Re: Hydration pack :-(

As I pointed out in an earlier post, you got the wrong pack. The pack you
got is suitable for biking or hiking perhaps, but anything that big, filled
with water, on your back is going to be a drag.

The Camelbak Catalyst is a waist pack. If you're going to go with a
hydration pack, it is the way to go.

"Ignoramus19691" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi

Quoted message said:

On 2004-09-23, Ignoramus19691 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Arrived yesterday... It's too heavy, and I will not take it to the
half marathon. It will still be useful, as I would like to do some
long distance running (10-15 miles in the beginning), and it will
probably help during training, where running time is not so critical.

I didn't think running time was critical here either though. Do you know
what your goals are ?

Good catch... Anyway, I do not want to risk my run by carrying this
relatively heavy pack. It is safer to experiment with it later on. No,
running time is not terribly important, but I do not want surprises
and being too encumbered by the pack or even being too slowed
down. The benefit to potential cost ratio does not justify taking it.

i

teknofyle said:

As I pointed out in an earlier post, you got the wrong pack. The pack you
got is suitable for biking or hiking perhaps, but anything that big, filled
with water, on your back is going to be a drag.

I do training runs of an hour or longer (on trails) with one of those
"tall" (with shoulder straps) Camelbacks all the time, except in the
summer when they're too hot. I'd much rather wear something on my
shoulders than around my waist--I hate the feeling of the belt on a
waist pack, with the full weight of that pack, bouncing against my
stomach. (The shoulder-worn Camelback does have a waist strap, but its
only function is to prevent the pack from shifting too far left or
right, or getting into a pendulum motion. It does not support the
weight of the pack, and I can wear its waist strap quite loosely.)

I suppose some summer I'll try one of the waist packs, but for the time
being I just drop a water bottle at the intersection of some trails, and
hope no one picks it up. I've had several helpful people put my water
bottles in trash cans...

Anyway, I would not say that a shoulder bag is a drag. Nothing says you
have to fill it all the way. I put about a pint in mine for most runs.
Whether it would be suitable for the original poster's purpose is a
question only he can decide.

Mike McSwell

"teknofyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I pointed out in an earlier post, you got the wrong pack. The pack you
got is suitable for biking or hiking perhaps, but anything that big,

filled

Quoted message said:

with water, on your back is going to be a drag.

True it looks a bit big for short races but it looks just dandy for ultras.
;-)

Tim

For Ultras, I'm sure it would be wonderful. But I figure Iggy won't be
running an Ultra for at least a couple of more weeks.

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"teknofyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I pointed out in an earlier post, you got the wrong pack. The pack you
got is suitable for biking or hiking perhaps, but anything that big,

filled

Quoted message said:

with water, on your back is going to be a drag.

True it looks a bit big for short races but it looks just dandy for
ultras.
;-)

Tim

Ignoramus19691 said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

teknofyle said:

As I pointed out in an earlier post, you got the wrong pack. The pack
you got is suitable for biking or hiking perhaps, but anything that
big, filled with water, on your back is going to be a drag.

The Camelbak Catalyst is a waist pack. If you're going to go with a
hydration pack, it is the way to go.

Thanks. If I enjoy this race enough to twna to run long distances
more, I will buy another HP.

I agree with teknofyle. CamelBak has some of the best hydration packs for
runners. Their two waist pack styles, the Catalyst and the FlashFlo, are
designed specifically for runners. They don't hold as much fluid as the
over the shoulder style packs, but they ride more smoothly. Not as much
bounce. I use the FlashFlo, which holds about 50 oz, plus plenty of cargo
area. I've tried the Rogue, which holds 70 oz, but I never could get used
to the weight and bouncing on my shoulders and back. Others on the group,
such as Dot, like the over the shoulder style, so it is a YMMV type of
thing. The FlashFlo will get me to ~12 miles, for anything past that I'll
stash bottles on the route. The Catalyst holds 28 oz which for me would
get me to about 8 miles. At this mileage I would not bring any fluids.
For runs in the 8 - 10 mile range I bring a hand-held bottle. Again,
there are bottles designed specifically for runners. The one I use is the
Brooks Waterboy Handheld.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/gear/accessories/m_sea_waterhandheld_detail.
htm

Another bottle that is very popular amoung ultra runners (those who do
races of 50 km and up) is the Ultimate direction fastdraw

http://www.ultimatedirection.com/fastdraw_plus.html
http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~austinmw/trason2.jpg

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." ­Martin Vanbee

Phil M. wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

....
there are bottles designed specifically for runners. The one I use is the
Brooks Waterboy Handheld.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/gear/accessories/m_sea_waterhandheld_detail.
htm

Another bottle that is very popular amoung ultra runners (those who do
races of 50 km and up) is the Ultimate direction fastdraw

http://www.ultimatedirection.com/fastdraw_plus.html
http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~austinmw/trason2.jpg

Phil M.

I find handhelds great for intermediate length runs 80 to 120 mins,
especially when its hot. You always remember to drink with handhelds.
After a while you get used to carrying them.

I've tried bladder waist and shoulder packs, as well as bottle waist packs.
Finally I found a 2 bottle (40oz) waist pack that works great and does not
bounce at all. Its ultimate direction, but I think its been discontinued as
I got it on sale at sierra trading post. It has smaller gear pockets than
most 2 bottle packs, and the bottles are angled for easy access and so that
it fits into the small of the back better. I would highly recommend this if
it can be found. I think Dot got one too.

I used this pack for my recent 50k and it was perfect. I ended up using
only one bottle and lending the other one to someone. Bottles are far
easier to fill in an ultra than bladders. Also it has just the right amount
of space for gels, energy bars, pouches of clip 2, and a place to strap your
shirt on the bottom of it. I used this for a very long wilderness run too
using one hand carry and taking one purifier bottle to refill the other 2
bottles from streams. Just enough room for minimal survival gear and food
also.

- Tony

Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

I find handhelds great for intermediate length runs 80 to 120 mins,
especially when its hot. You always remember to drink with handhelds.
After a while you get used to carrying them.

Even the first time using the Brooks handheld was comfortable. The neoprene
strap keeps it nicely secured without having to grip it. The only think is
that the pouch is so tiny, I'm not sure why they even bothered putting it
there. Maybe enough room for one Succeed! cap.

Phil M.

Phil M. wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

I find handhelds great for intermediate length runs 80 to 120 mins,
especially when its hot. You always remember to drink with handhelds.
After a while you get used to carrying them.

Even the first time using the Brooks handheld was comfortable. The neoprene
strap keeps it nicely secured without having to grip it. The only think is
that the pouch is so tiny, I'm not sure why they even bothered putting it
there. Maybe enough room for one Succeed! cap.

Maybe a key? I think the fastdraw plus has pockets also. I have a couple
of fastdraws. If I'm only using one or 2 handhelds, there's little need for
anything else so I didn't bother to upgrade.

BTW, that Ultimate Direction 2 bottle pack I spoke about is the "Extender
'02" for those interested.

- Tony

Tony said:

I've tried bladder waist and shoulder packs, as well as bottle waist packs.
Finally I found a 2 bottle (40oz) waist pack that works great and does not
bounce at all. Its ultimate direction, but I think its been discontinued as
I got it on sale at sierra trading post. It has smaller gear pockets than
most 2 bottle packs, and the bottles are angled for easy access and so that
it fits into the small of the back better. I would highly recommend this if
it can be found. I think Dot got one too.

For bottles, I'm using a UD Strider - single, diagonal bottle with a
small pouch in front (camera or gps size), rides over the hip. I got a
UD Extender primarily for the detachable pocket in front (really cheap
sale, got system for what pocket would probably cost if I could find one
like it, and I'm too lazy right now to build my own). It's got 2
diagonal bottles, storage in back, as well as small pocket and bungees
up front. But I've never used it. Although it looks a lot like big
brother to the strider, it doesn't fit like it (was going to try it one
day, but decided I wanted something more comfortable). Realistically, if
I'm going to need 2 bottles, I'm looking at 2 hr and probably want more
cargo capacity, at least in winter. But I think the diagonal bottles
help with fit. There's some with horizontal bottles also.

The Strider is working well for me on hot 45-60 min runs or cooler runs
up to maybe 1.5 hrs - too short for camelbak but long enough to prefer
having a drink along.

I don't think I saw either the Strider or Extender on STP the other day
when I was browsing, but I think the Strider is still made.

I use the cb Lobo for summer long runs and Cloudwalker (more gear space
for fleece) for winter long runs.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

The Strider is working well for me on hot 45-60 min runs or cooler
runs up to maybe 1.5 hrs - too short for camelbak but long enough to
prefer having a drink along.

I'm still using the FlashFlo. I've grown to really like it and am very
comfortable with it. The bouncing is very minimal and only at the start
when I have more than 50 oz pumped into it (specs say it only takes 45 oz).

Quoted message said:

I don't think I saw either the Strider or Extender on STP the other
day when I was browsing, but I think the Strider is still made.

Here's the extender - http://tinyurl.com/6kacs

Phil M.

Phil M. said:

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

The Strider is working well for me on hot 45-60 min runs or cooler
runs up to maybe 1.5 hrs - too short for camelbak but long enough to
prefer having a drink along.

I'm still using the FlashFlo. I've grown to really like it and am very
comfortable with it. The bouncing is very minimal and only at the start
when I have more than 50 oz pumped into it (specs say it only takes 45 oz).

Quoted message said:

I don't think I saw either the Strider or Extender on STP the other
day when I was browsing, but I think the Strider is still made.

Here's the extender - http://tinyurl.com/6kacs

Phil M.

Jeez, am I the only person who just uses those little plastic water
bottles (refilled umpteen times before throwing away) you can get in 6
packs at the store? <g>

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Mike Tennent said:

Phil M. said:

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

The Strider is working well for me on hot 45-60 min runs or cooler
runs up to maybe 1.5 hrs - too short for camelbak but long enough to
prefer having a drink along.

I'm still using the FlashFlo. I've grown to really like it and am very
comfortable with it. The bouncing is very minimal and only at the
start when I have more than 50 oz pumped into it (specs say it only
takes 45 oz).

Quoted message said:

I don't think I saw either the Strider or Extender on STP the other
day when I was browsing, but I think the Strider is still made.

Here's the extender - http://tinyurl.com/6kacs

Phil M.

Jeez, am I the only person who just uses those little plastic water
bottles (refilled umpteen times before throwing away) you can get in 6
packs at the store? <g>

That's what I use for my long runs when I have to go longer than 13 miles.
I just ask my wife to by herself some coke in plastic 20 oz bottles
whenever I lose them. Or just rummage around in my neighbor's trash.

Phil M.

"Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeez, am I the only person who just uses those little plastic water
bottles (refilled umpteen times before throwing away) you can get in 6
packs at the store? <g>

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Nope, although my preference is for 20-oz empty soda bottles. When I run, I
carry them in a <$10.00 dual-bottle [censored] pack (with room for a 3rd bottle
in the pouch for really long runs).

DrLith, Skinflint Extraordinaire

Mike Tennent said:

Jeez, am I the only person who just uses those little plastic water
bottles (refilled umpteen times before throwing away) you can get in 6
packs at the store? <g>

Those are the containers of choice for driving and meetings 😉 (although
I have used my camelbak for drives to the Brooks Range) Actually, I
prefer the gatorade bottles with the twist tops since I don't have to
unscrew a cap - and still refilling the ones from 3 years ago (when I
last used gatorade) 😉

Actually, the little bottles are really bad in cold weather - freeze
early and hard to get small tops off 🙁

And I learned about misjudging hydration 2 yrs ago 😉 🙁

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Tennent said:

Jeez, am I the only person who just uses those little plastic water
bottles (refilled umpteen times before throwing away) you can get in 6
packs at the store? <g>

Those are the containers of choice for driving and meetings 😉 (although
I have used my camelbak for drives to the Brooks Range) Actually, I
prefer the gatorade bottles with the twist tops since I don't have to
unscrew a cap - and still refilling the ones from 3 years ago (when I
last used gatorade) 😉

Actually, the little bottles are really bad in cold weather - freeze
early and hard to get small tops off 🙁

And I learned about misjudging hydration 2 yrs ago 😉 🙁

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Put a little Gatorade or other sport drink mix in for flavor and the
freezing point is lowered. Adding a bit of salt lowers it even more.

Of course, I doubt I ever run long enough when it is cold enough to freeze
water in a pack!

Sam said:

Put a little Gatorade or other sport drink mix in for flavor and the
freezing point is lowered. Adding a bit of salt lowers it even more.

not at -20F 😉 Full strength gatorade was the fluid in use when I had
my first slushie while running (probably near 0F). It's an interesting
sound when the swish-swish in the bottle suddenly turns to clunk-clunk,
about the same time my hood started freezing, etc.

Quoted message said:

Of course, I doubt I ever run long enough when it is cold enough to freeze
water in a pack!

Camelbaks or other hydration bladders seem to be the weapon of choice up
here for winter activities. I watched the start of Susitna 100 last year
- as much to see what they were using for gear as anything else. They
were using insulation like pipe insulation on their tubes - also like UD
provides on their winter kits. I don't think I saw a one with the wimpy
insulation that camelbak has standard on their winter kits. Hydrate or
die is as important in cold weather as in hot weather.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

Put a little Gatorade or other sport drink mix in for flavor and the
freezing point is lowered. Adding a bit of salt lowers it even more.

not at -20F 😉 Full strength gatorade was the fluid in use when I had
my first slushie while running (probably near 0F). It's an interesting
sound when the swish-swish in the bottle suddenly turns to clunk-clunk,
about the same time my hood started freezing, etc.

Quoted message said:

Of course, I doubt I ever run long enough when it is cold enough to

freeze

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

water in a pack!

Camelbaks or other hydration bladders seem to be the weapon of choice up
here for winter activities. I watched the start of Susitna 100 last year
- as much to see what they were using for gear as anything else. They
were using insulation like pipe insulation on their tubes - also like UD
provides on their winter kits. I don't think I saw a one with the wimpy
insulation that camelbak has standard on their winter kits. Hydrate or
die is as important in cold weather as in hot weather.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog