Pyrotechnic salad

David R. Throop said:

I don't usually have a question that is appropriate to
rec.food.cooking, rec.woodworking, rec.pyrotechnic and
sci.med.nutrition. But I've been wondering about flaming salad.

I've been researching flax seed oil. It's great nutrition; it's very
high in omega-3 unsaturated fats, which are the very good kind. But
it's hard to work with; it oxidizes - goes rancid - very quickly.
People in the know say that the fresh oil, and oil that has been well
tended, tastes delicous. But that a lot of the flax seed oil you buy
has gone rancid already.

Along the way I found out that flax seed oil == linseed oil. Wow,
I said. They use that for drying paint and finishing furniture. When
I lived in Atlanta, they were doing furniture-finishing at the the
house next door to me. It burned down. The cause was linseed
oil-soaked rags, improperly stored. See, this stuff oxidizes so fast
it actually can ignite. Any rags that have linseed oil on them should
be placed in an old paint can, with a metal lid tightly closed.

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

David Throop

Usually "boiled" linseed oil is used for furniture finishing because it
has transition metal compounds, like japan drier, added to catalyze the
oxidation. Even so, it will not oxidize quickly enough in air to ignite
a salad because the heat is not trapped (by the insulating rags). So
perhaps you could add something like manganese heptoxide to act as an
oxidizer *and* catalyst. I can't find anything about its acute toxicity.

Bob

"David R. Throop" <[email hidden]

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

David Throop

-----------
BEWARE the "boiled" linseed oil you buy in the paint store contains drying agents
not uncommonly cobalt napthlate. Cobalt compound are toxic!

Other than the overwhelming taste!! Food/medical grade oil would be ok. I believe there is
a German pudding based on linseed oil!

--
donald j haarmann
-------------------------------
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems
like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a
second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

AE

donald j haarmann said:

BEWARE the "boiled" linseed oil you buy in the paint store contains drying agents
not uncommonly cobalt napthlate. Cobalt compound are toxic!

Boiled linseed oil uses cobalt (which is a lousy drier) because the
alternatives are either lead, or a mixture or lead and manganese
compounds. The cobalt is there for "safety" !

I can't imagine eating anything made from linseed oil. The stuff is
horrible, even when freshly pressed. The seeds alone aren't too bad,
but concentrated into the oil their taste is just overpowering.

--
Smert' spamionam

On 6 Oct 2004 20:15:07 -0500, [email hidden] (David R. Throop)
wrote:
snip...

Quoted message said:

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

Pick salad bowl up off the chuch potluck table.
Hold salad bowl over head.
When the pastor's wife walks by, tweak her [censored].

The lightening bolts should help with both the speed and the certainty
of ignition.

Glad I could help,
Michael

I read this thread initially thinking..."what kind of moron is this?", but
thankfully Michael's post actually promoted spontaneously combusted
laughter!
Man, this helps at the end of the day I've just had.
Thomas
"Michael Baglio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 6 Oct 2004 20:15:07 -0500, [email hidden] (David R. Throop)
wrote:
snip...

Quoted message said:

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

Pick salad bowl up off the chuch potluck table.
Hold salad bowl over head.
When the pastor's wife walks by, tweak her [censored].

The lightening bolts should help with both the speed and the certainty
of ignition.

Glad I could help,
Michael

In article <uw29d.945$hj.11@fed1read07>,

W Klofkorn said:

The company for which I work has done much research into [flax seed]
oils.

Grin - one of the great things about usenet is you almost always find
somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.

Quoted message said:

There is on the horizon, vegetable oil made from genetically
engineered plants that will have a more favorable omega-3 / omega-6
balance.

Great - I was expecting something like that but hadn't heard anything.
I have been trying to find an oil that was high in mono-unsturated
omega-3. Olive oil is great as far as it goes, but it's mostly Omega
6.

I'm not vegetarian and I eat lots of oily fish. Why swallow caps when
I can have sardines for breakfast? I understand you can't cook with
flax seed oil - its high degree of unsaturation causes it to degrade
very quickly with heat. But I don't want to do caps - I'm looking for
a salad dressing.

Quoted message said:

. Remember to put them in the fridge after opening to [censored]
oxidation.

Does flax seed solidify at refrigerator temperatures the way olive oil
does? Or does its unsaturation keep it running freely?

My sister bought me a device for keeping wine fresh - a hand-operated
pump and a set of rubber stoppers through which you can pull a vacuum.
It works well for wine; thought I'd try it for the oils too. Plus the
refrigeration.

David Throop
Followups set to sci.health.nutrition, where this seems to be heading.

"David R. Throop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <uw29d.945$hj.11@fed1read07>,

W Klofkorn said:

The company for which I work has done much research into [flax seed]
oils.

Grin - one of the great things about usenet is you almost always find
somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.

Quoted message said:

There is on the horizon, vegetable oil made from genetically
engineered plants that will have a more favorable omega-3 / omega-6
balance.

Great - I was expecting something like that but hadn't heard anything.
I have been trying to find an oil that was high in mono-unsturated
omega-3. Olive oil is great as far as it goes, but it's mostly Omega
6.

I'm not vegetarian and I eat lots of oily fish. Why swallow caps when
I can have sardines for breakfast? I understand you can't cook with
flax seed oil - its high degree of unsaturation causes it to degrade
very quickly with heat. But I don't want to do caps - I'm looking for
a salad dressing.

Quoted message said:

. Remember to put them in the fridge after opening to [censored]
oxidation.

Does flax seed solidify at refrigerator temperatures the way olive oil
does? Or does its unsaturation keep it running freely?

Don't know about Flax oil, but we keep our Flax seeds in the fridge. Grind
them up in the coffee grinder as needed, otherwise they do degrade rather
quickly. Mostly they get used to make Bran/Flax muffins. These are actually
very tasty and we make ours with Almond Flour and Sugar Twin, so they're low
carb. The ground seeds also make an "edible" porridge substitute, which is
very healthy. Also they make a good coating for oven fried chicken (if you
can stand the smell), but the heat destroys the Omega 3 I believe.

Quoted message said:

My sister bought me a device for keeping wine fresh - a hand-operated
pump and a set of rubber stoppers through which you can pull a vacuum.
It works well for wine; thought I'd try it for the oils too. Plus the
refrigeration.

David Throop
Followups set to sci.health.nutrition, where this seems to be heading.

On 6 Oct 2004 20:15:07 -0500, [email hidden] (David R. Throop)

Quoted message said:

I don't usually have a question that is appropriate to
rec.food.cooking, rec.woodworking, rec.pyrotechnic and
sci.med.nutrition. But I've been wondering about flaming salad.

I've been researching flax seed oil. It's great nutrition; it's very
high in omega-3 unsaturated fats, which are the very good kind. But
it's hard to work with; it oxidizes - goes rancid - very quickly.
People in the know say that the fresh oil, and oil that has been well
tended, tastes delicous. But that a lot of the flax seed oil you buy
has gone rancid already.

Along the way I found out that flax seed oil == linseed oil. Wow,
I said. They use that for drying paint and finishing furniture. When
I lived in Atlanta, they were doing furniture-finishing at the the
house next door to me. It burned down. The cause was linseed
oil-soaked rags, improperly stored. See, this stuff oxidizes so fast
it actually can ignite. Any rags that have linseed oil on them should
be placed in an old paint can, with a metal lid tightly closed.

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

David Throop

heh. have you ever SEEN linseed oil autocombust?

thick clouds of greasy smelly black smoke....

Quoted message said:

...it will not oxidize quickly enough in air to ignite
a salad because the heat is not trapped (by the insulating rags)...

It's always the pile of oily rags that catches fire. So why not just make
a pile of oily salad in the corner of your shop and see what happens?

--
John Snow
"If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be here"

Andy Dingley said:

donald j haarmann said:

BEWARE the "boiled" linseed oil you buy in the paint store contains drying agents
not uncommonly cobalt napthlate. Cobalt compound are toxic!

Boiled linseed oil uses cobalt (which is a lousy drier) because the
alternatives are either lead, or a mixture or lead and manganese
compounds. The cobalt is there for "safety" !

I can't imagine eating anything made from linseed oil. The stuff is
horrible, even when freshly pressed. The seeds alone aren't too bad,
but concentrated into the oil their taste is just overpowering.

--
Smert' spamionam

That's why they sell it in capsules at the health food store.

I've used pure (unboiled) linseed oil to finish some oak carvings (actually the top
rail of a chest with an Anglo-Saxon motto carved around it) and it worked well. It
does take longer to dry, but hey, I live in Arizona!

--RC

W Klofkorn said:

Yup. It's very nutritious. Almost as rich in omega 3's as hempseed oil or
salmon oil.

That said, I think you'd be hard pressed to get an edible auto-ignition. You
might try fueling floating, oil-fueled candle at a dinner with said oil to
make a point if you care to.

The company for which I work has done much research into these oils. We
recommend salmon oil for nutritional purposes. We do not manufacture these
oils, but only provide them to patients. There is on the horizon, vegetable
oil made from genetically engineered plants that will have a more favorable
omega-3 / omega-6 balance. These are probably a few years off, though. If
you're not a strict vegetarian, fish oil is still your best bet. One decent
brand is Tyler "Eskimo 3." Another that is usually good, but has had some
reports of rancidness is Coromega. For vegetarians, hempseed and flax oil
are decent (though not up to fish oil standards). Don't know about flax oil,
but hemp seed oil tastes like [censored]. Too bad, since it is at present the best
source of vegetarian omega 3 oil. One can get them encapsulated. Remember to
put them in the fridge after opening to [censored] oxidation.

I have heard (from obviously biased sources) that most fish oils still contain
traces of mercury, etc. from the fish and that only super-refined, and
expensive, brands are safe. Is this true or just someone trying to make an extra
buck?

--RC (Who takes large doses every day for cholesterol control)

Hard to make a call on this. Personally I use one oif the highly refined
brands -- Eskimo 3. There is a rumor about that my company may be switching
to another brand, but I don't think purity is the deciding factor. I doubt
that for a man of middle age or later that heavy metal contamination would
be much of an issue -- not nearly as much as risk of coronary disease from
dyslipidemia. This would be an interesting project for someone with a heavy
duty chromatogrphy set up and a big government grant: assay various oils
being sold for purity, conformance to contents as stated on label, etc.
Since these are natural products, by-products of commercial fisheries and so
forth, there might well be great variation among different batches depending
on ultimate source, season of year, processing, and so forth. Me, I take my
chances on the metals on the bet that I might stave off that coronary a
while longer.

"Rick Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

W Klofkorn said:

Yup. It's very nutritious. Almost as rich in omega 3's as hempseed oil or
salmon oil.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have heard (from obviously biased sources) that most fish oils still
contain
traces of mercury, etc. from the fish and that only super-refined, and
expensive, brands are safe. Is this true or just someone trying to make an
extra
buck?

--RC (Who takes large doses every day for cholesterol control)

"Rick Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've used pure (unboiled) linseed oil to finish some oak carvings

(actually the top

Quoted message said:

rail of a chest with an Anglo-Saxon motto carved around it) and it worked

well. It

Quoted message said:

does take longer to dry, but hey, I live in Arizona!

Truly "raw" linseed oil will never completely dry, because of the fats and
fatty acids in it.

If you want true boiled linseed oil, cook your own. It involves heating the
raw oil in a water bath (double boiler)for several hours, until all the fats
agglomerate and float to the top. Then it's skimmed, like a greasy soup,
and the clear, fat-free oil is decanted.

Commercial "boiled" oil has those drying additives primarily to force the
fats to cure like varnishes. But oil with dryers in it never performs like
real boiled oil when doing a French polish on top of shellac.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh said:

If you want true boiled linseed oil, cook your own. It involves heating the
raw oil in a water bath (double boiler)for several hours, until all the fats
agglomerate and float to the top. Then it's skimmed, like a greasy soup,
and the clear, fat-free oil is decanted.

This is something like the production of a London Dull Oil finish for
gunsmithing. It's entirely different to the boiled-oil processes of
traditional cabinetry. They're cooked at a higher temperature and they
involve the addition of a metal salt; lead or manganese.

Quoted message said:

But oil with dryers in it never performs like
real boiled oil when doing a French polish on top of shellac.

What on earth is a drying oil doing mixed in with French polish ?

--
Smert' spamionam

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 6 Oct 2004 20:15:07 -0500, [email hidden] (David R. Throop)

Quoted message said:

I don't usually have a question that is appropriate to
rec.food.cooking, rec.woodworking, rec.pyrotechnic and
sci.med.nutrition. But I've been wondering about flaming salad.

I've been researching flax seed oil. It's great nutrition; it's very
high in omega-3 unsaturated fats, which are the very good kind. But
it's hard to work with; it oxidizes - goes rancid - very quickly.
People in the know say that the fresh oil, and oil that has been well
tended, tastes delicous. But that a lot of the flax seed oil you buy
has gone rancid already.

Along the way I found out that flax seed oil == linseed oil. Wow,
I said. They use that for drying paint and finishing furniture. When
I lived in Atlanta, they were doing furniture-finishing at the the
house next door to me. It burned down. The cause was linseed
oil-soaked rags, improperly stored. See, this stuff oxidizes so fast
it actually can ignite. Any rags that have linseed oil on them should
be placed in an old paint can, with a metal lid tightly closed.

So I've been wondering - if I use flax seed oil as a healthy salad
dressing, can I get it to burst into flames at the table? I realize
that this may alter the taste some, and the nutrient balance. But it
sure would an attention-grabber at the next church potluck. What
nontoxic thing could I do to speed up the ignition and make it more
certain?

David Throop

heh. have you ever SEEN linseed oil autocombust?

thick clouds of greasy smelly black smoke....

AMEN to that, you are talking about a grease fire. Horrible smell and
a lot of smoke. You would clear the room and no one would have any
desire to eat anywhere near that area.

You would be better off to make a decorative folded paper border or
centerpiece for you salad. AND if that paper happened to be flash
paper and there happened to be a igniter under the bowl that would
certainly get peoples attention, without killing the flavor. CHECK
OUT ALL SAFETY CONCERNS PRIOR TO ATTEMPTING ANYTHING, IN FACT IF YOU
ARE SANE YOU WILL PROABLE JUST FORGET THE ENTIRE IDEA. And if your
not all that terrible sane, good luck.

Ghostwriter

"Andy Dingley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What on earth is a drying oil doing mixed in with French polish ?

Brain-finger-infarction. Not mixed in...

The French polish is done with the shellac, but it doesn't hold very well
in the presence of moisture. A very, very thin rub-out with linseed oil and
super-fine wool over the shellac doesn't detract at all from the appearance,
but protects better. You have to wool it once more after drying to kill the
gloss.

Done with chemically "boiled" oils, the coating never really dries. With
the real stuff, it's totally dry and "micro-varnished" overnight.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh said:

Quoted message said:

What on earth is a drying oil doing mixed in with French polish ?

Brain-finger-infarction. Not mixed in...

I don't hold with this whole idea of using linseed oil in French
polishing at all. I use mineral oil, because I _know_ it's not going
to cure and will come off easily once I've finished.

Quoted message said:

The French polish is done with the shellac, but it doesn't hold very well
in the presence of moisture. A very, very thin rub-out with linseed oil and
super-fine wool over the shellac doesn't detract at all from the appearance,
but protects better.

Interesting idea - can't say I've tried it.

I don't French polish much. Most of my stuff is shellac over oil
(tung) because I don't want such a "formal" finish as a high-gloss
French polish. I must give this a go, because I really can't imagine
it working to deliver what I expect as French polish.

I'm working on a couple of cremation urns at the moment; sarcophagus
"tea caddy" style, one in walnut, one in mahogany. I might give it a
try.

Quoted message said:

Done with chemically "boiled" oils, the coating never really dries. With
the real stuff, it's totally dry and "micro-varnished" overnight.

I still don't agree that this is is "the real stuff". What's
"chemically boiled" oil ? To my mind, the real stuff is hot-boiled
with lead or manganese salts, and neutralised with limestone chips.
This is still a process involving the addition of chemistry, but it's
the classic recipes for cabinetry.

Do you have any references for low-temperature purely
heat-polymeriseed oils ? I'm interested in collecting these.

--
Smert' spamionam

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not vegetarian and I eat lots of oily fish. Why swallow caps when
I can have sardines for breakfast?

Sardines are usually packed in an acidic base inside a tin can. Leaching
occurs. Also, fish oil will house less pollutants (and less beneficial
components, true) than eating fish itself.

"donald j haarmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Cobalt compound are toxic!

Well, vitamin B12 is a cobalt compound (cobalamin). And what's worse,
the most common supplemental form is a cyanide/cobalt compound,
cyanocobalamin.

--Hua Kul