary, but the ones above are typical.

Bottom line: Coleman fuel is not as safe to use as a solvent as
mineral spirits or naphtha.

Addendum: The figures for naphtha given above are for the forms that
have been introduced by Sherwin-Williams (many other makers have
similar versions) in recent years to provide lower-volatility
products. Typical traditional VM&P naphtha formulas tend to have a
flash point of 50F or below and a vapor pressure of 8mm to 28mmHg,
which is well into the range in which they are not well suited for use
as a safe cleaning solvent although they can be less hazardous than
Coleman fuel or gasoline depending on the exact characteristics of the
naphtha in question. "Naphtha", as previously noted, is a term that
does not refer to a substance with a standardized industry-wide
formulation, although "VM&P naphtha" is more specific and has much
less variation than "naphtha" in general.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Get a life, man. I don't have time to read, much less argue about all
this nonsense. We're not talking about dynamite here. It's camp stove
fuel sold by the gallon at Wal-mart. Its primary users are drunks and
adolescents. If you are so worried about it, maybe you should campaign
to get it banned. You could hold your rallies with the people protesting
turkey murder on Thanksgiving. When I was in college, we would have 20
students doing extractions at the same time with pet ether without a
single explosion, nor had there been any in the entire history of that
university or any other that I am aware of. BTW, the name naptha is used
almost [censored]-nilly for a variety of very different concoctions. I
wouldn't mess with any of them besides VM&P naptha, a.k.a ligroin or
petroleum ether. The low vapor pressure stuff going by the name of
naptha is probably quite toxic and would perform comparatively poorly as
a chain degreaser. Maybe you should do some research before you
recommend things that really are dangerous and unsuitable for the
purpose in question. Coleman fuel is very similar to VM&P naptha, just
cheaper and available anywhere. If anyone doesn't trust themselves to
use such a common thing, then by all means stay away from it.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:45:58 +0800, Kenny Lee <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Roy->Chain cleaner for my road bike. Campy 10 spd chain.

Quoted message said:

Any recs, comments, etc. most appreciated.

Find a shop with wipperman 10s snaplinks and use that to take off the chain,
the cogs, the chainrings, clean in a tub with a bit of mineral spirits. Chain
cleaners are not that great, the ones that attch onto the chain when on the
bike. The link is $8.

Roy,

If you think 8 bucks is a bit steep for a snaplink then may I suggest
getting the SRAM Powerlink Gold. I've used it exclusively on my Campy
10spd drivetrain for the last 3 years. Works perfectly and can be bought
in bike shops in the Netherlands for 0.70 to 1 Euro each! They may cost
a little higher in the UK but not a lot more. But if you've got money to
burn then by all means do what ya gotta do.

While we're touting our favorite master links, let me recommend the
Super Link. See:

lickbike.comproductpage.aspxOpen ↗

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Super Slinky said:

Get a life, man. I don't have time to read, much less argue about all
this nonsense. We're not talking about dynamite here. It's camp stove
fuel sold by the gallon at Wal-mart. Its primary users are drunks and
adolescents.

[snip]

Dear SS,

Calm down. The argument from ignorance is unconvincing.

WalMart expects the drunken children to pour the camp stove
fuel into camp stove fuel tanks, not slosh it around in open
trays while scrubbing metal chains with wire-bristle brushes
in a garage next to an electric air compressor that starts
up automatically.

Fire departments, ambulance drivers, and burn ward doctors
routinely urge victims to find the time to read the labels
next time.

Carl Fogel

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Dear SS,

Calm down. The argument from ignorance is unconvincing.

LOL. A bold statement, not to mention incredibly insulting. I'm a
chemist and I handle far worse on a full-time basis. And you are what? A
prolific Usenet poster? Oh, and before you tell me to calm down again,
if you can't stand the heat, then put down the flamethrower. I haven't
begun to get worked up yet, but we can go there if you insist on
following me around and biting me in the ass.

Quoted message said:

WalMart expects the drunken children to pour the camp stove
fuel into camp stove fuel tanks, not slosh it around in open
trays while scrubbing metal chains with wire-bristle brushes
in a garage next to an electric air compressor that starts
up automatically.

Fire departments, ambulance drivers, and burn ward doctors
routinely urge victims to find the time to read the labels
next time.

Carl Fogel

One would think that those handy enough to have an air compressor rigged
to start automatically would have had some experience in the use of
various fuels. Do you even think about what you post, or is it sort of
like diarrhea of the keyboard? You can clean your chain in closed
containers with only minimal vapor loss. In fact, why do it any other
way? BTW, camp stoves are a source of ignition, in case that little
tidbit went over your head. One need not clean one's chain near a source
of ignition, so the fuel's intended use is actually going to be quite a
bit more dangerous than using it for cleaning chains. But again, those
who are afraid of it need not use it. See how nicely that works out?

Super Slinky said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Dear SS,

Calm down. The argument from ignorance is unconvincing.

LOL. A bold statement, not to mention incredibly insulting. I'm a
chemist and I handle far worse on a full-time basis. And you are what? A
prolific Usenet poster? Oh, and before you tell me to calm down again,
if you can't stand the heat, then put down the flamethrower. I haven't
begun to get worked up yet, but we can go there if you insist on
following me around and biting me in the ass.

Quoted message said:

WalMart expects the drunken children to pour the camp stove
fuel into camp stove fuel tanks, not slosh it around in open
trays while scrubbing metal chains with wire-bristle brushes
in a garage next to an electric air compressor that starts
up automatically.

Fire departments, ambulance drivers, and burn ward doctors
routinely urge victims to find the time to read the labels
next time.

Carl Fogel

One would think that those handy enough to have an air compressor rigged
to start automatically would have had some experience in the use of
various fuels. Do you even think about what you post, or is it sort of
like diarrhea of the keyboard? You can clean your chain in closed
containers with only minimal vapor loss. In fact, why do it any other
way? BTW, camp stoves are a source of ignition, in case that little
tidbit went over your head. One need not clean one's chain near a source
of ignition, so the fuel's intended use is actually going to be quite a
bit more dangerous than using it for cleaning chains. But again, those
who are afraid of it need not use it. See how nicely that works out?

Dear SS,

Calm down. You snipped the part where you said that you
hadn't time to read or argue and then concluded that you
were right. Again, the argument from ignorance is
unconvincing.

Carl Fogel

Dear SS, Darwin told us how this would get worked out. Variety and diversity
in our species exist to test theories like the one you propose below. Time
will tell if the risk is worth the reward: if an easy, cheap chain cleaner
is more valuable to survival than safety from firey death to you and your
progeny.

Time will tell...

"Super Slinky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Get a life, man. I don't have time to read, much less argue about all
this nonsense. We're not talking about dynamite here. It's camp stove
fuel sold by the gallon at Wal-mart. Its primary users are drunks and
adolescents. If you are so worried about it, maybe you should campaign
to get it banned. You could hold your rallies with the people protesting
turkey murder on Thanksgiving. When I was in college, we would have 20
students doing extractions at the same time with pet ether without a
single explosion, nor had there been any in the entire history of that
university or any other that I am aware of. BTW, the name naptha is used
almost [censored]-nilly for a variety of very different concoctions. I
wouldn't mess with any of them besides VM&P naptha, a.k.a ligroin or
petroleum ether. The low vapor pressure stuff going by the name of
naptha is probably quite toxic and would perform comparatively poorly as
a chain degreaser. Maybe you should do some research before you
recommend things that really are dangerous and unsuitable for the
purpose in question. Coleman fuel is very similar to VM&P naptha, just
cheaper and available anywhere. If anyone doesn't trust themselves to
use such a common thing, then by all means stay away from it.

Quoted message said:

Calm down. You snipped the part where you said that you
hadn't time to read or argue and then concluded that you
were right. Again, the argument from ignorance is
unconvincing.

Eh, let 'im rant. One of these days, maybe he'll strike a spark
around that fuel, and find out why it was a bad idea. It won't be any
skin off my nose if it happens. Education is for the educable.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

Calm down. You snipped the part where you said that you
hadn't time to read or argue and then concluded that you
were right. Again, the argument from ignorance is
unconvincing.

Eh, let 'im rant. One of these days, maybe he'll strike a spark
around that fuel, and find out why it was a bad idea. It won't be any
skin off my nose if it happens. Education is for the educable.

Dear Werehatrack,

You're probably right and certainly more sensible than I am.
Silence is sometimes the best comment.

But I was so proud that I resisted the urge to say something
about that marvellously ill-chosen "flamethrower" comment
that--oops!

Carl Fogel