Gortex lined boots?

Scott said:

Hi, I 've owned four pairs of gortex lined fabric boots now, and each pair
has become damp inside when I have been walking in the rain. they don't
become socked as if they are not lined, but just very damp.

does this usually happen with gortex linings in boot?. does the gortex stop
moister escaping enough when boots get wet that they become damp?.

Yes, SWEAT!

Chris

Scott said:

Hi, I 've owned four pairs of gortex lined fabric boots now, and each pair
has become damp inside when I have been walking in the rain. they don't
become socked as if they are not lined, but just very damp.

does this usually happen with gortex linings in boot?. does the gortex stop
moister escaping enough when boots get wet that they become damp?.

Yes, and they stop moisture escaping to some degree even when they're
bone dry. Though Goretex is breathable it's not as breathable as not
having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.
And the linings will continue to impede breathability if they get a hole
in them, so you'll have leaky /and/ overly sweaty boots. As you may be
able to tell, I'm not a fan...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

Hi, I 've owned four pairs of gortex lined fabric boots now, and each
pair has become damp inside when I have been walking in the rain. they
don't become socked as if they are not lined, but just very damp.
does this usually happen with gortex linings in boot?. does the
gortex stop moister escaping enough when boots get wet that they
become damp?.

Yes, and they stop moisture escaping to some degree even when they're
bone dry. Though Goretex is breathable it's not as breathable as not
having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.
And the linings will continue to impede breathability if they get a
hole in them, so you'll have leaky /and/ overly sweaty boots. As you
may be able to tell, I'm not a fan...

The really sad thing is it is now quite difficult to find decent and
lightweight boots which do not have some kind of waterproof liner...

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Peter Clinch said:

having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

Hi, I 've owned four pairs of gortex lined fabric boots now, and
each pair has become damp inside when I have been walking in the
rain. they don't become socked as if they are not lined, but just
very damp.
does this usually happen with gortex linings in boot?. does the
gortex stop moister escaping enough when boots get wet that they
become damp?.

Yes, and they stop moisture escaping to some degree even when they're
bone dry. Though Goretex is breathable it's not as breathable as not
having anything there, which is why some people (myself included)
avoid them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier
feet than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just
remove the linings if you don't want/need them.
And the linings will continue to impede breathability if they get a
hole in them, so you'll have leaky /and/ overly sweaty boots. As you
may be able to tell, I'm not a fan...

The really sad thing is it is now quite difficult to find decent and
lightweight boots which do not have some kind of waterproof liner...

Actually it's trivially easy, if you are willing to ignore the label and
buy some 'trainers'. Some of the better made ones are right up there
with 'XYZ professional Lows', sans the Goretex liner. Don't expect great
ankle support, and don't pay 100+ notes for something touted by fancy
advertising and/or members of the England footie team -- however for £30
you can have some great fine weather, easy terrain, footwear .. actually
more comfortable on tracks/roads than anything labelled 'walking boot'.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person SteveO@?.?.invalid said

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

You're wearing the wrong socks, or else you are not going out in hot
enough weather. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as GSV Three Minds in a Can <[email hidden]> descended
* on a shaft of golden sunlight, and announced:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

ankle support, and don't pay 100+ notes for something touted by fancy
advertising and/or members of the England footie team -- however for £30
you can have some great fine weather, easy terrain, footwear .. actually
more comfortable on tracks/roads than anything labelled 'walking boot'.

9.99 if you buy from Aldi! I bought some a year ago and they've been great.

Regards: Jim Ford

no I wore them through the summer, and they did get sweaty inside, but not a
wet as they were yesterday. the socks I was wearing are still damp.
so I guess I have had I run of bad luck when it comes to gortex boots.

thanks

Scott

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person SteveO@?.?.invalid said

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

You're wearing the wrong socks, or else you are not going out in hot
enough weather. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Scott <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

no I wore them through the summer, and they did get sweaty inside, but not a
wet as they were yesterday. the socks I was wearing are still damp.
so I guess I have had I run of bad luck when it comes to gortex boots.

I was replying to the person who =didn't= have a problem, not to you.

I can well believe yours leak - the membrane is incredibly thin, so it
is very easy for the inner boot lining to break the membrane. Even the
leather 'outer' can flex enough to break the membrane, especially if
there is dirt/grit involved somewhere. (Dirt + cloth + water can cut
through all sorts of =tough= things, never mind wimpy Goretex liner).

Quoted message said:

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person SteveO@?.?.invalid said

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:59:51 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
>them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
>than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
>linings if you don't want/need them.

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

You're wearing the wrong socks, or else you are not going out in hot
enough weather. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

are right, I'm not shore who's post I was replying to actually. in fact I
have probably just answered my own post.
"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Scott <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

no I wore them through the summer, and they did get sweaty inside, but not
a
wet as they were yesterday. the socks I was wearing are still damp.
so I guess I have had I run of bad luck when it comes to gortex boots.

I was replying to the person who =didn't= have a problem, not to you.

I can well believe yours leak - the membrane is incredibly thin, so it is
very easy for the inner boot lining to break the membrane. Even the
leather 'outer' can flex enough to break the membrane, especially if there
is dirt/grit involved somewhere. (Dirt + cloth + water can cut through
all sorts of =tough= things, never mind wimpy Goretex liner).

Quoted message said:

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful
person SteveO@?.?.invalid said
>On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:59:51 +0100, Peter Clinch
><[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>>having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
>>them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
>>than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
>>linings if you don't want/need them.
>
>I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
>lined boots.
>
>Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

You're wearing the wrong socks, or else you are not going out in hot
enough weather. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

<SteveO> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

having anything there, which is why some people (myself included) avoid
them. On a nice day they're an invitation to hotter, seweatier feet
than necessary and unlike goretex overgaiters you can't just remove the
linings if you don't want/need them.

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Ho hum... where do I complain, I hate being left out!??!

Don't worry. You're not alone! I have lined boots and have never had a
problem. Some people suffer from sweaty feet. Others don't. If you do,
chances are you will have damp feet no matter what type of boots you wear.
Having said that, probably more so with lined boots.

I noticed the original poster mentioned having the problem more so in damp,
rainy conditions (what are they like in dry, cool weather?). If you're out
in muggy and damp conditions, this is when waterproof/breathable
fabrics/liners are at their least effective (in allowing moisture to pass
from the inside to the outside, not in stopping the ingress of water.
Although then again......!)

Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
www.lakelandwalker.co.uk

SteveO said:

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Define "problem". I had no trouble wearing boots until I discovered I
didn't need them and started walking in trainers, fell running shoes and
sandals, and now I do that I resent the extra weight on my feet that
boots entail, though I'd not had a problem with it when I wore boots for
everything.

Similarly, how hot one's feet get inside Goretex liners (and for people
who suffer with frozen feet that's obviously going to be a non-issue).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

SteveO said:

I must be a strange example for I have no problems with my goretex
lined boots.

Define "problem". I had no trouble wearing boots until I discovered I
didn't need them

define "need" ;-)

Quoted message said:

and started walking in trainers, fell running shoes and
sandals, and now I do that I resent the extra weight on my feet that
boots entail, though I'd not had a problem with it when I wore boots for
everything.

I see [exactly] where you're coming from Pete and wouldn't argue
against you but spare a moment for those who can't walk in anything
but boots ;-) .....akshally that should be a :-( but I'm sure you
know what I mean!

Quoted message said:

Similarly, how hot one's feet get inside Goretex liners (and for people
who suffer with frozen feet that's obviously going to be a non-issue).

I think the prinicipal point I was bringing to the table was a comment
against the common perception that lined-boots are a *bad* thing. It
always seems to be the case [historically] that "all and sundry" rail
against a goretex lining in a boot. I wanted to offer a different
perspective, a positive opinion, is all.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

SteveO said:

define "need" ;-)

In the case of walking boots, that I can go for a walk without wearing a
pair. Outside of winter conditions potentially requiring step kicking
and/or crampon use I hardly ever wear them for walking these days.

Quoted message said:

I see [exactly] where you're coming from Pete and wouldn't argue
against you but spare a moment for those who can't walk in anything
but boots ;-) .....akshally that should be a :-( but I'm sure you
know what I mean!

How many people can't walk in anything but boots? There are lots of
people who /think/ they can't, and I used to be one of them. It's
usually "I have weak ankles, I've sprained one badly in the past and
it'll just turn and that'll be that". Again, I know that line, I used
to apply it to myself, and I was wrong. There are exceptions, but
AFAICT most people wear boots for walking because the common perception
is that that's what you do. It's a bit like proper bikes needing big
wheels, despite Alex Moulton proving that to be nonsense back in the 1960s.

Quoted message said:

I think the principal point I was bringing to the table was a comment
against the common perception that lined-boots are a *bad* thing. It
always seems to be the case [historically] that "all and sundry" rail
against a goretex lining in a boot.

No, very few people rail against it, which is why it's practically
impossible to find light boots without a waterproof liner these days.
If "all and sundry" thought they were a disaster then they'd be a niche
in the market rather than the default mainstream item.

And they are good for some people, but most people simply assume
waterproof == better and don't realise there are potential downsides
aside from cost.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

SteveO said:

define "need" ;-)

In the case of walking boots, that I can go for a walk without wearing a
pair.

nah, nah, nah, I claim my PP's, you've just defined "don't need" ;-)

Quoted message said:

How many people can't walk in anything but boots? There are lots of
people who /think/ they can't,

I think the majority opinion would tend to say "you need sturdy boots"
and that mantra comes from days past: "bigger and sturdier is best". I
don't know where such a perception would originate from, historically,
but its been said for so long now that its taken as "the truth". Its
also, sadly (?), the safest route; a newby wearing big boots is less
likely to turn an ankle.

Quoted message said:

and I used to be one of them. It's
usually "I have weak ankles, I've sprained one badly in the past and
it'll just turn and that'll be that". Again, I know that line, I used
to apply it to myself, and I was wrong.

As you're saying, weak ankles are only "weak" for a relatively short
period after such an injury. Most heal quickly, a few take a long time
to get back to normal, a very small number do develop other problems
as a result of the first injury.

I wear "big boots" because I've found (irritatingly, and from
experieince) that I can't walk in anything else without [ankle]
problems. I've a soopa pair of Montrails that are great for cragging,
similarly my Tevas, but I'm stuck with boots when it comes to walking
and for me the goretex lining is a spiffing extra!

I do, however, agree with the concept that the vast majority of folk
could easily consider lighter footwear (some terrrains excepted) and
that a waterproof lining is not a necessity.

Quoted message said:

There are exceptions, but
AFAICT most people wear boots for walking because the common perception
is that that's what you do.

agreed.

Quoted message said:

It's a bit like proper bikes needing big
wheels, despite Alex Moulton proving that to be nonsense back in the 1960s.

Who he? ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think the principal point I was bringing to the table was a comment
against the common perception that lined-boots are a *bad* thing. It
always seems to be the case [historically] that "all and sundry" rail
against a goretex lining in a boot.

No, very few people rail against it,

Not from what (little?) I've seen, witness magazine contributions from
/experts/ recently who took issue over the efficacy of the (goretex)
lining of boots, plus numerous web-based articles. Its a reasonable
stance to say you don't /need/ boots, or boots with lining but its
mistaken, imho, to say that membrane linings don't work (carte
blanche) when plainly they do work for some.

Quoted message said:

which is why it's practically
impossible to find light boots without a waterproof liner these days.
If "all and sundry" thought they were a disaster then they'd be a niche
in the market rather than the default mainstream item.

Can't comment there because I've not [retail] boot shopped in a lo-ong
time.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Peter Clinch said:

How many people can't walk in anything but boots? There are lots of
people who /think/ they can't, and I used to be one of them. It's
usually "I have weak ankles, I've sprained one badly in the past and
it'll just turn and that'll be that". Again, I know that line, I used
to apply it to myself, and I was wrong. There are exceptions, but
AFAICT most people wear boots for walking because the common perception
is that that's what you do. It's a bit like proper bikes needing big
wheels, despite Alex Moulton proving that to be nonsense back in the 1960s.

I'm wearing trail shoes with w/proof socks now, and my feet feel
entirely liberated!

(Well, not *right* now... but up in the Lakes, I am :-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \