Pitching a laser

* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Tom <[email hidden]> descended on a shaft
* of golden sunlight, and announced:

Quoted message said:

Got my new Laser today, pitched it in back garden to amuse the
neighbours.

Is it a Laserlite?

Regards: Jim Ford

On 14 Sep 2004 21:21:06 GMT, Jim Ford <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Tom <[email hidden]> descended on a shaft
* of golden sunlight, and announced:

Quoted message said:

Got my new Laser today, pitched it in back garden to amuse the
neighbours.

Is it a Laserlite?

No, paid the extra for the Laser on the basis that the space/weight
trade-off was worth it.

Tom

Tom said:

Got my new Laser today, pitched it in back garden to amuse the
neighbours.

Good bits:

- beautifully light

- pitched reasonably easy in almost dark

- roomy for its size, IYSWIM

- came ready-assembled for inner-and-outer-pitching-at-once

Not so sure bits:

- big windy gaps where fly doesn't reach ground at ends

that's ok it doesn't seem to cause a problem, think of it as ventilation
near the fly screen on the inner tent.

Quoted message said:

- can't work out how to tie the door back to stop it flapping (maybe
all will become clear in daylight)

there's a toggle on the doors which locates in loops on the inner.

Quoted message said:

- some of the end inner and fly guys are meant to use the same peg,
but I reckon this only works with curved space-time or something; I
can't make them reach

It can be made to fit - sort of. What I've been doing is to use 3 pegs
at each end, less hassle for just a little extra weight.

Quoted message said:

- the "short" end poles are in fact very long, at 50cm+. This either
makes for a very long bulky tent-package, or you detach them and
re-insert each time.

I detach the end poles and put them with the main pole on the side of my
pack. The fly and inner stay connected and stuffed in the bottom
compartment of my pack.

Quoted message said:

BTW, if I *do* detach the poles and stick the rest of the tent in a
compression sack, do you think it will harm it being squished very
tight?

I wouldn't use a compression sack, just stuff it loosely into a bag or
straight into the bottom of your pack - bottom is best so it can drip
safely without getting everything else wet. The weight of your other
gear will squash it down enough. Best not to fold it neatly as this
encourages cracking if the folds are always in the same place.

Quoted message said:

Tom

Excellent tent. Watch out for tent pegs pinging out of the ground during
pitching, that's happened to me twice, almost got one in the eye.
Tony

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:06:22 +0100, Tom <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Got my new Laser today, pitched it in back garden to amuse the
neighbours.

Good bits:

- beautifully light

it are

Quoted message said:

Not so sure bits:

- big windy gaps where fly doesn't reach ground at ends

That's the way its meant to be, I had the same concern when I got
mine, folk in here put me right ;-) Ultimately its not a problem.

Quoted message said:

- can't work out how to tie the door back to stop it flapping (maybe
all will become clear in daylight)

There's a small loop of elastic sewn into the upper edge of the
inner/front that the little toggles on the base, close to the zip of
the fly, loop through (both sides).

If you figure out what to do with the two small strips of velcro on
the hem of the fly, close to those black plastic toggles, let me know
will you?

Quoted message said:

- some of the end inner and fly guys are meant to use the same peg,
but I reckon this only works with curved space-time or something; I
can't make them reach

They do; watch the way you "align" the inner during pitching. This was
the principal mistake I made when first pitching mine; because the
inner's attached its easy to forget to check that its not
skewed/twisted before you peg it out.

....I have shortened one (two?) of those guys on mine to improve
things.

Quoted message said:

- the "short" end poles are in fact very long, at 50cm+. This either
makes for a very long bulky tent-package, or you detach them and
re-insert each time.

Dun't matter, they're the same length whether they're attached or not
;-)

Quoted message said:

BTW, if I *do* detach the poles and stick the rest of the tent in a
compression sack, do you think it will harm it being squished very
tight?

No need for compression sac, apart from it being extra baggage, if you
need to squidge the tent down in your 'sac then it'll squidge down on
its own.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Tom said:

- roomy for its size, IYSWIM

Yep.

Quoted message said:

- big windy gaps where fly doesn't reach ground at ends

Ventilation. Very important. My first tent had snow flaps and pitched
all the way down to the ground. I thought that was a good idea at the
time, until I learned about condensation.

Quoted message said:

- some of the end inner and fly guys are meant to use the same peg,
but I reckon this only works with curved space-time or something; I
can't make them reach

They do, but it takes a little bit of adjustment. I ended up using
extra pegs, they give you enough anyway.

Quoted message said:

- the "short" end poles are in fact very long, at 50cm+. This either
makes for a very long bulky tent-package, or you detach them and
re-insert each time.

Yes, this is a tad annoying, given how short the other poles are. Pity
they don't each fold into two.

Quoted message said:

BTW, if I *do* detach the poles and stick the rest of the tent in a
compression sack, do you think it will harm it being squished very
tight?

I wouldn't want to compress a tent tightly.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Tony Walsh said:

that's ok it doesn't seem to cause a problem, think of it as
ventilation near the fly screen on the inner tent.

Needs a good through-flow of air. Perhaps pitching end on to the wind
would be best? My Nallo 2 has a big gap between the ground and the fly
at the back when you peg the guy lines rather than the fly. This
creates a good entrance for the air when the wind is behind the tent,
and there's a nice ventilation thingy at the top of the door at the
front for the air to exit.

No top exit on the Laser though (hot air rises). I was hoping that the
doors would unzip both ways so that I could unzip the top of the door,
but no.

Quoted message said:

I detach the end poles and put them with the main pole on the side of
my pack. The fly and inner stay connected and stuffed in the bottom
compartment of my pack.

It's a real mess of a tent to pack, isn't it? With poles attached I
mean. Doesn't seem to roll up neatly at all.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't use a compression sack, just stuff it loosely into a bag or
straight into the bottom of your pack - bottom is best so it can drip
safely without getting everything else wet.

But where will it drip to? The bottom of your sack? I've always packed
my wet tent on the outside of my sack (compression straps) or on the top
(in a waterproof stuff sack) under the lid.

Besides, the tent is usually the last thing you pack (especially if it's
raining) and the first thing you take out (especially if it's raining)
so putting it at the bottom of the rucksack makes no sense at all to me,
unless you have a bottom compartment on your rucksack which you can open
independantly. I prefer all in one sacks myself.

What would be ideal for dripping is a rucksack with one of those large
expandable mesh pockets at the back.

Quoted message said:

Excellent tent. Watch out for tent pegs pinging out of the ground
during pitching, that's happened to me twice, almost got one in the
eye.

Any problems with your pegs? I pulled the yellow tops off a couple of
pegs when removing them and the pointy metal bits at the bottom fell out
of two pegs on the very first time I used it. The don't seem glued in
very well. What's the best glue to use to stick them back in?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

SteveO said:

If you figure out what to do with the two small strips of velcro on
the hem of the fly, close to those black plastic toggles, let me know
will you?

They're there to annoy you when you try to zip up the door and they get
stuck together.

Alternatively maybe they're there to hold the bottom of the doors open
when you unzip them partially to provide a bit of extra ventilation?

Or maybe they're something to do with holding the doors wide open, maybe
to open the doors a bit wider?

Quoted message said:

They do; watch the way you "align" the inner during pitching. This was
the principal mistake I made when first pitching mine; because the
inner's attached its easy to forget to check that its not
skewed/twisted before you peg it out.

I found this tent to be the fiddliest tent I've owned to align, probably
because the inner and outer go up together and the inner and outer use
the same pegging points. No doubt I'll get used to it, but it took me
quite a bit of fiddling on the first attempt to get the inner in the
best position relative to the fly. First time I pitched it I noticed
that one side of the tent had a large gap between the inner and fly
whilst on the other side the inner was pressing against the fly.
Probably caused by pegging one end of the tent first and getting an
uneven tension. Solved by adjusting guy line tensions and moving the
central pole while in situ.

Quoted message said:

Dun't matter, they're the same length whether they're attached or not
;-)

Yeah, but a little too long if you want to travel ultra light and pack
the tent in a daysack.

Quoted message said:

No need for compression sac, apart from it being extra baggage, if you
need to squidge the tent down in your 'sac then it'll squidge down on
its own.

You could even use the tent bag. That's what I generally do, partly for
protecting the tent (which I usually/used to store on the outside of the
pack) and partly for protecting everything else from the wet tent.

What about this black thing that runs across the top of the tent, to
provide extra waterproofing along the seam, anyone think this is really
necessary? It looks quite cool I reckon, but it is detachable to save
weight. No point saving a few grams if the rain pours in through the
seam though. Any views on this? Anyone used it in heavy rain without
this?

I heard from Kentdale today (sorry, yesterday) that my GoLite Infinity
has just arrived from the States, so I should be getting it tomorrow,
along with my Markhill Stove.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:15:51 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I heard from Kentdale today (sorry, yesterday) that my GoLite Infinity
has just arrived from the States, so I should be getting it tomorrow,

Exciting! I'm looking for a lightweight backpacking sack, and I'll be
very interested to hear what you think of the GoLite.

I've also been looking at reviews of the ULA P-2. It looks as though
TGO thought highly of it last year, and there are interesting user
reviews at http://tinyurl.com/2w9yo. Did you consider the ULA packs?
What swung you towards the GoLite in the end?

I'm hoping my Anwket Harveys 1:25k Lakes will come in the post today.
It's lovely getting kit in the post 🙂

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Paul Saunders said:

Tony Walsh said:

that's ok it doesn't seem to cause a problem, think of it as
ventilation near the fly screen on the inner tent.

Needs a good through-flow of air. Perhaps pitching end on to the wind
would be best?

Although they do say in the instructions to pitch with the main pole
aligned with wind for stability. I imagine there's more chance of the
tent being pushed over if it's end-on to the wind.
My Nallo 2 has a big gap between the ground and the fly

Quoted message said:

at the back when you peg the guy lines rather than the fly. This
creates a good entrance for the air when the wind is behind the tent,
and there's a nice ventilation thingy at the top of the door at the
front for the air to exit.

No top exit on the Laser though (hot air rises). I was hoping that the
doors would unzip both ways so that I could unzip the top of the door,
but no.

Yes, both-way zips would have been very nice, I was surprised that they
hadn't thought of doing that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I detach the end poles and put them with the main pole on the side of
my pack. The fly and inner stay connected and stuffed in the bottom
compartment of my pack.

It's a real mess of a tent to pack, isn't it? With poles attached I
mean. Doesn't seem to roll up neatly at all.

Yes although I find it quite easy to put the end poles in place from
outside the tent after the first two pegs have been put in for the flysheet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't use a compression sack, just stuff it loosely into a bag or
straight into the bottom of your pack - bottom is best so it can drip
safely without getting everything else wet.

But where will it drip to? The bottom of your sack? I've always packed
my wet tent on the outside of my sack (compression straps) or on the top
(in a waterproof stuff sack) under the lid.

True, I just try to shake most of the water off before packing, in
practice most of the remaining water just stays wrapped up in the tent.

Quoted message said:

Besides, the tent is usually the last thing you pack (especially if it's
raining) and the first thing you take out (especially if it's raining)
so putting it at the bottom of the rucksack makes no sense at all to me,
unless you have a bottom compartment on your rucksack which you can open
independantly. I prefer all in one sacks myself.

Personally I like a bottom compartment where I can put wet things -
tent, waterproofs, plus things that dont mind getting wet - trowel,
rubbish bag etc.

Quoted message said:

What would be ideal for dripping is a rucksack with one of those large
expandable mesh pockets at the back.

Quoted message said:

Excellent tent. Watch out for tent pegs pinging out of the ground
during pitching, that's happened to me twice, almost got one in the
eye.

Any problems with your pegs? I pulled the yellow tops off a couple of
pegs when removing them and the pointy metal bits at the bottom fell out
of two pegs on the very first time I used it. The don't seem glued in
very well. What's the best glue to use to stick them back in?

Haven't had any problems with pegs coming apart. I'm still surprised how
effective they are, my first reaction was that they are too small and
there's no hook to stop the guy lines from coming off. Have had no
problems like that so far though.

Quoted message said:

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Tony

Peewiglet said:

Quoted message said:

I heard from Kentdale today (sorry, yesterday) that my GoLite
Infinity has just arrived from the States, so I should be getting it
tomorrow,

Exciting! I'm looking for a lightweight backpacking sack, and I'll be
very interested to hear what you think of the GoLite.

Firstly I thought they'd forgot to pack the Markhill stove, until I
found the tiny little cardboard box... Impressively small, perhaps too
small to put a big pan on. The built-in lighter worked first time.

The Infinity! Looks very nice, I'm rather pleased with it. Firstly
it's a tad larger than I thought. Being labelled as 42+8 I was afraid
that the main compartment might be a bit small, and it didn't look that
big on photos I'd seen, but I needn't have worried. Plenty more space
than the 35L daysack that I just managed to squeeze everything into.
Big enough to get everything in comfortably, but without looking or
feeling too large. I'm optimistic that I may be able to get my slightly
heavier and bulkier winter kit in this sack too (Snowline and Nallo2).

The material feels really nice. Thin but not too thin. I was half
expecting something similar to the slippery gossamer thin material of
the Nallo or Laser, but instead it feels more like the rubbery
groundsheet material of these tents.

The various straps seem well designed, the hip belt is big enough to
give support but without being overly large and padded. This is
particularly good for me since I like to wear a belt with a camera pouch
and a normal rucksack hipbelt tends to get in the way and be
uncomfortable. This doesn't though.

The long pockets at the back of the sack are made of a less nice feeling
material, but they are a bit larger than I thought. Supposedly useful
for carrying odds and ends, but they're a very odd shape, and apparently
waterproof. Might be a good place to carry my waterproofs.

It feels very comfortable to wear. With all the straps done up tight
it's very close fitting, fits the curve of the back well and is very
stable. I imagine it would be fine for the odd bit of scrambling. I
quickly filled it up with any old stuff just to get a feel for the
weight and with 10 kilos it feels very comfy to walk around in. It sits
quite high on the hips (again good for my camera pouch) and with only 10
kilos it doesn't feel like I really need much hip support, there's no
strain on the shoulders. Like the waistbelt the straps aren't
particularly thick, but with the light loads this is designed to carry
they don't really need to be.

Did I mention that I got a black one? The back is yellow and there are
a couple of other small off yellow patches, so it's not ideal for SAS
night operations, but they're not too obtrusive.

So, first impressions are good, I'll tell you more once I've used it a
few times.

Suddenly I feel a compelling urge to go out backpacking, but...

....it's the Wales GB World Rally this weekend!!! Damn!!! What terrible
timing! :-(

Ah well, it'll just have to wait until next week.

Quoted message said:

I've also been looking at reviews of the ULA P-2. It looks as though
TGO thought highly of it last year, and there are interesting user
reviews at http://tinyurl.com/2w9yo. Did you consider the ULA packs?

Yes I did. Very nice designs. The P-2 is a tad heavy (relatively
speaking) at 1335g (300g more than the Infinity) I was actually more
interested in the P-1, rated 40-70 litres and weighing only 680g.

Quoted message said:

What swung you towards the GoLite in the end?

In the end, after much soul searching, I decided that a framed pack
would probably be better than a non framed pack, more comfort and
stability with varying pack sizes at a small cost in extra weight. Also
while the Infinity is 370g heavier than the P-1, it's 300g lighter than
the P-2. IIRC the P-1 doesn't seem to have a lid. It looks similar to
the Infinity without the lid actually - it's removable - but probably
not terribly waterproof with that hole in the top! The Infinity lid is
very nice, good for expansion and with a useful top pocket, and it
hardly weighs anything.

I did seriously consider the P-1, but what swung it in the end is that
the ULAs are hand made to order, by only one guy I think, and I think I
read that it can take up to three months for delivery due to a backlog
of orders. I didn't really want to wait that long.

Quoted message said:

I'm hoping my Anwket Harveys 1:25k Lakes will come in the post today.
It's lovely getting kit in the post 🙂

It is, isn't it?

Now I have to practice packing all my new gear in my new rucksack, to
try to figure out the optimum way to pack everything.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Tony Walsh said:

Quoted message said:

Needs a good through-flow of air. Perhaps pitching end on to the
wind would be best?

Quoted message said:

Although they do say in the instructions to pitch with the main pole
aligned with wind for stability.

I know they said that.

Quoted message said:

I imagine there's more chance of the
tent being pushed over if it's end-on to the wind.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It looks pretty streamlined end on. One way or
the other we'll find out. Wind has a habit of changing direction during
the night, so we'll soon discover the effects of different directions.
Just don't pitch it so that it hits the door in the morning. (With most
weather systems from the west, the wind tends to veer from SW to NW and
back again.)

Quoted message said:

Yes, both-way zips would have been very nice, I was surprised that
they hadn't thought of doing that.

They probably did, then decided to save a couple of grams by not doing
it.

Quoted message said:

Personally I like a bottom compartment where I can put wet things -
tent, waterproofs, plus things that dont mind getting wet - trowel,
rubbish bag etc.

I like one compartment sacks that you can attach things to on the
outside.

Quoted message said:

Haven't had any problems with pegs coming apart. I'm still surprised
how effective they are, my first reaction was that they are too small
and there's no hook to stop the guy lines from coming off. Have had no
problems like that so far though.

Yes, very strange design. Might be a problem in certain types of
ground.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

Tony Walsh said:

Quoted message said:

Needs a good through-flow of air. Perhaps pitching end on to the
wind would be best?

Quoted message said:

Although they do say in the instructions to pitch with the main pole
aligned with wind for stability.

I know they said that.

Quoted message said:

I imagine there's more chance of the
tent being pushed over if it's end-on to the wind.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It looks pretty streamlined end on. One way or
the other we'll find out.

I'm going to the lake district this weekend and the forecast is "windy
with gales possible" so there's a good chance I'll know the answer to
this by monday...
btw I was out in a torrential downpour during a thunderstorm during
august, not much wind but it was very very wet and I had no water coming
in anywhere - I was using that black thing that goes over the central
seam, must try it without that sometime to see how much difference it makes.

Tony

Lots of people wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all sorts of useful things about the Laser that I've snipped

Thanks for all this.

It is a lovely tent, but I'm surprised that it has the two following
oddities:

- the length of the two end poles. It's an ideal
mountain-marathon-type-tent, but most people using it for that sort of
activity will be using no more than a 35l bag. The poles are a bit of
a pain for this, tho' I've now rigged up a way of attaching them to
the outside of my Lowe Alpine Contour Event 35. Hope I notice when
they bounce off....

- the funny little toggle for clipping the door back (now I've found
it). The location seems very awkward, and ideally placed for getting
water all over a) the inner and b) your arm

Tom

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:45:46 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

The Infinity! Looks very nice, I'm rather pleased with it. Firstly
it's a tad larger than I thought. Being labelled as 42+8 I was afraid
that the main compartment might be a bit small, and it didn't look that
big on photos I'd seen, but I needn't have worried. Plenty more space
than the 35L daysack that I just managed to squeeze everything into.
Big enough to get everything in comfortably, but without looking or
feeling too large. I'm optimistic that I may be able to get my slightly
heavier and bulkier winter kit in this sack too (Snowline and Nallo2).

This sounds very encouraging. Where does the +8 come from? Is it a lid
extension? If so, does it look to you as though extending the lid that
far would render everything in the sack vulnerable to rain? That's
something that always worried me a little, rightly or wrongly.

[...]

Quoted message said:

The long pockets at the back of the sack are made of a less nice feeling
material, but they are a bit larger than I thought. Supposedly useful
for carrying odds and ends, but they're a very odd shape, and apparently
waterproof. Might be a good place to carry my waterproofs.

I need side pockets of some sort on a backpacking sack, so these sound
good. Do they look big enough for a decent sized water bottle? How
d'you mean about the odd shape?

Quoted message said:

It feels very comfortable to wear. With all the straps done up tight
it's very close fitting, fits the curve of the back well and is very
stable. I imagine it would be fine for the odd bit of scrambling. I
quickly filled it up with any old stuff just to get a feel for the
weight and with 10 kilos it feels very comfy to walk around in. It sits
quite high on the hips (again good for my camera pouch) and with only 10
kilos it doesn't feel like I really need much hip support, there's no
strain on the shoulders. Like the waistbelt the straps aren't
particularly thick, but with the light loads this is designed to carry
they don't really need to be.

Sounds good again.

Quoted message said:

Did I mention that I got a black one?

I think so, although possibly it was another thread 🙂

[...]

Quoted message said:

So, first impressions are good, I'll tell you more once I've used it a
few times.

Many thanks - that was very interesting indeed.

Quoted message said:

Suddenly I feel a compelling urge to go out backpacking, but...

Quoted message said:

...it's the Wales GB World Rally this weekend!!! Damn!!! What terrible
timing! :-(

Quoted message said:

Ah well, it'll just have to wait until next week.

Cancel it?
:-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've also been looking at reviews of the ULA P-2. It looks as though
TGO thought highly of it last year, and there are interesting user
reviews at http://tinyurl.com/2w9yo. Did you consider the ULA packs?

Yes I did. Very nice designs. The P-2 is a tad heavy (relatively
speaking) at 1335g (300g more than the Infinity) I was actually more
interested in the P-1, rated 40-70 litres and weighing only 680g.

Hmmm... I've not really looked at that. I will now, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What swung you towards the GoLite in the end?

In the end, after much soul searching, I decided that a framed pack
would probably be better than a non framed pack, more comfort and
stability with varying pack sizes at a small cost in extra weight.

I'd not realised that the P-2 is a frameless sack. I'd best go back
and look again.

Quoted message said:

Also
while the Infinity is 370g heavier than the P-1, it's 300g lighter than
the P-2. IIRC the P-1 doesn't seem to have a lid. It looks similar to
the Infinity without the lid actually - it's removable - but probably
not terribly waterproof with that hole in the top! The Infinity lid is
very nice, good for expansion and with a useful top pocket, and it
hardly weighs anything.

I did seriously consider the P-1, but what swung it in the end is that
the ULAs are hand made to order, by only one guy I think, and I think I
read that it can take up to three months for delivery due to a backlog
of orders. I didn't really want to wait that long.

According to the website they've speeded up the dispatch process
considerably now, although they're about to go away on a protracted
backpack for a couple of months from the end of September.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Now I have to practice packing all my new gear in my new rucksack, to
try to figure out the optimum way to pack everything.

Good fun!

Thanks v. much for the detailed description - it was very helpful.

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:54:10 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...it's the Wales GB World Rally this weekend!!! Damn!!! What terrible
timing! :-(

Quoted message said:

Ah well, it'll just have to wait until next week.

Cancel it?
:-)

I meant the Rally, of course: not the backpacking!

Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet

Peewiglet said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...it's the Wales GB World Rally this weekend!!! Damn!!! What
terrible timing! :-(

Quoted message said:

Ah well, it'll just have to wait until next week.

Cancel it?
:-)

I meant the Rally, of course: not the backpacking!

Ha! They could always postpone it until November, which has been the
traditional date for as long as I can remember. They changed the date
to September because they thought they might have some dry weather for a
change, instead of the typical November mud and rain.

Have you seen the weather forecast? Rain and gales! Did they really
expect anything different in Wales?

£25 a stage! Bloody ridiculous prices! And to think that in
practically every other country it's free. That's the UK for you, money
grabbing [censored]! £25 to see each driver for only 10 seconds! Highway
robbery! Rather watch it on TV... :-(

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Peewiglet said:

This sounds very encouraging. Where does the +8 come from? Is it a lid
extension?

Could be, or could be the pockets, or both. They guy at Kentwood
Rambler reckoned it's more like a 55L, I'd have to agree.

Quoted message said:

If so, does it look to you as though extending the lid that
far would render everything in the sack vulnerable to rain?

No.

Quoted message said:

That's
something that always worried me a little, rightly or wrongly.

Hang on a moment...

....well, I'm surprised and impressed! I've just tried packing more into
it, and more, and more, and even more! And as it got bigger the lid sat
more comfortably! It seems that you can pack quite a bit into this
sack. It looks almost like my 60-70L sack now!

I noticed that the lid that sits on top of the expandable main
compartment looked rather loose and floppy at first, but having crammed
quite a bit more stuff in, it's now fitting very nicely on top of the
expanded pack. It seems to be designed to fit well with more stuff in
the sack rather than less, which is the opposite of my last rucksack,
where the lid fits less well when you cram more stuff into it.

I'm quite chuffed with that actually, not that I plan to pack so much
stuff into it, but it's nice to know that I can. I could fit even more,
but I don't feel any need to push it to it's limits.

Quoted message said:

I need side pockets of some sort on a backpacking sack, so these sound
good. Do they look big enough for a decent sized water bottle? How
d'you mean about the odd shape?

Have you seen a pic?
http://www.shoppersworld.co.uk/store/product.asp?s=91&d=367&p=21920&c=17
&s1=127&s2=0&s3=0

There are two pairs of pockets. On the side there are low expandable
mesh type pockets, ideal for water bottles. My 1L water bottle fits
easily, hell, even my 1.5L water bottle fits without problems. 250 gas
canister, no problem.

On the back there are two long, thin, waterproof, zipped pockets. These
are the odd ones. Feels like a nasty, cheap nylonish material compared
to the rest of the sack. If you filled them full of odd and ends, all
the odds at the top would fall out when you unzipped them, so not ideal
for lots of little things (although having said that, there are
elasticated mesh pockets at the bottom of these which will hold small
things without them falling out). Seems like they are more suited for
things which will fit the long thin storage space, perhaps pegs & poles
or clothing which isn't too thick, hence my idea of putting waterproofs
in them.

Quoted message said:

I'd not realised that the P-2 is a frameless sack. I'd best go back
and look again.

Is it? I'm not 100% sure to be honest, I've looked at so many sacks I
can't remember exactly. Maybe the P-2 is framed and the P-1 isn't, I'm
not sure now.

Quoted message said:

According to the website they've speeded up the dispatch process
considerably now, although they're about to go away on a protracted
backpack for a couple of months from the end of September.

Aaaaahh! My point exactly! Nothing wrong with a small business like
that, more power to it, but you do have to make allowances.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

£25 a stage! Bloody ridiculous prices! And to think that in
practically every other country it's free. That's the UK for you, money
grabbing [censored]! £25 to see each driver for only 10 seconds! Highway
robbery! Rather watch it on TV... :-(

But when it was free it was a shambles. People everywhere and the cars
were delayed on the roads between special stages by the traffic.

£25 is peanuts compared to F1. You need a mortgage to buy a ticket for
that!
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil Cook said:

But when it was free it was a shambles. People everywhere and the cars
were delayed on the roads between special stages by the traffic.

True, but they also made the mistake of using stages in Mid Wales where
the roads are [censored] anyway. The current set up has much better road
access.

Quoted message said:

£25 is peanuts compared to F1. You need a mortgage to buy a ticket for
that!

That's £25 for *each* stage! There's 19 different stages!

Actually I've just checked and the pricing seems to have changed (maybe
it's different now that it's started. Prices are now £20 per stage, but
an extra £10 if you're a single person in a car!

Better value are the day passes, for a relatively cheap £45, but they
only give access to 3-4 stages each, you'd need two day passes for
Saturday. Certain stages only seem to be accessible with a single stage
pass.

If you're really keen then an Event pass (for all 5 days) is best at
£100, but that only seems to cover 11 of the 19 stages, so you'd need
single stage passes for the others, but they don't seem to be available
now (probably sold out already - perhaps they offered very few tickets
for those stages because of accessiblity problems).

It would also cost you a helluva lot of money in petrol to drive to all
those stages, you'd drive almost as far as the competitors.

Oh, and if a stage is cancelled, there's no refund! Taking the P or
what? As if it's not bad enough charging those prices in the first
place! How can they justify that? If you ordered something from a shop
and they didn't have it in stock, would you expect them to take the
money anyway? Bloody ridiculous!

Anyway, Loeb has taken an early lead after the first two stage, Solberg
is in fourth, 15 seconds behind.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk