total frustration (long!!)

Quoted message said:

maybe like different length legs or whatever.

Chiro.

Quoted message said:

I'm willing to listen. Any expressions of sympathy
or pity are also welcome. 🙁

How big are they?

Hey Mandy--

Sorry for your troubles. I guess the supinators all came out tonight. (I was
musing that I am one too, in a later post).

If your knee is like a balloon, surely the Sports Medicine doctor can see
you sooner...otherwise maybe you need a new doctor.

You don't say how old you are, but when I went to my SM doctor, he gently
and diplomatically suggested to me that perhaps I am not a marathon runner.
I never had any problems with injury when I only ran 5 miles at a time. But
after I told hiim how important a particular marathon is to me (and I've
gotten an early start...it's not until March) he said, "ok for this time,
but don't expect to make it a habit." So I'm taking it easier than I would
have. I have a half marathon coming up in 3 months and I've run 10, so I
feel very confident that in a race scenario I can do 13.1. Still, I'm trying
to keep a milder case of what you have at bay. Mercifully, I don't have
swelling.

I hope you feel better and get a doctor to see you!

tek

"Mandy Barto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone.
I'm totally frustrated. I feel like I have done everything right, yet
I can't stay un-injured.

I was training for a Memorial Day marathon but had some ITB trouble in
April, so I backed off, cross trained, etc. for a couple of weeks. I
have stayed at 20 mpw or so since early July (I also had a shoe
adjustment), with no run longer than six miles and have felt great. My
dad signed us up for a December marathon, about which I was totally
excited.

So then, two weeks ago I ran 8 one day (kind of spontaneously on a day
I planned to run 6) and felt awesome (that week, probably ran 4, 8, 6,
4). Then, the week after, I ran 8 again, felt good, probably ran
another 6 and 4 that week, but then that next Monday went out and had
to stop and turn back after 2 because of excrutiating pain in my left
hip/pelvis. I had been kind of ingnoring what felt like just like a
tight inner thigh muscle thing, but I realized it was more like the
old ITB thing )not just pain, but more like "give" or like a
collapse). Now my knee is swollen like a balloon, and when I try to
stand up afer sitting for a while the hip takes a few seconds to
respond 🙁 The new problem is on the oppostite side as my old ITB
problem, which I thought was kind of weird (and sucky), because I kind
of always thought that I just had a general right-side-of-the-body
problem, maybe like different length legs or whatever.

Anyway, the reason I'm totally frustrated is because I feel like I've
been so careful and not made the training errors I did before. I warm
up, stretch after running (hip, ham, quad, calf etc stretches), lift,
didn't increase too fast (for the love of Larry, 8 miles is
NOTHING!!!), ice, rest and elevate liberally 🙂...

Also, I am a pretty severe suppinator (sp?). I wear Asics Gel Cumulus,
which feel great, and I never have any foot pain while running, but I
have a pretty nasty sharp pain in the outside bottom of left foot when
not running. This alone wouldn't really bug me too much, but I kind of
associate it with the new left knee-hip thing.

At the first sign of this new/recurring hip/knee thing I made an
appointment with a sports medicine doc, but of course he can't see me
for another 2 weeks (4 weeks from when I made the appt). I feel so
tense because I am getting off track for training for December (and I
don't even know if I can run the bloody 5k portion of the sprint
triathlon in two weeks), and I just want to be able to run 🙁 I love
swimming, which I have been doing 3-4 times a week when I can't run,
but the elliptical (which I've been doing almost every day, and I hope
it's not making whatever problen I have worse--it doesn't hurt, and
when it was the other side it seemed fine, I dunno) makes me want to
barf.

Yeah, so I don't really think I'm asking for any advice, but if anyone
has any comments, I'm willing to listen. Any expressions of sympathy
or pity are also welcome. 🙁

Mandy

Hey Mandy--

Sorry for your troubles. I guess the supinators all came out tonight. (I was
musing that I am one too, in a later post).

If your knee is like a balloon, surely the Sports Medicine doctor can see
you sooner...otherwise maybe you need a new doctor.

You don't say how old you are, but when I went to my SM doctor, he gently
and diplomatically suggested to me that perhaps I am not a marathon runner.
I never had any problems with injury when I only ran 5 miles at a time. But
after I told hiim how important a particular marathon is to me (and I've
gotten an early start...it's not until March) he said, "ok for this time,
but don't expect to make it a habit." So I'm taking it easier than I would
have. I have a half marathon coming up in 3 months and I've run 10, so I
feel very confident that in a race scenario I can do 13.1. Still, I'm trying
to keep a milder case of what you have at bay. Mercifully, I don't have
swelling.

I hope you feel better and get a doctor to see you!

tek

"Mandy Barto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone.
I'm totally frustrated. I feel like I have done everything right, yet
I can't stay un-injured.

I was training for a Memorial Day marathon but had some ITB trouble in
April, so I backed off, cross trained, etc. for a couple of weeks. I
have stayed at 20 mpw or so since early July (I also had a shoe
adjustment), with no run longer than six miles and have felt great. My
dad signed us up for a December marathon, about which I was totally
excited.

So then, two weeks ago I ran 8 one day (kind of spontaneously on a day
I planned to run 6) and felt awesome (that week, probably ran 4, 8, 6,
4). Then, the week after, I ran 8 again, felt good, probably ran
another 6 and 4 that week, but then that next Monday went out and had
to stop and turn back after 2 because of excrutiating pain in my left
hip/pelvis. I had been kind of ingnoring what felt like just like a
tight inner thigh muscle thing, but I realized it was more like the
old ITB thing )not just pain, but more like "give" or like a
collapse). Now my knee is swollen like a balloon, and when I try to
stand up afer sitting for a while the hip takes a few seconds to
respond 🙁 The new problem is on the oppostite side as my old ITB
problem, which I thought was kind of weird (and sucky), because I kind
of always thought that I just had a general right-side-of-the-body
problem, maybe like different length legs or whatever.

Anyway, the reason I'm totally frustrated is because I feel like I've
been so careful and not made the training errors I did before. I warm
up, stretch after running (hip, ham, quad, calf etc stretches), lift,
didn't increase too fast (for the love of Larry, 8 miles is
NOTHING!!!), ice, rest and elevate liberally 🙂...

Also, I am a pretty severe suppinator (sp?). I wear Asics Gel Cumulus,
which feel great, and I never have any foot pain while running, but I
have a pretty nasty sharp pain in the outside bottom of left foot when
not running. This alone wouldn't really bug me too much, but I kind of
associate it with the new left knee-hip thing.

At the first sign of this new/recurring hip/knee thing I made an
appointment with a sports medicine doc, but of course he can't see me
for another 2 weeks (4 weeks from when I made the appt). I feel so
tense because I am getting off track for training for December (and I
don't even know if I can run the bloody 5k portion of the sprint
triathlon in two weeks), and I just want to be able to run 🙁 I love
swimming, which I have been doing 3-4 times a week when I can't run,
but the elliptical (which I've been doing almost every day, and I hope
it's not making whatever problen I have worse--it doesn't hurt, and
when it was the other side it seemed fine, I dunno) makes me want to
barf.

Yeah, so I don't really think I'm asking for any advice, but if anyone
has any comments, I'm willing to listen. Any expressions of sympathy
or pity are also welcome. 🙁

Mandy

"teknofyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hey Mandy--

Sorry for your troubles. I guess the supinators all came out tonight. (I was
musing that I am one too, in a later post).

If your knee is like a balloon, surely the Sports Medicine doctor can see
you sooner...otherwise maybe you need a new doctor.

You don't say how old you are, but when I went to my SM doctor, he gently
and diplomatically suggested to me that perhaps I am not a marathon runner.
I never had any problems with injury when I only ran 5 miles at a time. But
after I told hiim how important a particular marathon is to me (and I've
gotten an early start...it's not until March) he said, "ok for this time,
but don't expect to make it a habit." So I'm taking it easier than I would
have. I have a half marathon coming up in 3 months and I've run 10, so I
feel very confident that in a race scenario I can do 13.1. Still, I'm trying
to keep a milder case of what you have at bay. Mercifully, I don't have
swelling.

I hope you feel better and get a doctor to see you!

tek

Thanks, Tek.
I'm 29 and have been athletic my whole life (competitive gymnast, 3
sports in high school, Div. I field hockey in college etc) but the
last year or so has been the first time I have used running as my
primary exercise. I got up to about 14 miles with few problems in the
spring (did a half, a couple of ten milers), then started to have pain
and stupidly increased to 16 and fell apart.

Like you, this particular marathon is kind of important to me. My dad
and I have had so much fun doing the 10 milers, the half, triathlons,,
long runs together, and we will be 30 and 60 this year, and I wanted
to run it with him rather than do one on my own. I know I'm putting
too much pressure to do THIS one--what I REALLY want to be able to do
is still run in general. Also, like you, I'm afraid the doc will say
that I'm not a distance runner...🙁 We'll see.

It IS kinda weird that the swelling won't go down. Damn that whole
walking-to-get-around thing 😉

Good luck with your training!!

[email hidden] (Mandy Barto) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone.
I'm totally frustrated. I feel like I have done everything right, yet
I can't stay un-injured.

I can understand the frustration.

Quoted message said:

I was training for a Memorial Day marathon but had some ITB trouble in
April, so I backed off, cross trained, etc. for a couple of weeks. I
have stayed at 20 mpw or so since early July (I also had a shoe
adjustment), with no run longer than six miles and have felt great. My
dad signed us up for a December marathon, about which I was totally
excited.

So then, two weeks ago I ran 8 one day (kind of spontaneously on a day
I planned to run 6) and felt awesome (that week, probably ran 4, 8, 6,
4). Then, the week after, I ran 8 again, felt good, probably ran
another 6 and 4 that week, but then that next Monday went out and had
to stop and turn back after 2 because of excrutiating pain in my left
hip/pelvis.

[]

Quoted message said:

Anyway, the reason I'm totally frustrated is because I feel like I've
been so careful and not made the training errors I did before. I warm
up, stretch after running (hip, ham, quad, calf etc stretches), lift,
didn't increase too fast (for the love of Larry, 8 miles is
NOTHING!!!), ice, rest and elevate liberally 🙂...

Judging from your comments, 8miles is a 33% increase in your long run
milage, so that's not nothing. Then you follow it up the same way the
following week. And because you "felt awesome", you likely went out at
a fast pace both times.
I guess I'm not being very sympathetic here but it seems to me that
for those two runs you were not so careful.

Quoted message said:

At the first sign of this new/recurring hip/knee thing I made an
appointment with a sports medicine doc, but of course he can't see me
for another 2 weeks (4 weeks from when I made the appt). I feel so
tense because I am getting off track for training for December (and I
don't even know if I can run the bloody 5k portion of the sprint
triathlon in two weeks), and I just want to be able to run 🙁 I love
swimming, which I have been doing 3-4 times a week when I can't run,
but the elliptical (which I've been doing almost every day, and I hope
it's not making whatever problen I have worse--it doesn't hurt, and
when it was the other side it seemed fine, I dunno) makes me want to
barf.

Yeah, so I don't really think I'm asking for any advice, but if anyone
has any comments, I'm willing to listen. Any expressions of sympathy
or pity are also welcome. 🙁

Mandy

Your doctor's appointment and the sprint tri are the same week? Listen
to your body. It's telling you you are doing too much. That's my take
on this topic.

Take care,
ed

[email hidden] (Ed prochak) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Mandy Barto) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone.
I'm totally frustrated. I feel like I have done everything right, yet
I can't stay un-injured.

I can understand the frustration.

Quoted message said:

I was training for a Memorial Day marathon but had some ITB trouble in
April, so I backed off, cross trained, etc. for a couple of weeks. I
have stayed at 20 mpw or so since early July (I also had a shoe
adjustment), with no run longer than six miles and have felt great. My
dad signed us up for a December marathon, about which I was totally
excited.

So then, two weeks ago I ran 8 one day (kind of spontaneously on a day
I planned to run 6) and felt awesome (that week, probably ran 4, 8, 6,
4). Then, the week after, I ran 8 again, felt good, probably ran
another 6 and 4 that week, but then that next Monday went out and had
to stop and turn back after 2 because of excrutiating pain in my left
hip/pelvis.

[]

Quoted message said:

Anyway, the reason I'm totally frustrated is because I feel like I've
been so careful and not made the training errors I did before. I warm
up, stretch after running (hip, ham, quad, calf etc stretches), lift,
didn't increase too fast (for the love of Larry, 8 miles is
NOTHING!!!), ice, rest and elevate liberally 🙂...

Judging from your comments, 8miles is a 33% increase in your long run
milage, so that's not nothing. Then you follow it up the same way the
following week. And because you "felt awesome", you likely went out at
a fast pace both times.
I guess I'm not being very sympathetic here but it seems to me that
for those two runs you were not so careful.

Quoted message said:

At the first sign of this new/recurring hip/knee thing I made an
appointment with a sports medicine doc, but of course he can't see me
for another 2 weeks (4 weeks from when I made the appt). I feel so
tense because I am getting off track for training for December (and I
don't even know if I can run the bloody 5k portion of the sprint
triathlon in two weeks), and I just want to be able to run 🙁 I love
swimming, which I have been doing 3-4 times a week when I can't run,
but the elliptical (which I've been doing almost every day, and I hope
it's not making whatever problen I have worse--it doesn't hurt, and
when it was the other side it seemed fine, I dunno) makes me want to
barf.

Yeah, so I don't really think I'm asking for any advice, but if anyone
has any comments, I'm willing to listen. Any expressions of sympathy
or pity are also welcome. 🙁

Mandy

Your doctor's appointment and the sprint tri are the same week? Listen
to your body. It's telling you you are doing too much. That's my take
on this topic.

Take care,
ed

Yeah, the doc is the Wed. after the tri.

I don't know, it just doesn't feel like I've been too ambitious--I was
holding back for so long 🙁

In my case (sadly), I'm probably not a longer distance runner. I have run
under 5 miles off and on for years, often with no training, often balls-out
with no ill effects. I started noticing the pain on my first 6-miler.

Now it is a personal crusade to find a way to manage the pain through this
marathon. And finish.

"Mandy Barto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"teknofyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hey Mandy--

Sorry for your troubles. I guess the supinators all came out tonight. (I
was
musing that I am one too, in a later post).

If your knee is like a balloon, surely the Sports Medicine doctor can see
you sooner...otherwise maybe you need a new doctor.

You don't say how old you are, but when I went to my SM doctor, he gently
and diplomatically suggested to me that perhaps I am not a marathon
runner.
I never had any problems with injury when I only ran 5 miles at a time.
But
after I told hiim how important a particular marathon is to me (and I've
gotten an early start...it's not until March) he said, "ok for this time,
but don't expect to make it a habit." So I'm taking it easier than I
would
have. I have a half marathon coming up in 3 months and I've run 10, so I
feel very confident that in a race scenario I can do 13.1. Still, I'm
trying
to keep a milder case of what you have at bay. Mercifully, I don't have
swelling.

I hope you feel better and get a doctor to see you!

tek

Thanks, Tek.
I'm 29 and have been athletic my whole life (competitive gymnast, 3
sports in high school, Div. I field hockey in college etc) but the
last year or so has been the first time I have used running as my
primary exercise. I got up to about 14 miles with few problems in the
spring (did a half, a couple of ten milers), then started to have pain
and stupidly increased to 16 and fell apart.

Like you, this particular marathon is kind of important to me. My dad
and I have had so much fun doing the 10 milers, the half, triathlons,,
long runs together, and we will be 30 and 60 this year, and I wanted
to run it with him rather than do one on my own. I know I'm putting
too much pressure to do THIS one--what I REALLY want to be able to do
is still run in general. Also, like you, I'm afraid the doc will say
that I'm not a distance runner...🙁 We'll see.

It IS kinda weird that the swelling won't go down. Damn that whole
walking-to-get-around thing 😉

Good luck with your training!!

Quoted message said:

I have run
under 5 miles off and on for years, often with no training, often balls-out
with no ill effects.

Really? Then WHAT'S THIS SAY BELOW?

Quoted message said:

I started noticing the pain on my first 6-miler.

You really think one extra mile is responsible for this? Think again. If you
run with little or no training you will pay sooner or later. Learn.

Dropping an egg, huh?

Dropping an egg, huh?

You bring up good points. I'm up to 20+ mpw now, this after a buildup over
three months. Maybe it is too much, too soon...in my case, it's no big deal
as the marathon isn't until March 2005.

"TheBillRodgerz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have run
under 5 miles off and on for years, often with no training, often
balls-out
with no ill effects.

Really? Then WHAT'S THIS SAY BELOW?

Quoted message said:

I started noticing the pain on my first 6-miler.

You really think one extra mile is responsible for this? Think again. If
you
run with little or no training you will pay sooner or later. Learn.

Quoted message said:

You bring up good points. I'm up to 20+ mpw now, this after a buildup over
three months. Maybe it is too much, too soon...in my case, it's no big deal
as the marathon isn't until March 2005.

Then just keep building gradually up to it.
Good luck.

[email hidden] (Ed prochak) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip about spending the summer coming back from a spring injury]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So then, two weeks ago I ran 8 one day (kind of spontaneously on a day
I planned to run 6) and felt awesome (that week, probably ran 4, 8, 6,
4). Then, the week after, I ran 8 again, felt good, probably ran
another 6 and 4 that week, but then that next Monday went out and had
to stop and turn back after 2 because of excrutiating pain in my left
hip/pelvis.

Judging from your comments, 8miles is a 33% increase in your long run
milage, so that's not nothing. Then you follow it up the same way the
following week. And because you "felt awesome", you likely went out at
a fast pace both times.
I guess I'm not being very sympathetic here but it seems to me that
for those two runs you were not so careful.

Quoted message said:

Your doctor's appointment and the sprint tri are the same week? Listen
to your body. It's telling you you are doing too much. That's my take
on this topic.

Yabbut I WAS listening to my body when I ran 8. I had been increasing
the "long" run slooowly from 4, 5, 6 for the past two months and I
felt good. I always start really slowly, even when I feel good, even
in a race (I'm not much of a "racer," obviously lol). And after the
first time I ran 8, I did it again the next week (i.e. didn't increase
again) BECAUSE my body told me I was a-ok.

Of course, now I feel like [censored], but I wonder if we all really think
that it was increasing too fast (i.e. is 6 to 8 really such a big deal
when the total weekly mileage increases zero or one mile--I know it's
33% for the one run) that was my problem or a more basic structural or
running style issue, or other insidious injury that would have
happened anyway.

Whaddya think?

Quoted message said:

Whaddya think?

That your Jean Barto, a very sad troll.

[email hidden] (Mandy Barto) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ed prochak) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip about spending the summer coming back from a spring injury]

Quoted message said:

Judging from your comments, 8miles is a 33% increase in your long run
milage, so that's not nothing. Then you follow it up the same way the
following week. And because you "felt awesome", you likely went out at
a fast pace both times.
I guess I'm not being very sympathetic here but it seems to me that
for those two runs you were not so careful.

Quoted message said:

Your doctor's appointment and the sprint tri are the same week? Listen
to your body. It's telling you you are doing too much. That's my take
on this topic.

Yabbut I WAS listening to my body when I ran 8. I had been increasing
the "long" run slooowly from 4, 5, 6 for the past two months and I
felt good. I always start really slowly, even when I feel good, even
in a race (I'm not much of a "racer," obviously lol). And after the
first time I ran 8, I did it again the next week (i.e. didn't increase
again) BECAUSE my body told me I was a-ok.

I like Galloway's approach to extending the long run:
increase it one week,
run HALF that for the long run the following week.

Quoted message said:

Of course, now I feel like [censored], but I wonder if we all really think
that it was increasing too fast (i.e. is 6 to 8 really such a big deal
when the total weekly mileage increases zero or one mile--I know it's
33% for the one run) that was my problem or a more basic structural or
running style issue, or other insidious injury that would have
happened anyway.

Whaddya think?

(Unless you filtered him out, watch for about 5-6 messages from Bill
right here with half or more being just insults and one ranting about
Nike being [censored].)

My impression, beginning about a year or more ago, is that increases
should be followed by a stable period so the adjustment can be firmly
established. The old guideline of 10% per week seemed not to work
well. I think a couple of the other regulars voiced similar views at
times.

BUT even the 10% rule was for new runners. You were in recovery mode.
It seems really hard to be conservative then because you just know you
can do a certain run faster. I know, I've made this mistake too. It's
a little like pacing at the start of a race, if you don't hold
yourself back, even when you feel great on the run, you are likely to
suffer in the end.

I may be in the minority, but that's what I think.

The only other thing I can say is: Remember experience is the thing
you get about 5seconds After you need it.

Enjoy.
ed