One more time....

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Good luck, Eric!

--
Saffire
205/147/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Butter....
Smart Balance Margarine .... instead of or in addition to butter
French Onion Dip on asparagus or broccolli
Vegetable Dips of all kinds on cooked veggies
Sour cream on whatever you like
Avocados full of nice oils and good taste.... in salads or in dips

3 or 4 ounces of full fat real cheese Blue Cheese, Jarlsburg, Cheddar,
Swiss, Goat, Mozarella, Gouda (smoked)............

You can look at the book "Dr. Atkins Quick & Easy New Diet Cookbook"
by Robert C ATkins MD & Veronica Atkins ISBN 0743260007 (Veronica is
described as a "master gourmet cook"😉 full of very tasty:

Appetisers
Soups
Salads
Breakfasts
Seafood
Poultry
Pork
Lamb
Veal
Beef
Vegetables
Sauces

So, it is tasty stuff to eat by the originator Atkins and his gourmet
wife with all kinds of really useful information about acceptable foods
at each and every stage of your Atkins process.

I take it that you don't read much of the stuff on diets that you follow
and like to "WING IT" as many, many people actually do.

Is that right?

You constitutionally can't follow someone elses's guidelines.

You don't have to broil slabs of fat. You can eat real good.

Watch out for the traps of hidden carbs.... they knock you for a loop in
killing weight loss -- I know because I got caught myself in this trap.

JIm

Eric Mark said:

Greetings all.

Today, Oct. 19, I start about my 5th or 6th attempt to stick to a
low-carb eating plan. I've posted here before, at the start of
previous, similar journeys, none of which lasted very long.

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

I returned to work today after a 10-day vacation during which I ate
freely, though not to ridiculous excess. I was mildly disappointed,
but not surprised, that I weighed in this morning at 269 LBS. (6'2"
male)

That's about the point at which I go into "must lose" mode by
instinct....and I generally 'do' lose some weight, whether by LC or
other means, but it always creeps back on when I slip up or relax.

Two more factors inspired me to return to the fold: I saw my sister
and BIL while on vacation, both of whom have lost 50-60 pounds on LC,
and kept off all but a pound or two. They are for the most part happy
with LC, and very plaeased with the results. Also I turned 40 earlier
this month, and it stinks to be fat as well as middle-aged.

Anyway, enough about me. Here's my plan of action this time around,
bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

I plan to concentrate more on what I don't eat than what I do. Not
according to any specific plan, but based on my previous LC experience
and knowing what sets off my appetite trigger and binge-mode.

I plan to jump start the weight loss with an Induction-style shock to
the system, that will last till at least all the Halloween candy
disappears from sight in early November. After that I will modify the
plan to some extent, but intend to remain adamant about not eating
certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Banned foods for Jump-Start phase:
all sugar and sugar-based snacks
bread
cereal
pizza
pretzels
pasta
pancakes
potatoes
rice
peas
carrots
corn
tomatoes
fruit (including berries, for now)
beer and wine
all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Strict moderation for Jump-Start:
Cream
cheese
cream cheese
broccoli
lettuce
green beans
cauliflower
cucumber
spinach
olive oil
vodka/whiskey
coffee/tea

Moderation for Jump-Start:
red meat
bacon/ham
eggs

Free foods for Jump-Start:
Fish
poultry
Lots and lots and lots of water

Once the first phase is over, I will consider adding in small portions
of starchier veggies, such as peas, carrots, tomatoes, etc., as well
as berries and possibly melon slices. (Though I must be careful with
'anything' that's sweet.) I will buy a box of Splenda and might even
try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For
instance, I can easily polish off close to a pound of cheese and more
than a cup of cream in a day, just nibbling and sipping, if I'm not
careful, so they go on the "strict moderation" list rather than mere
"moderation," where they would go on most LC plans.

Anyway, my goal is to drop at least 19 pounds in the next 37 days, and
sit down to a Thanksgiving feast on Nov. 25 weighing no more than 250
LBS.

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Regards,

Eric Mark

269/269/250 for Turkey Day/210

--
................................

Keepsake gift for young girls.
Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
Builds strong minds 12 ways.
Guaranteed satisfaction
- courteous money back
- keep bonus gifts

http://www.alicebook.com

Eric,

I'm not any kind of low carb expert, so take everything here with a grain of
salt. As I mentioned in a previous post, I did a low carb diet (followed
more closely the Curves diet than the Atkins one, but lots of similarities)
for about a month, consisting of 2-3 weeks of induction.

I decided to follow up on your post because I have a similar size (was 6'1"
259, white male, 26) though everyone is different so perhaps none of this
applies.

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins

I don't think you need to do low-fat, a moderate-fat approach worked for me.
For instance, I still pick up lean ground beef, and eat plenty of chicken,
and everything that is higher fat (e.g. sausages, bacon, and all sorts of
piggie products) is usually well drained. I too had problems, though mostly
with the pork fat *smell* permeating my clothes and the house.

One technique I found helpful was to hit the gym hard for 25 mins or so,
doing resistance training, then go home and eat right away. Usually the
smell didn't both me, my body was just craving fuel of any kind, so it was
easy to put food down. The second was to eat plenty of salads made up of
cucumbers, peppers, onions, and herbed cheese (e.g. a dill havarti is really
nice cubed). This was a great chaser to a higher fat meal..

Quoted message said:

bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

Now protein powder, that churns my stomach 🙂

Quoted message said:

certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Portion controlling just about made me quit. It's tough to control
everything and just eat as much fish and chicken as free foods, they take
too long to do up when you just need a little more. Why not add some
pickles, celery, and cucumbers to that free food list too?

Quoted message said:

all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Hrm, in my experience the banning of all of these was just too much. I
ditched the "don't drink asparteme beverages" rule almost right away and
glad I did. I actually find the Atkins LC bars a godsend as well, for those
times I craved just a little something tasty between meals, and just about
grabed some of my wife's food. Stay clear of the endulge ones though, they
are too small and high carb for early on...

Looking at your menu restrictions, I think it's going to be tough...the
problem is that you're going to be constantly thinking about what foods fit
into which category. While it's good to know what you're eating and how
much of it (of course), such a restricted free foods list is going to keep
you dissapointed.

Quoted message said:

try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Cut that beer out forever and you won't regret it...

Quoted message said:

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

If you feel they have a place in your plan, you might not feel so bad when
you go to use them. I'm interested in how you described them, as "fake".
My experiences with them have been quite good, as long as you check out the
nutritional section. The Atkins Advantage bars in particular were nice.
And while I'm on the topic of product placements, I found the Carb Light BBQ
sauce really good at adding some spice yet familiarity to steak/chicken.
It's relativly low carb (1.3 or so per 15mls), and something that it easy
enough to eyeball so you're not stuck weighing and measuring it all.

Quoted message said:

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For

Always the best way, we're all different and need different lists. Thought
I would share my thoughts...

The best of luck, see you in a month,

phan

Hi Eric,

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

Have you looked at the South Beach plan? It's very similar to Atkins,
but in a lower-fat mode. It concentrates on lower-glycemic index
fruits and vegetables and lean meats. You might find it's more
acceptable to you than the higher fat versions of LC. You can find
more information about it at http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/

I DON'T follow this plan - I have no trouble with higher fat standard
LC plans - but I have friends who have done really well on it.

Aramanth

Quoted message said:

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Regards,

Eric Mark

269/269/250 for Turkey Day/210

Good luck Eric. Seems you have a good head about yourself. Don't give up on
the LC as you already know the benefits of it. Find your perfect 'slot'
where you are eating the right kinds of foods and portions AND enjoying it!
You got a brain, use it!

Rock on buddy!

[email hidden] (Eric Mark) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Greetings all.

Today, Oct. 19, I start about my 5th or 6th attempt to stick to a
low-carb eating plan. I've posted here before, at the start of
previous, similar journeys, none of which lasted very long.

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out.

Why does it have to be very high fat or low fat? You can do LC with a
moderate amount of fat.

My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many

Quoted message said:

benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

Not clear on what you mean by pushing yourself to the point of getting
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger. There are so many foods
to choose from on LC, even during induction, I don't see why this
would be a problem. For example, for breakfast, you can have a
omelete. If you don't like eggs, you can have a LC shake. For lunch,
you can have a caesar salad with grilled chicken or shrimp. For
dinner, a salad and baked salmon with green beans. None of these
strike me as being so loaded with fat that they would make one queasy.

Quoted message said:

I returned to work today after a 10-day vacation during which I ate
freely, though not to ridiculous excess. I was mildly disappointed,
but not surprised, that I weighed in this morning at 269 LBS. (6'2"
male)

That's about the point at which I go into "must lose" mode by
instinct....and I generally 'do' lose some weight, whether by LC or
other means, but it always creeps back on when I slip up or relax.

Two more factors inspired me to return to the fold: I saw my sister
and BIL while on vacation, both of whom have lost 50-60 pounds on LC,
and kept off all but a pound or two. They are for the most part happy
with LC, and very plaeased with the results. Also I turned 40 earlier
this month, and it stinks to be fat as well as middle-aged.

Anyway, enough about me. Here's my plan of action this time around,
bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

I plan to concentrate more on what I don't eat than what I do. Not
according to any specific plan, but based on my previous LC experience
and knowing what sets off my appetite trigger and binge-mode.

I plan to jump start the weight loss with an Induction-style shock to
the system, that will last till at least all the Halloween candy
disappears from sight in early November. After that I will modify the
plan to some extent, but intend to remain adamant about not eating
certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Are you sure you did Atkins? Did you read his books? One of the
great things is that you don't need to consistently weigh food. You
quickly learn that foods like steak, fish, chicken, eggs, have zero
carbs, no need to measure them at all. Vegs like broccoli,
asparagus, green beans, a cup has about 5g or so. It doesn;t take
long to get a feel for this and it becomes very simple. A little
pocket carb guide works wonders too.

Banned foods for Jump-Start phase:

Quoted message said:

all sugar and sugar-based snacks
bread
cereal
pizza
pretzels
pasta
pancakes
potatoes
rice
peas
carrots
corn
tomatoes
fruit (including berries, for now)
beer and wine
all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Strict moderation for Jump-Start:
Cream
cheese
cream cheese
broccoli
lettuce
green beans
cauliflower
cucumber
spinach
olive oil
vodka/whiskey
coffee/tea

why strict moderation on things like broccoli, lettuce, cucumbers,
spinach, etc? During Atkins induction, they are limited to keep carbs
at 20g a day. If you think you're having problems because you don't
like too much fat, then if anything, I would increase the amounts of
LC vegetables, not restrict them more. Even if you skipped strict
induction and went with more LC vegs, taking the carbs up to maybe 40g
or so from the start, I think you can successfully lose weight. And
since your having problems, I'd certainly skip the alcohol until
you've lost a reasonable amount of weight.

Quoted message said:

Moderation for Jump-Start:
red meat
bacon/ham
eggs

Free foods for Jump-Start:
Fish
poultry
Lots and lots and lots of water

Once the first phase is over, I will consider adding in small portions
of starchier veggies, such as peas, carrots, tomatoes, etc., as well
as berries and possibly melon slices. (Though I must be careful with
'anything' that's sweet.) I will buy a box of Splenda and might even
try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For
instance, I can easily polish off close to a pound of cheese and more
than a cup of cream in a day, just nibbling and sipping, if I'm not
careful, so they go on the "strict moderation" list rather than mere
"moderation," where they would go on most LC plans.

If you can eat a pound of cheese and a cup of cream a day, I don't see
how the fat in burgers or pork chops would be a problem for you. But
certainly eating that much cheese and cream adds a lot in the way of
calories, which at some point do matter, which is one reason Atkins
restricts cheese during induction, to I think 4 ounces a day.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my goal is to drop at least 19 pounds in the next 37 days, and
sit down to a Thanksgiving feast on Nov. 25 weighing no more than 250
LBS.

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Regards,

Eric Mark

269/269/250 for Turkey Day/210

I'd like to hear more on the fats.

On 19 Oct 2004 14:42:45 -0700, Eric Mark wrote:
/snip/

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

I pushed too much on fat my first attempt (last spring). Now I'm having
more protein, especially meat (bacon, tuna in oil). Less milk fats (cream,
yogurt, creamy cheese, stilton etc), more salty or sharp or textured ones
(almond butter, real butter, coconut milk, pinon nuts, sesame seeds).

Not sure how this works, but I think some combinations 'cut' the fat, such
as salt or acid. I made some cream of asparagus soup using coconut milk and
canned asparagus, which felt a bit too fatty, rich, yecch. So I added some
lemon juice and it became wonderful. Coconut milk as curry sauce, with hot
spices, doesn't seem fatty at all. Ranch dressing with buttermilk, sour
cream, mayo, and dill doesn't seem fatty, it's too sharp. Same with oil and
vinegar sorts of dressing, with lots of herbs. Especially served over sharp
salad greens. Also Mexican food with the spices would be good, if you could
avoid the carbs: melted cheese in hot sauce ("a naked enchilada", ie no
tortilla?), a taco and discard the wrapper.

Serving things hot helps: cream in hot chocolate, creamy soups or sauces.

I haven't tried this as a fat source, but a friend made some capsules
containing olive oil (as a laxative). It wasn't hard to make, the 'capsule
maker' thingy was about $12 at the local organic produce store.

I'm not sure whether the appeal of fat varies with the kind of fat -- mono,
poly, etc etc. Might be worth checking. Things that are solid at room
temperature, are more appetizing when hot/non-solid (butter, cream, etc).

Skinny

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,

Well, I think that you are making same mistake that my wife did when trying
for the first time. You think that "not doing low-fat" means that you have
to eat a lot of pure grease.

But in fact, it is rather about choosing non low-fat version, e.g. no
low-fat cheese, no low-fat milk etc. Other than that, you are not required
to eat a lot of fat, just stick to approved list of food. Just for the
record, LC works as either high-fat or high-protein. The key is to reduce
carbs... most favorably by replacing carb and calorie dense foods with
veggies with low density of both.

Quoted message said:

Strict moderation for Jump-Start:
broccoli
lettuce
green beans
cauliflower
cucumber
spinach
olive oil

I see no reason for strict moderation of these ^

Other than that, your plan sounds reasonable. But hardest thing is to stick
with it for at least one year 🙂

Mirek

Bingo!

*********************
"Ignoramus12052"

Quoted message said:

Can it be that when fat made you nauseous, that it is in fact the
point to stop eating?

"Phantoz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Eric,

I'm not any kind of low carb expert, so take everything here with a grain of
salt. As I mentioned in a previous post, I did a low carb diet (followed
more closely the Curves diet than the Atkins one, but lots of similarities)
for about a month, consisting of 2-3 weeks of induction.

I decided to follow up on your post because I have a similar size (was 6'1"
259, white male, 26) though everyone is different so perhaps none of this
applies.

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins

I don't think you need to do low-fat, a moderate-fat approach worked for me.
For instance, I still pick up lean ground beef, and eat plenty of chicken,
and everything that is higher fat (e.g. sausages, bacon, and all sorts of
piggie products) is usually well drained. I too had problems, though mostly
with the pork fat *smell* permeating my clothes and the house.

One technique I found helpful was to hit the gym hard for 25 mins or so,
doing resistance training, then go home and eat right away. Usually the
smell didn't both me, my body was just craving fuel of any kind, so it was
easy to put food down. The second was to eat plenty of salads made up of
cucumbers, peppers, onions, and herbed cheese (e.g. a dill havarti is really
nice cubed). This was a great chaser to a higher fat meal..

Quoted message said:

bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

Now protein powder, that churns my stomach 🙂

Quoted message said:

certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Portion controlling just about made me quit. It's tough to control
everything and just eat as much fish and chicken as free foods, they take
too long to do up when you just need a little more. Why not add some
pickles, celery, and cucumbers to that free food list too?

Quoted message said:

all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Hrm, in my experience the banning of all of these was just too much. I
ditched the "don't drink asparteme beverages" rule almost right away and
glad I did. I actually find the Atkins LC bars a godsend as well, for those
times I craved just a little something tasty between meals, and just about
grabed some of my wife's food. Stay clear of the endulge ones though, they
are too small and high carb for early on...

Looking at your menu restrictions, I think it's going to be tough...the
problem is that you're going to be constantly thinking about what foods fit
into which category. While it's good to know what you're eating and how
much of it (of course), such a restricted free foods list is going to keep
you dissapointed.

Quoted message said:

try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Cut that beer out forever and you won't regret it...

Quoted message said:

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

If you feel they have a place in your plan, you might not feel so bad when
you go to use them. I'm interested in how you described them, as "fake".
My experiences with them have been quite good, as long as you check out the
nutritional section. The Atkins Advantage bars in particular were nice.
And while I'm on the topic of product placements, I found the Carb Light BBQ
sauce really good at adding some spice yet familiarity to steak/chicken.
It's relativly low carb (1.3 or so per 15mls), and something that it easy
enough to eyeball so you're not stuck weighing and measuring it all.

Quoted message said:

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For

Always the best way, we're all different and need different lists. Thought
I would share my thoughts...

The best of luck, see you in a month,

phan

I agree with everything you said. BTW, you do sound like a LC expert to me!

You forgot celery. Celery is really good for you. Lots of fibre
(which you'll need) and not v much carb at all. Remember to buy
celery when you next to the supermarket.

eric,
you CAN reduce the amount of fat you are eating and remain low carb,
many of us do so!

--
" i warned him about this war. i had deep misgivings about this war.
mr. president, you had better prepare the american people for
casualties."
the president then told him, "Oh, no, we're not going to have any
casualties."
..................................................rev.pat robinson
10-19-04

"Eric Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Greetings all.
:
: Today, Oct. 19, I start about my 5th or 6th attempt to stick to a
: low-carb eating plan. I've posted here before, at the start of
: previous, similar journeys, none of which lasted very long.
:
: My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take
the
: fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
: trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
: pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
: benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping
'some'
: control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I
get
: queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.
:
: I returned to work today after a 10-day vacation during which I
ate
: freely, though not to ridiculous excess. I was mildly
disappointed,
: but not surprised, that I weighed in this morning at 269 LBS.
(6'2"
: male)
:
: That's about the point at which I go into "must lose" mode by
: instinct....and I generally 'do' lose some weight, whether by LC
or
: other means, but it always creeps back on when I slip up or relax.
:
: Two more factors inspired me to return to the fold: I saw my
sister
: and BIL while on vacation, both of whom have lost 50-60 pounds on
LC,
: and kept off all but a pound or two. They are for the most part
happy
: with LC, and very plaeased with the results. Also I turned 40
earlier
: this month, and it stinks to be fat as well as middle-aged.
:
: Anyway, enough about me. Here's my plan of action this time
around,
: bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
: results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.
:
: I plan to concentrate more on what I don't eat than what I do. Not
: according to any specific plan, but based on my previous LC
experience
: and knowing what sets off my appetite trigger and binge-mode.
:
: I plan to jump start the weight loss with an Induction-style shock
to
: the system, that will last till at least all the Halloween candy
: disappears from sight in early November. After that I will modify
the
: plan to some extent, but intend to remain adamant about not eating
: certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to
consistently
: weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper
is
: not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
: except fish, poultry and lean meat.
:
: Banned foods for Jump-Start phase:
: all sugar and sugar-based snacks
: bread
: cereal
: pizza
: pretzels
: pasta
: pancakes
: potatoes
: rice
: peas
: carrots
: corn
: tomatoes
: fruit (including berries, for now)
: beer and wine
: all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
: all artificial sweeteners
:
: Strict moderation for Jump-Start:
: Cream
: cheese
: cream cheese
: broccoli
: lettuce
: green beans
: cauliflower
: cucumber
: spinach
: olive oil
: vodka/whiskey
: coffee/tea
:
: Moderation for Jump-Start:
: red meat
: bacon/ham
: eggs
:
: Free foods for Jump-Start:
: Fish
: poultry
: Lots and lots and lots of water
:
: Once the first phase is over, I will consider adding in small
portions
: of starchier veggies, such as peas, carrots, tomatoes, etc., as
well
: as berries and possibly melon slices. (Though I must be careful
with
: 'anything' that's sweet.) I will buy a box of Splenda and might
even
: try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off
steering
: clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back
in
: the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a
pumpernickel
: bagel.
:
: Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy
bars
: and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and
sample
: them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
: completely off plan.
:
: Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For
: instance, I can easily polish off close to a pound of cheese and
more
: than a cup of cream in a day, just nibbling and sipping, if I'm
not
: careful, so they go on the "strict moderation" list rather than
mere
: "moderation," where they would go on most LC plans.
:
: Anyway, my goal is to drop at least 19 pounds in the next 37 days,
and
: sit down to a Thanksgiving feast on Nov. 25 weighing no more than
250
: LBS.
:
: Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
: you.
:
: Regards,
:
: Eric Mark
:
: 269/269/250 for Turkey Day/210

Saffire <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Good luck, Eric!

Thanks. Two days down, no problems yet....

jbuch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Butter....
Smart Balance Margarine .... instead of or in addition to butter
French Onion Dip on asparagus or broccolli
Vegetable Dips of all kinds on cooked veggies
Sour cream on whatever you like
Avocados full of nice oils and good taste.... in salads or in dips

3 or 4 ounces of full fat real cheese Blue Cheese, Jarlsburg, Cheddar,
Swiss, Goat, Mozarella, Gouda (smoked)............

You can look at the book "Dr. Atkins Quick & Easy New Diet Cookbook"
by Robert C ATkins MD & Veronica Atkins ISBN 0743260007 (Veronica is
described as a "master gourmet cook"😉 full of very tasty:

Appetisers
Soups
Salads
Breakfasts
Seafood
Poultry
Pork
Lamb
Veal
Beef
Vegetables
Sauces

So, it is tasty stuff to eat by the originator Atkins and his gourmet
wife with all kinds of really useful information about acceptable foods
at each and every stage of your Atkins process.

I take it that you don't read much of the stuff on diets that you follow
and like to "WING IT" as many, many people actually do.

Is that right?

No. I have read everything I could find on low-carb, and also other
diets and eating plans.

Atkins' Diet Revolution is tough to get through, though it starts off
well. Protein Power did a pretty good job explaining the science
behind LC. No White at Night was interesting but too simplistic. CAD
had too much fake-feeling feel-good psycho-babble to suit me, though
it sounded like an interesting plan. My problem would be that my
"reward meal" would make the table groan. I've only studied South
Beach from browsing in bookstores, true.

Quoted message said:

You constitutionally can't follow someone elses's guidelines.

OK, on this I must plead the Fifth, lest I plead guilty.

Quoted message said:

You don't have to broil slabs of fat. You can eat real good.

I hope so; I'm trying.

Quoted message said:

Watch out for the traps of hidden carbs.... they knock you for a loop in
killing weight loss -- I know because I got caught myself in this trap.

JIm

Thanks for the advice.

Eric M

"Phantoz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Eric,

I'm not any kind of low carb expert, so take everything here with a grain of
salt. As I mentioned in a previous post, I did a low carb diet (followed
more closely the Curves diet than the Atkins one, but lots of similarities)
for about a month, consisting of 2-3 weeks of induction.

I decided to follow up on your post because I have a similar size (was 6'1"
259, white male, 26) though everyone is different so perhaps none of this
applies.

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins

I don't think you need to do low-fat, a moderate-fat approach worked for me.
For instance, I still pick up lean ground beef, and eat plenty of chicken,
and everything that is higher fat (e.g. sausages, bacon, and all sorts of
piggie products) is usually well drained. I too had problems, though mostly
with the pork fat *smell* permeating my clothes and the house.

Sounds encouraging. I treat meat much the same way you do. One of the
omens for me that full-bore Atkins would not work for me was a recent
thread on this newsgroup in which posters went on and on about how
wonderful the fattiest chopped meat tastest, how they liked to drizzle
the grease droppings on other food, etc. It damn near made me queasy;
there was a similar thread extolling the virtues of nibbling all the
fat off bacon slices. preferably raw or close to it.

Yuck.

I eat ground beef between 85% and 93%, medium-well, I trim most of the
visible fat off steaks and chops, I prefer chicken breats to legs or
wings, etc. OTOH, I love high-fat dairy such as cream and cheese; lots
of fat, lots of flavor, no nauseating greasy mess to cook, smell, eat
and clean up.

Quoted message said:

One technique I found helpful was to hit the gym hard for 25 mins or so,
doing resistance training, then go home and eat right away. Usually the
smell didn't both me, my body was just craving fuel of any kind, so it was
easy to put food down. The second was to eat plenty of salads made up of
cucumbers, peppers, onions, and herbed cheese (e.g. a dill havarti is really
nice cubed). This was a great chaser to a higher fat meal..

Quoted message said:

bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

Now protein powder, that churns my stomach 🙂

Quoted message said:

certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Portion controlling just about made me quit. It's tough to control
everything and just eat as much fish and chicken as free foods, they take
too long to do up when you just need a little more. Why not add some
pickles, celery, and cucumbers to that free food list too?

Quoted message said:

all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Hrm, in my experience the banning of all of these was just too much. I
ditched the "don't drink asparteme beverages" rule almost right away and
glad I did. I actually find the Atkins LC bars a godsend as well, for those
times I craved just a little something tasty between meals, and just about
grabed some of my wife's food. Stay clear of the endulge ones though, they
are too small and high carb for early on...

Looking at your menu restrictions, I think it's going to be tough...the
problem is that you're going to be constantly thinking about what foods fit
into which category. While it's good to know what you're eating and how
much of it (of course), such a restricted free foods list is going to keep
you dissapointed.

Maybe true; I did not note as clearly as I should have that the list
will change and be modified once I drop the first 15-20 pounds after
the first few weeks. For instance, leafy green veggies---which I love,
especially if they are fresh---will move from "strict moderation" to
"moderation."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Cut that beer out forever and you won't regret it...

True, no doubt.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

If you feel they have a place in your plan, you might not feel so bad when
you go to use them. I'm interested in how you described them, as "fake".
My experiences with them have been quite good, as long as you check out the
nutritional section. The Atkins Advantage bars in particular were nice.
And while I'm on the topic of product placements, I found the Carb Light BBQ
sauce really good at adding some spice yet familiarity to steak/chicken.
It's relativly low carb (1.3 or so per 15mls), and something that it easy
enough to eyeball so you're not stuck weighing and measuring it all.

Quoted message said:

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For

Always the best way, we're all different and need different lists. Thought
I would share my thoughts...

The best of luck, see you in a month,

phan

Thanks. It's great to see so much support here.

ERM

Aramanth Dawe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi Eric,

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

Have you looked at the South Beach plan? It's very similar to Atkins,
but in a lower-fat mode. It concentrates on lower-glycemic index
fruits and vegetables and lean meats. You might find it's more
acceptable to you than the higher fat versions of LC. You can find
more information about it at http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/

I DON'T follow this plan - I have no trouble with higher fat standard
LC plans - but I have friends who have done really well on it.

Aramanth

Thanks for the advice. I might try South Beach at some point if my
current plan does not work out. Right now it's too trendy to suit me;
a purely irrational reaction, I know....

ERM

"John Smyth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please wish me luck and success, and the same right back at all of
you.

Regards,

Eric Mark

269/269/250 for Turkey Day/210

Good luck Eric. Seems you have a good head about yourself. Don't give up on
the LC as you already know the benefits of it. Find your perfect 'slot'
where you are eating the right kinds of foods and portions AND enjoying it!
You got a brain, use it!

Rock on buddy!

Thanks.

[email hidden] (Chet Hayes) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Eric Mark) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Greetings all.

Today, Oct. 19, I start about my 5th or 6th attempt to stick to a
low-carb eating plan. I've posted here before, at the start of
previous, similar journeys, none of which lasted very long.

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out.

Why does it have to be very high fat or low fat? You can do LC with a
moderate amount of fat.

Exactly. That's my plan. But it's a delicate balancing act, one I've
never really mastered. Whenever fat intake decreases, carbs tend to
creep up, dragging increased appetite along. At least that's been my
experience.

Quoted message said:

My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many

Quoted message said:

benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

Not clear on what you mean by pushing yourself to the point of getting
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger. There are so many foods
to choose from on LC, even during induction, I don't see why this
would be a problem. For example, for breakfast, you can have a
omelete. If you don't like eggs, you can have a LC shake. For lunch,
you can have a caesar salad with grilled chicken or shrimp. For
dinner, a salad and baked salmon with green beans. None of these
strike me as being so loaded with fat that they would make one queasy.

Fair enough, though I don't much like salmon. It's funny: whe I'm not
doing LC, I like eggs, since I don't eat them every day. The last few
times I tried LC, though, I reached a point each time at which just
the thought of an egg, let alone the sight of one, was enough to turn
me off. It's an ongoing struggle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I returned to work today after a 10-day vacation during which I ate
freely, though not to ridiculous excess. I was mildly disappointed,
but not surprised, that I weighed in this morning at 269 LBS. (6'2"
male)

That's about the point at which I go into "must lose" mode by
instinct....and I generally 'do' lose some weight, whether by LC or
other means, but it always creeps back on when I slip up or relax.

Two more factors inspired me to return to the fold: I saw my sister
and BIL while on vacation, both of whom have lost 50-60 pounds on LC,
and kept off all but a pound or two. They are for the most part happy
with LC, and very plaeased with the results. Also I turned 40 earlier
this month, and it stinks to be fat as well as middle-aged.

Anyway, enough about me. Here's my plan of action this time around,
bearing in mind that I have read and tried (with at best mixed
results) to follow the Atkins, Protein Power, and No White diets.

I plan to concentrate more on what I don't eat than what I do. Not
according to any specific plan, but based on my previous LC experience
and knowing what sets off my appetite trigger and binge-mode.

I plan to jump start the weight loss with an Induction-style shock to
the system, that will last till at least all the Halloween candy
disappears from sight in early November. After that I will modify the
plan to some extent, but intend to remain adamant about not eating
certain foods at all. I don't have the time or energy to consistently
weigh food---that's one of the big reasons I decided Atkins proper is
not for me---but I will try to control portion sizes of everything
except fish, poultry and lean meat.

Are you sure you did Atkins? Did you read his books? One of the
great things is that you don't need to consistently weigh food. You
quickly learn that foods like steak, fish, chicken, eggs, have zero
carbs, no need to measure them at all. Vegs like broccoli,
asparagus, green beans, a cup has about 5g or so. It doesn;t take
long to get a feel for this and it becomes very simple. A little
pocket carb guide works wonders too.

If you say so. All I know is it was tough for me. And yes I did read
DANDR.

Quoted message said:

Banned foods for Jump-Start phase:

Quoted message said:

all sugar and sugar-based snacks
bread
cereal
pizza
pretzels
pasta
pancakes
potatoes
rice
peas
carrots
corn
tomatoes
fruit (including berries, for now)
beer and wine
all "LC" bars, shakes and assorted crapola
all artificial sweeteners

Strict moderation for Jump-Start:
Cream
cheese
cream cheese
broccoli
lettuce
green beans
cauliflower
cucumber
spinach
olive oil
vodka/whiskey
coffee/tea

why strict moderation on things like broccoli, lettuce, cucumbers,
spinach, etc? During Atkins induction, they are limited to keep carbs
at 20g a day. If you think you're having problems because you don't
like too much fat, then if anything, I would increase the amounts of
LC vegetables, not restrict them more. Even if you skipped strict
induction and went with more LC vegs, taking the carbs up to maybe 40g
or so from the start, I think you can successfully lose weight. And
since your having problems, I'd certainly skip the alcohol until
you've lost a reasonable amount of weight.

Good advice. I intend to bump up the green veggies once I finish the
first phase of the plan. Again, portion control is an issue. If I'm
hungry and they're fresh, I can easily go way over my carb limit just
gorging on veggies, as an appetizer, salad or main course. I can even
down a can of string beans packed in juice, (about 15 carbs), without
thinking twice. People who say they eat at or near Induction carb
levels, yet still ingest more veggies than ever before, make me
scratch my head and rub my belly in wonder.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Moderation for Jump-Start:
red meat
bacon/ham
eggs

Free foods for Jump-Start:
Fish
poultry
Lots and lots and lots of water

Once the first phase is over, I will consider adding in small portions
of starchier veggies, such as peas, carrots, tomatoes, etc., as well
as berries and possibly melon slices. (Though I must be careful with
'anything' that's sweet.) I will buy a box of Splenda and might even
try one of the LC beers, but my gut tells me I'm better off steering
clear of that completely. At some point, I might try to phase back in
the once-in-a-blue moon whole grain treat, such as half a pumpernickel
bagel.

Like everyone else, I plan to never eat any of the fake LC candy bars
and treats, but in the long run I will probably break down and sample
them on rare occasions, as a last-ditch defense against going
completely off plan.

Note that I used my LC experience to come up with this list. For
instance, I can easily polish off close to a pound of cheese and more
than a cup of cream in a day, just nibbling and sipping, if I'm not
careful, so they go on the "strict moderation" list rather than mere
"moderation," where they would go on most LC plans.

If you can eat a pound of cheese and a cup of cream a day, I don't see
how the fat in burgers or pork chops would be a problem for you. But
certainly eating that much cheese and cream adds a lot in the way of
calories, which at some point do matter, which is one reason Atkins
restricts cheese during induction, to I think 4 ounces a day.

Yep. That's a real problem for me. To me, dairy fat---which I
love---has a different feel and taste than does greasy cooked animal
fat, which I dislike, though I can tolerate a certain amount of it.
It's two different, er, animals.

ERM

Skinny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'd like to hear more on the fats.

On 19 Oct 2004 14:42:45 -0700, Eric Mark wrote:
/snip/

Quoted message said:

My problem has been that I reach a point at which I cannot take the
fat; it makes me almost nauseous just to think of it. Conversely,
trying to do LC and low-fat at the same time won't work, as Atkins
pointed out. My ongoing quest is to find a way to utilize the many
benefits of LC---weight-loss and otherwise---while also keeping 'some'
control of fat intake and not pushing myself to the point where I get
queasy at the sight of a pork chop or burger.

I pushed too much on fat my first attempt (last spring). Now I'm having
more protein, especially meat (bacon, tuna in oil). Less milk fats (cream,
yogurt, creamy cheese, stilton etc), more salty or sharp or textured ones
(almond butter, real butter, coconut milk, pinon nuts, sesame seeds).

Not sure how this works, but I think some combinations 'cut' the fat, such
as salt or acid. I made some cream of asparagus soup using coconut milk and
canned asparagus, which felt a bit too fatty, rich, yecch. So I added some
lemon juice and it became wonderful. Coconut milk as curry sauce, with hot
spices, doesn't seem fatty at all. Ranch dressing with buttermilk, sour
cream, mayo, and dill doesn't seem fatty, it's too sharp. Same with oil and
vinegar sorts of dressing, with lots of herbs. Especially served over sharp
salad greens. Also Mexican food with the spices would be good, if you could
avoid the carbs: melted cheese in hot sauce ("a naked enchilada", ie no
tortilla?), a taco and discard the wrapper.

Serving things hot helps: cream in hot chocolate, creamy soups or sauces.

I haven't tried this as a fat source, but a friend made some capsules
containing olive oil (as a laxative). It wasn't hard to make, the 'capsule
maker' thingy was about $12 at the local organic produce store.

I'm not sure whether the appeal of fat varies with the kind of fat -- mono,
poly, etc etc. Might be worth checking. Things that are solid at room
temperature, are more appetizing when hot/non-solid (butter, cream, etc).

Skinny

Interesting ideas, especially about serving things hot. I'll save this
post for reference.

Thanks.

ERM