Hunger sucks

Hmmm.....

You're practicing your writing. Better than watching the tube, huh?

🙂

Luna wrote:
|| The thread title "Hunger is a good thing" is stupid. Hunger sucks.
|| Ask starving people in third world countries if hunger is a good
|| thing. I've been holding back on a lot of things I've wanted to
|| post lately, because I've been going through nicotine withdrawals
|| and it's hard to tell sometimes if my feelings are valid and
|| appropriate, or just the withdrawals making me crazy, and I didn't
|| want to say anything I'd regret later.
||
|| But I have to say that lately I have been really depressed about
|| just the fact that obesity exists. It's such a [censored] stupid thing
|| that we have so much food we actually get fat, when for the vast,
|| VAST majority of human history the primary struggle was to get
|| enough food to survive. And it's still that way in many parts of
|| the world. I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved
|| all of humaniy's current problems, we'd invent a whole batch of new
|| ones the minute his back was turned, and probably be worse off than
|| when we started.
||
|| I had an epiphany today at the grocery store, while visually
|| drowning in the obscene variety and abundance of food available.
|| Our culture is screwed up. A lot. When there's so much food
|| available it loses its value. We forget how important it is. We
|| view it as the enemy, the thing that keeps us fat, when it isn't the
|| fault of the food, it's the fault of our perceptions and values.
||
|| Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a
|| ritual of giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't
|| believe in god, I'll thank the animal I'm eating or the agricultural
|| workers who grow my produce, I'll thank the truck drivers, and the
|| stock boys, etc. I'll just remind myself in general to be grateful
|| to live in an age and country of abundance, remind myself that it
|| wasn't always this way and it still isn't this way everywhere in the
|| world, and remind myself not to take even one bite of food for
|| granted. Having to struggle to lose weight is a luxury in the eyes
|| of those who are truly hungry.
||
|| --
|| Michelle Levin
|| http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick
||
|| I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3
|| flaws.

Disclaimer: all pronouns are generic

Luna said:

The thread title "Hunger is a good thing" is stupid. Hunger sucks. Ask
starving people in third world countries if hunger is a good thing.

Starvation sucks, but hunger, the true signal that it is time to eat, is a
good thing. The ability to allow oneself a bit of time to feel that their
stomach is indeed truly empty, is indeed a *good* thing. The reason being,
because being NOT in a third world country, chances are high that the
hunger will soon be gone. It's still even then, not a true hunger, because
it's wayyyyy more temporary than those in 3rd world countries experience.

Quoted message said:

But I have to say that lately I have been really depressed about just the
fact that obesity exists. It's such a [censored] stupid thing that we have
so much food we actually get fat, when for the vast, VAST majority of
human history the primary struggle was to get enough food to survive. And
it's still that way in many parts of the world.

Exactly my point. We have so much food that the notion that we should have
a *short* period of time (waking hours) that we have an empty stomach
freaks us (the colloquial 'us'😉 out. It's a mindset pounded into our brain
so much that we've become fat. (I'm in Canada, but the availability of
food is pretty much the same as the US).

Quoted message said:

I had an epiphany today at the grocery store, while visually drowning in
the obscene variety and abundance of food available. Our culture is
screwed up. A lot. When there's so much food available it loses its
value. We forget how important it is. We view it as the enemy, the thing
that keeps us fat, when it isn't the fault of the food, it's the fault of
our perceptions and values.

Right on the money, Luna.

Quoted message said:

Having to struggle to lose weight is a luxury
in the eyes of those who are truly hungry.

And for us to have an empty stomach for a few hours is not the agony that
our culture would love for us to believe.

Luna said:

I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of humaniy's
current problems,

Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a ritual of
giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't believe in god,

hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 00:26:05 GMT, [email hidden] (The Queen of

Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of humaniy's
current problems,

Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a ritual of
giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't believe in god,

hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?

It is an interesting juxtoposition ain't it. <VBEG>

Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
---------

Quoted message said:

I had an epiphany today at the grocery store, while visually drowning in
the obscene variety and abundance of food available. Our culture is
screwed up. A lot.

I've always thought that there was something fundamentally weirdass about
a country where some people pay a premium for low-calorie foods and others
can't afford to buy enough calories to feed their families.

Dan
325/211/180
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of humaniy's
current problems,

Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a ritual of
giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't believe in god,

hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?

Huh, maybe I should have said that it's a BIG if in the first statement.
But I thought it was pretty clear that it was not meant literally as
something that was actually likely to happen. I could just as easily have
said if aliens came down and solved our problems with superior technology,
or if a sorceror appeared and solved our problems with magic, both of which
are still illustrations, not actual scientific hypotheses. On rereading
yet again, I still think it was obvious that I wasn't being literal in my
first statement. Obvious to anyone who isn't hard of thinking, anyway.
I'll try to be more sensitive to your disabilities in the future.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Quoted message said:

Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
---------

Quoted message said:

I had an epiphany today at the grocery store, while visually drowning in
the obscene variety and abundance of food available. Our culture is
screwed up. A lot.

I grew up poor. Very poor. We had commodity foods (before foodstamps). Not
much choice. But I got fat on that food. High carbs, high fat. Cheap food.
It was years before I ate fruit, vegetables, and meat. It's easy to be fat and
starving.

And many people are obese because buying starches is cheaper than meat. I'm
not talking about junk food. I'm talking about rice, potatoes, and flour.
It's not all black and white.

Yvonne

Luna wrote:
|| In article <[email hidden]>,
|| [email hidden] (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
||
||| Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||
|||| I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of
|||| humaniy's current problems,
||||
|||| Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a
|||| ritual of giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't
|||| believe in god,
|||
||| hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?
|||
||
|| Huh, maybe I should have said that it's a BIG if in the first
|| statement. But I thought it was pretty clear that it was not meant
|| literally as something that was actually likely to happen. I could
|| just as easily have said if aliens came down and solved our problems
|| with superior technology, or if a sorceror appeared and solved our
|| problems with magic, both of which are still illustrations, not
|| actual scientific hypotheses. On rereading yet again, I still think
|| it was obvious that I wasn't being literal in my first statement.
|| Obvious to anyone who isn't hard of thinking, anyway. I'll try to be
|| more sensitive to your disabilities in the future.

It was obvious.

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of humaniy's
current problems,

Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a ritual of
giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't believe in god,

hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?

Huh, maybe I should have said that it's a BIG if in the first statement.
But I thought it was pretty clear that it was not meant literally as
something that was actually likely to happen. I could just as easily have
said if aliens came down and solved our problems with superior technology,
or if a sorceror appeared and solved our problems with magic, both of which
are still illustrations, not actual scientific hypotheses. On rereading
yet again, I still think it was obvious that I wasn't being literal in my
first statement. Obvious to anyone who isn't hard of thinking, anyway.
I'll try to be more sensitive to your disabilities in the future.

it's not my disability, dear. it's just bad writing.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:

> I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of humaniy's
> current problems,
>
> Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a ritual of
> giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I don't believe in god,

hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?

Huh, maybe I should have said that it's a BIG if in the first statement.
But I thought it was pretty clear that it was not meant literally as
something that was actually likely to happen. I could just as easily have
said if aliens came down and solved our problems with superior technology,
or if a sorceror appeared and solved our problems with magic, both of which
are still illustrations, not actual scientific hypotheses. On rereading
yet again, I still think it was obvious that I wasn't being literal in my
first statement. Obvious to anyone who isn't hard of thinking, anyway.
I'll try to be more sensitive to your disabilities in the future.

it's not my disability, dear. it's just bad writing.

There was nothing wrong with my writing. It's just bad reading on your
part. Do you also have trouble understanding that when people say "Oh my
god!" they may not actually be starting a prayer? Do metaphors and
similies trip you up as well? If you read "There were stars in her eyes"
do you take it literally? I have to wonder, since you can't tell the
difference between a hyperbolic illustration and a statement of fact. It's
ok, you'll figure it out eventually.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Nice post Luna--withdrawl seems to agree with you.

We should always be thankful for everything even the bad. I think the
worst thing you can ever THINK is that it can't get worse than it is.
Cause Life, Nature, Chance, Destiny, the Gods will prove to you just
how utterly unimaginitive you are. Even death is a good thing because
there are many things more painful and terrible than death.

And yes foods have become the enemy but not through each consumers
fault. Most of us never have any control over what we buy. Organic
foods are very expensive and many people don't have the luxury of
voting with their wallets. And you don't really know what you're
buying. I read an article years ago that said it is impossible to buy
organic corn--absolutely all of it had been crossbred with genetically
engineered corn. And we all have found that labels lie and decieve.

Other markets show the same problem--cars. DO people really not want
air bags, curtian side air bags, crumble zone, BS brakes, DTR lights,
automatic wipers, and auto lights? These things promote safer driving
and have been proven to save more lives. ANybody out there into dying?
Yet they all cost more more. In the past and even now they are LUXURY
items--not meant for the lower class who can't afford it. We can't
vote with our wallets and control the manufacturing chain the way the
capitalistic-free market is supposed to work. That's why inferior
products usually become the norm instead of the best.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/275/Jul-269/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
Maint.-70 carbs/day (CCLL=50-60)

Do you ever talk or write about Santa Claus? Or the Easter Bunny? Just
because one doesn't believe that God exists doesn't mean one cannot discuss
God hypothetically. God may not exist as an entity but there is no doubt
that God exists as a concept in people's minds.

In news:[email hidden],
The Queen of Cans and Jars <[email hidden]> stated
|
| it's not my disability, dear. it's just bad writing.

In article <[email hidden]>,

DigitalVinyl said:

Nice post Luna--withdrawl seems to agree with you.

We should always be thankful for everything even the bad. I think the
worst thing you can ever THINK is that it can't get worse than it is.
Cause Life, Nature, Chance, Destiny, the Gods will prove to you just
how utterly unimaginitive you are. Even death is a good thing because
there are many things more painful and terrible than death.

And yes foods have become the enemy but not through each consumers
fault. Most of us never have any control over what we buy.

Huh whah?

Quoted message said:

Organic foods are very expensive and many people don't have the luxury of
voting with their wallets.

So what? Organic, shmorganic. Who cares?

Quoted message said:

And you don't really know what you're
buying.

Exactly. Since you can't really know, don't bother buying the "organic"
produce. Just buy the regular stuff. Or grow your own.

Quoted message said:

I read an article years ago that said it is impossible to buy
organic corn--absolutely all of it had been crossbred with genetically
engineered corn.

And that's a problem why? I don't get why genetic engineering is so scary,
but crossbreeding the old-fashioned way is ok. One's just faster than the
other.

Quoted message said:

And we all have found that labels lie and decieve.

If it's that big a deal to you, then grow your own food.

Quoted message said:

Other markets show the same problem--cars. DO people really not want
air bags, curtian side air bags, crumble zone, BS brakes, DTR lights,
automatic wipers, and auto lights? These things promote safer driving
and have been proven to save more lives. ANybody out there into dying?
Yet they all cost more more. In the past and even now they are LUXURY
items--not meant for the lower class who can't afford it. We can't
vote with our wallets and control the manufacturing chain the way the
capitalistic-free market is supposed to work. That's why inferior
products usually become the norm instead of the best.

You've got some really screwy ideas about how the world works. If you want
a better car, it costs more money. If you want more money, earn more. You
seem to have a different definition of "choice" than the rest of the world.
Instead of "we can't vote with our wallets" try the more truthful "I can't
afford nice things because the choices I've made in life did not make me
rich enough to afford them." Prices are set by what individuals, you, me,
everyone, chooses to buy. Our individual choices are what determine
quality and price. If something is crappy enough, then not enough people
will buy it to keep that company in business. Likewise if something is too
expensive. The only case where consumers actually don't have a lot of
power or choice is in monopoly government programs. They can be as crappy
and expensive as they want to be.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

Luna wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: [email hidden] (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
::
::: Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::
:::: In article <[email hidden]>,
:::: [email hidden] (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
::::
::::: Luna <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: I swear, if God came down from heaven today and solved all of
:::::: humaniy's current problems,
::::::
:::::: Even though I am not a religious person, I am going to start a
:::::: ritual of giving a silent thanks before each meal. Since I
:::::: don't believe in god,
:::::
::::: hmmm. what's wrong with this picture?
:::::
::::
:::: Huh, maybe I should have said that it's a BIG if in the first
:::: statement. But I thought it was pretty clear that it was not meant
:::: literally as something that was actually likely to happen. I
:::: could just as easily have said if aliens came down and solved our
:::: problems with superior technology, or if a sorceror appeared and
:::: solved our problems with magic, both of which are still
:::: illustrations, not actual scientific hypotheses. On rereading yet
:::: again, I still think it was obvious that I wasn't being literal in
:::: my first statement. Obvious to anyone who isn't hard of thinking,
:::: anyway. I'll try to be more sensitive to your disabilities in the
:::: future.
:::
::: it's not my disability, dear. it's just bad writing.
::
:: There was nothing wrong with my writing. It's just bad reading on
:: your part. Do you also have trouble understanding that when people
:: say "Oh my god!" they may not actually be starting a prayer? Do
:: metaphors and similies trip you up as well? If you read "There were
:: stars in her eyes" do you take it literally? I have to wonder, since
:: you can't tell the difference between a hyperbolic illustration and
:: a statement of fact. It's ok, you'll figure it out eventually.

Settle down a bit....

Luna said:

And that's a problem why? I don't get why genetic engineering is so scary,
but crossbreeding the old-fashioned way is ok. One's just faster than the
other.

Yes. I just love mouse animal dna my strawberries. And please add
some more of that good delicious bug dna to my vegetables. Mmm good.
And another serving of cow steroids in my milk and beef if you please.
And I absolutely demand more antibiotics in the chicken feed and fresh
farmed shrimp and salmon. What's a chemical feast without a little
cross species genetic frankenfood? Moonchild. We may eat it because
that is what is in our food chain now. But we don't have to like it.

Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

Quoted message said:

I'll just
remind myself in general to be grateful to live in an age and country of
abundance, remind myself that it wasn't always this way and it still isn't
this way everywhere in the world, and remind myself not to take even one
bite of food for granted. Having to struggle to lose weight is a luxury in
the eyes of those who are truly hungry.

Very nicely said. Want one reason why Americans are reviled internationally
(especially in Muslim dominated countries. Here is one Luna points out.

Crafting Mom said:

Starvation sucks, but hunger, the true signal that it is time to eat, is a
good thing.

Hunger is not the true sign that it is time to eat as very often we are
hungry with no need whatsoever to eat. Same with thirst. Your body can
willingly lie to you which is why hunger needs to be viewed from an
intellectual basis not an emotional one.

Quoted message said:

The ability to allow oneself a bit of time to feel that their
stomach is indeed truly empty, is indeed a *good* thing. The reason being,
because being NOT in a third world country, chances are high that the
hunger will soon be gone. It's still even then, not a true hunger, because
it's wayyyyy more temporary than those in 3rd world countries experience.
We have so much food that the notion that we should have
a *short* period of time (waking hours) that we have an empty stomach
freaks us (the colloquial 'us'😉 out. It's a mindset pounded into our brain
so much that we've become fat. (I'm in Canada, but the availability of
food is pretty much the same as the US).

All you say about hunger above is accurate except that it is responsible
for being fat. Most overfat people I know eat when they are not hungry in
the least, mof, few know any hunger regularly at all.

Quoted message said:

And for us to have an empty stomach for a few hours is not the agony that
our culture would love for us to believe.

Nor is it the fear or the "assurance" of malnutrition, disease letting or a
host of other so called related conditions.

Feeling hungry may be uncomfortable but it is a lack of comfort that, in
time, becomes manageable. Like overeating becomes a manageable when
uncomfortable.

This temporary lack of comfort, imo, is the price, the sacrifice, one must
pay to lose weight and maintain weight. And why not? Anything gotten
without effort is going to be valueless and lessons learned under fire are
lessons ingrained.

DigitalVinyl said:

And yes foods have become the enemy but not through each consumers
fault. Most of us never have any control over what we buy. Organic
foods are very expensive and many people don't have the luxury of
voting with their wallets.

Quoted message said:

Yet they all cost more more. In the past and even now they are LUXURY
items--not meant for the lower class who can't afford it. We can't
vote with our wallets and control the manufacturing chain the way the
capitalistic-free market is supposed to work. That's why inferior
products usually become the norm instead of the best.

Quality of food has little to do with the obesity epidemic in the USA.
Quantity of food does.

MU wrote:
::: I'll just
::: remind myself in general to be grateful to live in an age and
::: country of abundance, remind myself that it wasn't always this way
::: and it still isn't this way everywhere in the world, and remind
::: myself not to take even one bite of food for granted. Having to
::: struggle to lose weight is a luxury in the eyes of those who are
::: truly hungry.
::
:: Very nicely said. Want one reason why Americans are reviled
:: internationally (especially in Muslim dominated countries. Here is
:: one Luna points out.

Nonsense.