New to walking

Following up to Michael

Quoted message said:

I spent a week in the lakes and enjoyed walking up the fells at Kirstone
Pass. I had some the walking stuff as did the wife and kids but we seemed to
be really hot one minute cold the next. Got very wet one day.

IMHO layers are best, wicking vest, fleece and a wind/water proof
shell. (They are talking about windproof fleece IIRC which may
make things simpler). "Tracksters" for the legs.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I spent a week in the lakes and enjoyed walking up the fells at Kirstone
Pass.

Not bad, wish I had time to get up to the lakes more.

Quoted message said:

I had some the walking stuff as did the wife and kids but we seemed

to

Quoted message said:

be really hot one minute cold the next. Got very wet one day.

That`l be the British weather then!

Quoted message said:

So to my questions:

What are the best things to wear?

As you found out, assume anything. As a resident of these isles, you
already know the weather can be a fickle thing, in the hills it is
even more true.Always expect the worst. You want clothes to keep you
warm and dry. The best way to achieve this is through layering - many
thin layers are better than one thick one, you can remove layers
according to changing conditions and the air between the layers will
be a better insulator. so here goes...
Boots:-
Essential, for hill walking you`l want boots with a decent tread to
give you good grip (look out for Vibram soles) and decent ankle
support to reduce the risk of any sprains/strains. I personaly swear
by leather boots but I know there are some pretty decent fabric
varieties around these days. IMHO Boots are what we do walking in and
walking is what we do, buy the best pair of boots you can afford,
you`l be pleased you did, money can be saved on other kit.

Clothes:-
Socks - Decent pair of walking socks should help reduce the risk of
any blisters
Trousers - personal choice but not jeans/cords, when wet they become
v. heavy and take forever to dry out.
Top - I prefer a T-shirt and fleece
Waterproofs - Waterproof trousers/top
Extras - gloves/hat if appropriate
You get what you pay for - more expensive kit will be more
comfortable/last longer. However cheap kit is better than no kit.
Breathable and wicking fabrics are more comfortable but are be no
means essential.

Quoted message said:

What should you take with you?

Map and compass - Essential. Even more essential is knowing how to
use them.
Mapcase - plastic mapcase will ensure your map wont get shreaded in
the wind
At a minimum, know how to walk on a bearing, take a 6 fig grid
reference and understand scale and the key. There are many great
books on the subject if you need any help, however there is no
substute for practice.
I`d reccomend Ordance Survey 1:25 000 Explorer maps
Survival/bivvy bag - a person sized orange polythene bag, provides
emergency shelter if you get into dificulties and a handy seat for
lunch on wet ground.
Whistle - to attract attention
Torch - to attract attention at night, handy if you find yourself out
later than expected.
Pen/paper - To make notes if need to send someone to raise the alarm
in an emergency.
Rucksack - to put it all in, a 25-35l sack should be spot on for a day
walk, depending on how much extra kit (camera, ...) you like to carry.
First aid kit - a basic selection of plasters/antispectic wipes
Lunch - plenty of energy food, leave some left over till the end as a
backup in case you get into trouble (a kendle mint bar makes handy
emergency rations)
Drink - take plenty of water, 2l would be a minimum IMO, drink
frequently.

Extras - non-essential but have their uses
Trecking pole - use that wasted upper body power, GPS - handy backup
to map/compass, camera (goes without saying around here), phone - may
feel it adds a sense of security or reduces feeling of wilderness,
reception can be iffy in the hills and use it with discretion (passing
walkers wont appreciate it)

Make sure to plan your walk carefuly before you leave, consider any
hazards the map suggests, check the weather forcast, plan shortcuts
off the hill, let someone know where you`ve gone and when you are
getting back and tell them when you get back.

Err, i`ve probably missed something essential off but can`t think
what...

A few simple rules, they wont stop you getting into problems but will
make you much safer and aware.

Ed.

Ed Whittaker said:

As you found out, assume anything. As a resident of these isles, you
already know the weather can be a fickle thing, in the hills it is
even more true.Always expect the worst. You want clothes to keep you
warm and dry. The best way to achieve this is through layering - many
thin layers are better than one thick one, you can remove layers
according to changing conditions and the air between the layers will
be a better insulator

Indeed, but don't forget you don't need a warm, waterproof coat to keep
you warm and dry if it's a bonnie day. Not wearing stuff can be just as
important as wearing it, the important thing is to have what you might
need /available/ to wear, rather than wear it all the time (my sister is
a teacher, her school had a week at a field centre and they'd emphasized
layers were good... one lad claimed to be overheating on a nice day,
investigation revealed he was wearing 7 layers!).

Quoted message said:

Boots:-
Essential, for hill walking you`l want boots with a decent tread to
give you good grip (look out for Vibram soles) and decent ankle
support to reduce the risk of any sprains/strains. I personaly swear
by leather boots but I know there are some pretty decent fabric
varieties around these days. IMHO Boots are what we do walking in and
walking is what we do, buy the best pair of boots you can afford,
you`l be pleased you did, money can be saved on other kit.

Boots for walking are a useful lowest common denominator: you generally
won't go too far wrong in boots, but they are in no way /essential/.
You do need a good sole unit and whatever your wearing needs to fit well
and be comfortable, but beyond that it's not quite so cut and dried.
Lots of people go walking in shoes rather than boots and don't suffer
from it (indeed, since they're lighter they suffer less fatigue in many
cases), I usually go walking in sandals.
Boots are clearly the best for winter work in snow and ice, but that's a
bridge to cross when you come to it, with heavy winter boots highly
overspecified for most walking and stiffer and heavier than you need
means less comfort and more tired feet.
But you do need a good sole, preferably cleat and stud, and whatever it
is should be tried on for fit. Don't buy footwear mail order, try it on
in person and try out alternatives. Everyone's feet are different
shapes, so just because your wife loves a Brand X shoe don't assume it's
right for you too.

Quoted message said:

Clothes:-
Socks - Decent pair of walking socks should help reduce the risk of
any blisters

Good socks are some of the most cost-effective comfort bringers you can
buy. There is a tendency to think "Over £10 for a pair of SOCKS!", but
good socks like Smartwool, Bridgedales and Thor-Los really are worth
getting IMHO.

Quoted message said:

Trousers - personal choice but not jeans/cords, when wet they become
v. heavy and take forever to dry out.

And not only that, but when they're wet they tend to chafe. You want
good freedom of movement as an essential point.
Two general schools of practice here, stretchy to move with you, or
baggy to allow you to move inside. Stretchy often means track suit
leggings or similar, Ronhill Tracksters are a hillgoing favourite. The
baggier approach is typified by "trekking trousers" from firms like
Regatta, Craghoppers and Rohan (amongst many others). These tend to be
more windproof than tracky bottoms and some people just don't like skin
tight leggings, but they don't dry as quickly and are less comfortable
if wet. They do have more pocket space, but I prefer not to have stuff
in trouser pockets anyway if I'm walking, it just makes life less
comfortable.

Quoted message said:

Top - I prefer a T-shirt and fleece

Cotton Ts aren't really that great: once they get wet (sweat and/or
rain) they tend to stay that way as cotton absorbs moisture and is slow
to dry. The Magic Words are "base layer" and "wicking", shirts made
from these fabrics will hold little moisture, dry fast and transport
sweat away from your body, leaving you drier and more comfortable. Not
to say you /can't/ walk in a cotton T, lots of people do, but you can do
better.

Quoted message said:

Waterproofs - Waterproof trousers/top

"breathable" waterproofs let out some moisture from inside caused by
sweating. They don't let out as much as most people make, but they're
more comfortable than completely non-porous kit. Breathable fabrics
cost more though, and the more expensive ones are generally better at
letting moisture out.
A good hood, preferably with a stiffened peak, is advisable. Hoods
which roll away into collars are usually designed to roll away into the
collar as the primary requirement, rather than keep rain off your head,
so I'd avoid those.

Waterproofs are windproof, so they can do double duty there, but a pure
windproof is usually lighter and more comfortable, and will keep out the
worst of light rain as well. A light windproof jacket is often good
all-day wear, while waterproofs may be better saved until it's seriously
wet.

If it isn't windy then umbrellas are very good: you don't lose view and
hearing from a hood and they're actually often better at keeping you dry
than a jacket. But in the wind they're not much use (may be a
hindrance) and you can't assume you'll be able to use them. They should
always be backed up with waterproof clothing.

Quoted message said:

Map and compass - Essential. Even more essential is knowing how to
use them.

Depends where you're going though. Anyone who can get lost doing the
circuit of Loch Muick would get lost going to their own bathroom. But
as soon as you're well away from well marked paths you should have them.

Quoted message said:

Mapcase - plastic mapcase will ensure your map wont get shreaded in
the wind

Wind is unlikely to damage a map, but rain can destroy them.

Quoted message said:

I`d reccomend Ordance Survey 1:25 000 Explorer maps

Depends where you are: in some paces the level of detail actually makes
it more difficult to see what's happening on the ground. The Cuillin
Ridge is a classic example of 1:25,000 and 10m contours being just too
much information.
The 1:50,000 are a little cheaper, are adequate for most cases and cover
a lot more area on each map. They are the de-facto standards for
hillwalking. 1:25K are very handy if you need extra detail, handy in
woodland and farmland.

Quoted message said:

Torch - to attract attention at night, handy if you find yourself out
later than expected.

A headtorch is best: leaves hands free and light goes where you look.
If you don't have one anyway they're very handy working around the house
too. The LED ones go through batteries very slowly and cast a useful
amount of light.

Quoted message said:

Rucksack - to put it all in, a 25-35l sack should be spot on for a day
walk, depending on how much extra kit (camera, ...) you like to carry.

If you're carrying stuff for kids you may not /like/ to carry more, but
you may be obliged to. When selecting a pack, try it out by putting the
sort of load you expect to carry in it. If there's not enough room, you
need a bigger one.

Quoted message said:

Drink - take plenty of water, 2l would be a minimum IMO, drink
frequently.

I drink a fair bit, but rarely get through 2l in a day unless it's very
hot and it's a long day (probably won't be /too/ long with kids in tow).
Also note that if you're in the hills the streams are safe to drink
out of with a little thought, and that saves you having to carry the
stuff around.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, Ed Whittaker

URL: said:

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<cggj38$21b$1@news

Quoted message said:

5.svr.pol.co.uk>... I spent a week in the lakes and enjoyed walking
up the fells at Kirstone Pass.
Not bad, wish I had time to get up to the lakes more. I had some the
walking stuff as did the wife and kids but we seemed
to be really hot one minute cold the next. Got very wet one day.
That`l be the British weather then! So to my questions:

What are the best things to wear?

Based on other recent threads you could of course find many alternative
views on this subject.

;-)

Quoted message said:

As you found out, assume anything. As a resident of these isles, you
already know the weather can be a fickle thing, in the hills it is
even more true.Always expect the worst. You want clothes to keep you
warm and dry.

But in summer it often doesn't matter too much if you're warm and wet.

Quoted message said:

The best way to achieve this is through layering - many thin layers
are better than one thick one, you can remove layers according to
changing conditions and the air between the layers will be a better
insulator.

Or you could alternatively go for the soft-shell approach that has
insulating and water resistance in one layer, using zips to ventilate
when warm

e.g. Paramo or Buffalo

Quoted message said:

so here goes... Boots:- Essential, for hill walking you`l want boots
with a decent tread to give you good grip (look out for Vibram soles)
and decent ankle support to reduce the risk of any sprains/strains.

Or you could just make do with a very good pair of sandals.

Quoted message said:

I personaly swear by leather boots but I know there are some pretty
decent fabric varieties around these days. IMHO Boots are what we do
walking in and walking is what we do, buy the best pair of boots you
can afford, you`l be pleased you did, money can be saved on other kit.

Teva Terra-fi sandals are an alternative.

Quoted message said:

Clothes:- Socks - Decent pair of walking socks should help reduce the
risk of any blisters

But you needn't bother with socks if you harden your feet up wearing
sandals.

Quoted message said:

Trousers - personal choice but not jeans/cords, when wet they become
v. heavy and take forever to dry out. Top - I prefer a T-shirt and
fleece Waterproofs - Waterproof trousers/top

Or just wear Paramo or Buffalo trousers and smock.

Quoted message said:

Extras - gloves/hat if appropriate You get what you pay for - more
expensive kit will be more comfortable/last longer. However cheap kit
is better than no kit. Breathable and wicking fabrics are more
comfortable but are be no means essential.

Quoted message said:

What should you take with you?

Map and compass - Essential. Even more essential is knowing how to
use them.

I've seen some argue that a GPS, and a spare GPS are all they need ;-)

Quoted message said:

Mapcase - plastic mapcase will ensure your map wont get shreaded in
the wind

Or you could just have small pieces of laminated map which aren't so
unwieldy in windy weather and don't make you look stupid for wandering
round with a plastic bag tied round your neck.

Quoted message said:

At a minimum, know how to walk on a bearing, take a 6 fig grid
reference and understand scale and the key. There are many great
books on the subject if you need any help, however there is no
substute for practice.

Or you could follow the well worn footpaths and signs.

Quoted message said:

I`d reccomend Ordance Survey 1:25 000 Explorer maps

Why not Anquet?

Which reminds me that some friends of mine once navigated part of the
Haute Route with one of those topographical table place-mats that you
get in alpine restaurants.

Quoted message said:

Survival/bivvy bag - a person sized orange polythene bag, provides
emergency shelter if you get into dificulties and a handy seat for
lunch on wet ground.

Of course you'll know from your granny that you'll die if you sit on
damp ground, especially in summer.

Quoted message said:

Whistle - to attract attention

Hey look at me, I've got all this equipment for a summer stroll...

Quoted message said:

Torch - to attract attention at night, handy if you find yourself out
later than expected.

Take plenty of spare batteries, particularly if you are in the north of
the country in midsummer.

Quoted message said:

Pen/paper - To make notes if need to send someone to raise the alarm
in an emergency.

"Please send more champagne and smoked salmon, we are trapped in a
crevasse."

Quoted message said:

Rucksack - to put it all in, a 25-35l sack should be spot on for a day
walk, depending on how much extra kit (camera, ...) you like to carry.

So I can't just stuff a muesli-bar and compass in my pocket and set off
for a walk?

Quoted message said:

First aid kit - a basic selection of plasters/antispectic wipes Lunch
- plenty of energy food, leave some left over till the end as a backup
in case you get into trouble (a kendle mint bar makes handy emergency
rations)

And if you take enough spare food you'll probably find you will need it.

Quoted message said:

Drink - take plenty of water, 2l would be a minimum IMO, drink
frequently.

So for a family of four to five , 8 to 10 litres should do.

(During the course of a days walk, even if I carry it, I rarely manage
to consume a litre myself)

Quoted message said:

Extras - non-essential but have their uses Trecking pole - use that
wasted upper body power,

But make sure you use two, and that you walk in the correct manner.

Quoted message said:

GPS - handy backup to map/compass,

Or map and compass, handy backup to GPS

Quoted message said:

camera (goes without saying around here),

What only one? Surely you need a selection of bodies and lenses as well
as a sturdy tripod and a bean bag? Also is it to be 35mm, 6x4 or
digital?

Quoted message said:

phone - may feel it adds a sense of security or reduces feeling of
wilderness, reception can be iffy in the hills and use it with
discretion (passing walkers wont appreciate it)

Yes, remember that in the days before mobile telephones very few
ventured more than a 100 meters from the safety of their car.

Quoted message said:

Make sure to plan your walk carefuly before you leave, consider any
hazards the map suggests, check the weather forcast, plan shortcuts
off the hill,

Which obviously removes all the sense of discovery and spontaneity. You
should never say, "oh that looks interesting over their, I wonder what's
beyond the next horizon?"

Quoted message said:

let someone know where you`ve gone and when you are getting back and
tell them when you get back.

Don't worry, one day we'll all have tracking microchips implanted in our
bodies at birth, and we'll be tracked wherever we go until to our
graves.

Quoted message said:

Err, i`ve probably missed something essential off but can`t think
what...

A sense of adventure and an acknowledgement that life is a risk?

Quoted message said:

A few simple rules, they wont stop you getting into problems but will
make you much safer and aware.

Ed.

Please note the smileys but I couldn't resist ;-)

When I started hill walking I used to follow the advice and take more
and more equipment, that needed a bigger and bigger rucksack on the
off-chance that you should be prepared for all eventualities.

Then I realised that all that equipment was never used, and more to the
point it was interfering with my enjoyment of a day out. So now I look
for what can be left behind in order to strip the equipment to a minimum
and increase the pleasure of travelling fast and light over greater
distances.

But I guess that some of those decisions require experience and an
appreciation of the risks.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // || ,_ o Mike Clark, "An antibody engineer who also
<\__,\\ // __o || / /\, likes the mountains"
"> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> | Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:14:35 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Ed Whittaker wrote:
| >
| > As you found out, assume anything. As a resident of these isles, you
| > already know the weather can be a fickle thing, in the hills it is
| > even more true.Always expect the worst. You want clothes to keep you
| > warm and dry. The best way to achieve this is through layering - many
| > thin layers are better than one thick one, you can remove layers
| > according to changing conditions and the air between the layers will
| > be a better insulator
|
| Indeed, but don't forget you don't need a warm, waterproof coat to keep
| you warm and dry if it's a bonnie day. Not wearing stuff can be just as
| important as wearing it, the important thing is to have what you might
| need /available/ to wear, rather than wear it all the time (my sister is
| a teacher, her school had a week at a field centre and they'd emphasized
| layers were good... one lad claimed to be overheating on a nice day,
| investigation revealed he was wearing 7 layers!).
|
| > Boots:-
| > Essential, for hill walking you`l want boots with a decent tread to
| > give you good grip (look out for Vibram soles) and decent ankle
| > support to reduce the risk of any sprains/strains. I personaly swear
| > by leather boots but I know there are some pretty decent fabric
| > varieties around these days. IMHO Boots are what we do walking in and
| > walking is what we do, buy the best pair of boots you can afford,
| > you`l be pleased you did, money can be saved on other kit.
|
| Boots for walking are a useful lowest common denominator: you generally
| won't go too far wrong in boots, but they are in no way /essential/.
| You do need a good sole unit and whatever your wearing needs to fit well
| and be comfortable, but beyond that it's not quite so cut and dried.
| Lots of people go walking in shoes rather than boots and don't suffer
| from it (indeed, since they're lighter they suffer less fatigue in many
| cases), I usually go walking in sandals.
| Boots are clearly the best for winter work in snow and ice, but that's a
| bridge to cross when you come to it, with heavy winter boots highly
| overspecified for most walking and stiffer and heavier than you need
| means less comfort and more tired feet.
| But you do need a good sole, preferably cleat and stud, and whatever it
| is should be tried on for fit. Don't buy footwear mail order, try it on
| in person and try out alternatives. Everyone's feet are different
| shapes, so just because your wife loves a Brand X shoe don't assume it's
| right for you too.
|
| > Clothes:-
| > Socks - Decent pair of walking socks should help reduce the risk of
| > any blisters
|
| Good socks are some of the most cost-effective comfort bringers you can
| buy. There is a tendency to think "Over £10 for a pair of SOCKS!", but
| good socks like Smartwool, Bridgedales and Thor-Los really are worth
| getting IMHO.
|
| > Trousers - personal choice but not jeans/cords, when wet they become
| > v. heavy and take forever to dry out.
|
| And not only that, but when they're wet they tend to chafe. You want
| good freedom of movement as an essential point.
| Two general schools of practice here, stretchy to move with you, or
| baggy to allow you to move inside. Stretchy often means track suit
| leggings or similar, Ronhill Tracksters are a hillgoing favourite. The
| baggier approach is typified by "trekking trousers" from firms like
| Regatta, Craghoppers and Rohan (amongst many others). These tend to be
| more windproof than tracky bottoms and some people just don't like skin
| tight leggings, but they don't dry as quickly and are less comfortable
| if wet. They do have more pocket space, but I prefer not to have stuff
| in trouser pockets anyway if I'm walking, it just makes life less
| comfortable.
|
| > Top - I prefer a T-shirt and fleece
|
| Cotton Ts aren't really that great: once they get wet (sweat and/or
| rain) they tend to stay that way as cotton absorbs moisture and is slow
| to dry. The Magic Words are "base layer" and "wicking", shirts made
| from these fabrics will hold little moisture, dry fast and transport
| sweat away from your body, leaving you drier and more comfortable. Not
| to say you /can't/ walk in a cotton T, lots of people do, but you can do
| better.
|
| > Waterproofs - Waterproof trousers/top
|
| "breathable" waterproofs let out some moisture from inside caused by
| sweating. They don't let out as much as most people make, but they're
| more comfortable than completely non-porous kit. Breathable fabrics
| cost more though, and the more expensive ones are generally better at
| letting moisture out.
| A good hood, preferably with a stiffened peak, is advisable. Hoods
| which roll away into collars are usually designed to roll away into the
| collar as the primary requirement, rather than keep rain off your head,
| so I'd avoid those.
|
| Waterproofs are windproof, so they can do double duty there, but a pure
| windproof is usually lighter and more comfortable, and will keep out the
| worst of light rain as well. A light windproof jacket is often good
| all-day wear, while waterproofs may be better saved until it's seriously
| wet.
|
| If it isn't windy then umbrellas are very good: you don't lose view and
| hearing from a hood and they're actually often better at keeping you dry
| than a jacket. But in the wind they're not much use (may be a
| hindrance) and you can't assume you'll be able to use them. They should
| always be backed up with waterproof clothing.
|
| > Map and compass - Essential. Even more essential is knowing how to
| > use them.
|
| Depends where you're going though. Anyone who can get lost doing the
| circuit of Loch Muick would get lost going to their own bathroom. But
| as soon as you're well away from well marked paths you should have them.
|
| > Mapcase - plastic mapcase will ensure your map wont get shreaded in
| > the wind
|
| Wind is unlikely to damage a map, but rain can destroy them.
|
| > I`d reccomend Ordance Survey 1:25 000 Explorer maps
|
| Depends where you are: in some paces the level of detail actually makes
| it more difficult to see what's happening on the ground. The Cuillin
| Ridge is a classic example of 1:25,000 and 10m contours being just too
| much information.
| The 1:50,000 are a little cheaper, are adequate for most cases and cover
| a lot more area on each map. They are the de-facto standards for
| hillwalking. 1:25K are very handy if you need extra detail, handy in
| woodland and farmland.
|
| > Torch - to attract attention at night, handy if you find yourself out
| > later than expected.
|
| A headtorch is best: leaves hands free and light goes where you look.
| If you don't have one anyway they're very handy working around the house
| too. The LED ones go through batteries very slowly and cast a useful
| amount of light.
|
| > Rucksack - to put it all in, a 25-35l sack should be spot on for a day
| > walk, depending on how much extra kit (camera, ...) you like to carry.
|
| If you're carrying stuff for kids you may not /like/ to carry more, but
| you may be obliged to. When selecting a pack, try it out by putting the
| sort of load you expect to carry in it. If there's not enough room, you
| need a bigger one.
|
| > Drink - take plenty of water, 2l would be a minimum IMO, drink
| > frequently.
|
| I drink a fair bit, but rarely get through 2l in a day unless it's very
| hot and it's a long day (probably won't be /too/ long with kids in tow).
| Also note that if you're in the hills the streams are safe to drink
| out of with a little thought, and that saves you having to carry the
| stuff around.
|

Any newbie would be well and truely put off walking by the weight and cost
of that list. The above is a council of perfection, I have walked many
hills with less, often much less, because most of the above was not even
available when I were a lad. Good footwear, food, drink and extra
clothing for when you get on the tops are essential, plus something to cary
it in. Most important keep an eye on the weather, and turn back, or head
for the nearest/easiest road it it gets bad.

--
Dave F

Dave Fawthrop said:

Any newbie would be well and truely put off walking by the weight and cost
of that list. The above is a council of perfection

I don't really see that that's the case. What huge cost and weight have
I oulined? Layers are layers, not necessarily expensive ones, most
people have some sort of waterproof coat, many have some decent footwear.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:46:56 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| > Any newbie would be well and truely put off walking by the weight and cost
| > of that list. The above is a council of perfection
|
| I don't really see that that's the case. What huge cost and weight have
| I oulined? Layers are layers, not necessarily expensive ones, most
| people have some sort of waterproof coat, many have some decent footwear.

I forgot a map, compass and the ability to use them.

--
Dave F

Have a look ...
http://www.chiadfhear.co.uk/main/walking/equipment/

Michael said:

The header is not completely correct as I have been walking since ...

Dave Fawthrop said:

I forgot a map, compass and the ability to use them.

Who's putting people off now? There's plenty of walking to be had where
these aren't necessary.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

URL: said:

Dave Fawthrop said:

I forgot a map, compass and the ability to use them.

Who's putting people off now? There's plenty of walking to be had where
these aren't necessary.

Pete

I sometimes wonder. Do the people who come up with such lists of
"essentials", never in their lives go anywhere without them?

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:01:17 +0100, Mike Clark <[email hidden]> wrote:

| In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
| <URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
| > Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| >
| > > I forgot a map, compass and the ability to use them.
| >
| > Who's putting people off now? There's plenty of walking to be had where
| > these aren't necessary.
| >
| > Pete
|
| I sometimes wonder. Do the people who come up with such lists of
| "essentials", never in their lives go anywhere without them?

Well I have nearly come to grief (night on the moors between Ladybower and
Flouch) (long ago) because of lack of a compass, I tend to be a little
careful.

So I only walk without a map and compass if I absolutely know the route and
it is low level. High level routes, I never really know exactly where I
will end up. Waymarked routes I do not like or trust, one missed turn
and out comes the map.

--
Dave F

Following up to Dave Fawthrop

Quoted message said:

High level routes, I never really know exactly where I
will end up.

you want to get a map and compass then :-)
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Michael said:

What are the best things to wear?
What should you take with you?

Layers are important. It is worth buying proper walking kit although you
DON"T have to pay out a fortune for it.

To take with you: maps, compass (GPS if you must but always take a real
compass), first aid kit (you'd be surprised how often you can use it on
bumps and things), some kind of waterproof - and again this doesn't have to
cost a fortune. A mobile phone can be useful. I nearly always have a
platypus but water here is the main thing!

It's rare that I go walking without food. Proper sarnies or rolls are best.
Fruit is good - oranges are particularly good sources of energy. A small bar
of chocolate can be a great luxury at the end of a long walk. Energy bars
can also be useful although I must admit I don't think they really work any
better than any of the above.

I often have a book with me (for public transport journey's), often a small
notebook and I take a camera. The great thing about walking is that you can
combine it with other hobbies, like, photography.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

Always take a compass. It doesn't weigh (or cost) much

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop

URL: said:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:01:17 +0100, Mike Clark <[email hidden]> wrote:

| In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
| <URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
| > Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| >
| > > I forgot a map, compass and the ability to use them.
| >
| > Who's putting people off now? There's plenty of walking to be had where
| > these aren't necessary.
| >
| > Pete
|
| I sometimes wonder. Do the people who come up with such lists of
| "essentials", never in their lives go anywhere without them?

Well I have nearly come to grief (night on the moors between Ladybower and
Flouch)

Gosh.. night..and on the moors.. how terrible. It's common knowledge
that humans can't survive out of doors in the dark. I recall that
Parliament were at one stage proposing that their would not be any
rights of open access to land after sunset because no reasonable person
would venture out in the dark.

Quoted message said:

(long ago) because of lack of a compass, I tend to be a little
careful.

I remember a near disaster I had once when staying in Wasdale and
climbing a route on Great Gable. We topped out in early evening in
the cloud, and as we had been indulging in some lightweight recreational
rock climbing, we didn't have a map, compass, or head torch. We set off
in what we thought was the right direction, and as we dropped out of the
clouds I recognised where we were, Ennerdale... It was terrible, we
nearly missed last orders at Wasdale Head!

Quoted message said:

So I only walk without a map and compass if I absolutely know the
route and it is low level. High level routes, I never really know
exactly where I will end up.

Exactly, that can be part of the sense of exploration. You can often
take longer than expected, and also end up walking further than
expected, but you don't have to live in fear for your life.

Quoted message said:

Waymarked routes I do not like or trust,

I wouldn't recommend that you go walking in the Swiss Alps then. Far too
many waymarks, and they tend to be "High level routes" as well. Horror
of horrors, many swiss families seem to follow these trails without
taking map or compass!

Quoted message said:

one missed turn and out comes the map.

Sometimes it's fun to see how you cope without using a map. Depending
upon where you are, what time of year it is, and how fit you are, you
aren't necessarily in great risk even if you have to stay out overnight.
The important thing is often not to panic.[1]

[1] Do not follow the suggestions in this message unless you are old
enough to make your own risk assessment and prepared to suffer the
potential consequences of your own actions.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In article <BD527CEA.35814%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk>, Andy Howell

URL:mailto:andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said:

Michael said:

What are the best things to wear?
What should you take with you?

Layers are important.

Layers are the most common choice, but I know people who swear by
softshell garments such as a "Buffalo" smock, and salopettes, as the
only garments they wear outdoors in most conditions throughout the year.

Quoted message said:

It is worth buying proper walking kit although you DON"T have to pay
out a fortune for it.

To take with you: maps, compass (GPS if you must but always take a real
compass), first aid kit (you'd be surprised how often you can use it on
bumps and things), some kind of waterproof - and again this doesn't have to
cost a fortune.

and it doesn't have to be "waterproof", it could be just water and wind
resistant to counteract windchill.

Quoted message said:

A mobile phone can be useful. I nearly always have a platypus but
water here is the main thing!

But often if necessary you could find water along the route, so you
don't absolutely need to carry it.

Quoted message said:

It's rare that I go walking without food. Proper sarnies or rolls are
best. Fruit is good - oranges are particularly good sources of energy.
A small bar of chocolate can be a great luxury at the end of a long
walk. Energy bars can also be useful although I must admit I don't
think they really work any better than any of the above.

Again a fit person in good health is unlikely to die, or suffer major
problems, other than some minor discomfort, through lack of food over a
24 hours period.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // || ,_ o Mike Clark, "An antibody engineer who also
<\__,\\ // __o || / /\, likes the mountains"
"> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> | Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>

Mike Clark said:

Based on other recent threads you could of course find many alternative
views on this subject.

;-)

Very true, Google is your friend.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As you found out, assume anything. As a resident of these isles, you
already know the weather can be a fickle thing, in the hills it is
even more true.Always expect the worst. You want clothes to keep you
warm and dry.

But in summer it often doesn't matter too much if you're warm and wet.

True, I just like staying dry :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The best way to achieve this is through layering - many thin layers
are better than one thick one, you can remove layers according to
changing conditions and the air between the layers will be a better
insulator.

Or you could alternatively go for the soft-shell approach that has
insulating and water resistance in one layer, using zips to ventilate
when warm

e.g. Paramo or Buffalo

Are they still going, it always looked like an interesting concept but
looks like it needs a big first time investment.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so here goes... Boots:- Essential, for hill walking you`l want boots
with a decent tread to give you good grip (look out for Vibram soles)
and decent ankle support to reduce the risk of any sprains/strains.

Or you could just make do with a very good pair of sandals.

The original post did mention fell walking, i`ve always felt the support
from boots is at the least desirable for comfort. Put me in anything less
and i`l spend most of my time on my ass anyway. Obviously for low-level
walking, trainers, sandles, sensible old shoes, whatever... (Stiletoes may
be pushing it a bit..)

Quoted message said:

I've seen some argue that a GPS, and a spare GPS are all they need ;-)

I`l stick with my spare compass ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mapcase - plastic mapcase will ensure your map wont get shreaded in
the wind

Or you could just have small pieces of laminated map which aren't so
unwieldy in windy weather and don't make you look stupid for wandering
round with a plastic bag tied round your neck.

Agree about the neck-cord. I don`t want to be strangled by my map case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

At a minimum, know how to walk on a bearing, take a 6 fig grid
reference and understand scale and the key. There are many great
books on the subject if you need any help, however there is no
substute for practice.

Or you could follow the well worn footpaths and signs.

Horses for courses, I like to get off the path a bit. Agreed, for many
walks almost any nav skills are overkill but if I was walking in the
hills, i`d always want a way to accuractly describe a location.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I`d reccomend Ordance Survey 1:25 000 Explorer maps

Why not Anquet?

I might soon now more 1:25 000 disks are coming out.

Quoted message said:

Which reminds me that some friends of mine once navigated part of the
Haute Route with one of those topographical table place-mats that you
get in alpine restaurants.

I once helped someone on Fan Hir who was navigating off the map on the
back of a bus timetable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Survival/bivvy bag - a person sized orange polythene bag, provides
emergency shelter if you get into dificulties and a handy seat for
lunch on wet ground.

Of course you'll know from your granny that you'll die if you sit on
damp ground, especially in summer.

Hence the bag, better that than a wet backside!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Rucksack - to put it all in, a 25-35l sack should be spot on for a day
walk, depending on how much extra kit (camera, ...) you like to carry.

Quoted message said:

Drink - take plenty of water, 2l would be a minimum IMO, drink
frequently.

So for a family of four to five , 8 to 10 litres should do.

Fair point, I *meant* 1L. I`d rarely drink the full 1l out of summer but
with this heat, i`ve been getting through much more. Thanks to the group
for pointing out the joys of stream water, i`l start bottling it to take
home ;-)

Quoted message said:

(During the course of a days walk, even if I carry it, I rarely manage
to consume a litre myself)

Quoted message said:

camera (goes without saying around here),

Quoted message said:

phone - may feel it adds a sense of security or reduces feeling of
wilderness, reception can be iffy in the hills and use it with
discretion (passing walkers wont appreciate it)

Yes, remember that in the days before mobile telephones very few
ventured more than a 100 meters from the safety of their car.

Hmm, scary thought. I hope we never get to a time when folk are derided
for *not* carrying a mobile phone but even the rescue services appreciate
the considerate use of such device. When I`m out on my own, i`l take one,
turned off. But thats my choice and if you want to go off without one and
not leaving note of your journey, thats your choice and I accept that too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Make sure to plan your walk carefuly before you leave, consider any
hazards the map suggests, check the weather forcast, plan shortcuts
off the hill,

Which obviously removes all the sense of discovery and spontaneity. You
should never say, "oh that looks interesting over their, I wonder what's
beyond the next horizon?"

No, a brief check of the map will help you get to know the terrain,
consider what navigation techniques you *may* need, point out obsticles
you may want to take care with (steep cliffs, possibly fast flowing water
to cross,...), or even point out interesting points worth visiting that
you may otherwise miss.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let someone know where you`ve gone and when you are getting back and
tell them when you get back.

Don't worry, one day we'll all have tracking microchips implanted in our
bodies at birth, and we'll be tracked wherever we go until to our
graves.

Now thats just silly, letting someone know is fairly common sense unless
you are willing to accept the risks but to do that, you need experience
and the original poster was just starting out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Err, i`ve probably missed something essential off but can`t think
what...

A sense of adventure and an acknowledgement that life is a risk?

How about accepting that fell walking can be dangerous, the risks can
never be elliminated but at least some can be reduced by planning,
carrying the right gear and most importantly, getting out their and
gaining experience

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A few simple rules, they wont stop you getting into problems but will
make you much safer and aware.

Ed.

Please note the smileys but I couldn't resist ;-)

When I started hill walking I used to follow the advice and take more
and more equipment, that needed a bigger and bigger rucksack on the
off-chance that you should be prepared for all eventualities.

Then I realised that all that equipment was never used, and more to the
point it was interfering with my enjoyment of a day out. So now I look
for what can be left behind in order to strip the equipment to a minimum
and increase the pleasure of travelling fast and light over greater
distances.

If I was using my poly-bag everyweek, i`d be getting a bit worried ;-).
The point is it`s their for the unlikely chance that it is needed.

Quoted message said:

But I guess that some of those decisions require experience and an
appreciation of the risks.

I have no problem with that but as you said, these decisions require
experience. I must admit I wrote my initial response with possibly too
much regard to my walking (solo off-path walking in the Black Mountain)
but I still think my list makes a useful starting point and no, I don`t
carry that lot around the Gower with me!

Quoted message said:

Mike

Ed.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:14:35 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Agree with other comments

Quoted message said:

I drink a fair bit, but rarely get through 2l in a day unless it's very
hot and it's a long day (probably won't be /too/ long with kids in tow).
Also note that if you're in the hills the streams are safe to drink
out of with a little thought, and that saves you having to carry the
stuff around.

I messed up their, meant 1l but recently I`ve been getting through much
more in the heat. I`d second the streams, i`d never touched them until
reading some threads here and it beats the [censored] that Welsh Water charge me
for.

Quoted message said:

Pete.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:41:15 +0100, Mike Clark <[email hidden]> wrote:

| I remember a near disaster I had once when staying in Wasdale and
| climbing a route on Great Gable. We topped out in early evening in
| the cloud, and as we had been indulging in some lightweight recreational
| rock climbing, we didn't have a map, compass, or head torch. We set off
| in what we thought was the right direction, and as we dropped out of the
| clouds I recognised where we were, Ennerdale... It was terrible, we
| nearly missed last orders at Wasdale Head!

I was once at the ?Ogwen Valley? Youth hostel in Wales and a group was
overdue, so the everybody turned out to find them, stretcher and all.

They had taken longer than expected, and decided to stop for the night, on
the tops. Were they red faced when they were found safe and well?
Knowing exactly where they were did no good at all.

--
Dave F