Increasing stride length...

noname said:

After running at 180spm for a week, my miles are averaging around 8:30
on about a 3-5 mile run.

Give it longer than a week. Addaptations will take time. Give it
months at the same pace, use this time to build mileage slowly.

noname said:

Hello,

This is my first post to this newsgroup. But I've been a regular reader
for quite awhile now. Great stuff.

I'm a regular runner. Now running four days a week minimum. Usually
10-20 miles per week. Based on information in this group and elsewhere,
I've upped my cadence to 180spm. This has been great for me. My form
has improved, and I can actually run farther expending less energy --
although it does tend to irritate my ITB a little more.

After running at 180spm for a week, my miles are averaging around 8:30
on about a 3-5 mile run. Now, I'm not complaining. I feel like I'm
running better and smarter than I ever have. However, my pace has
definitely lessened - by a little over a minute per mile. For some
reason, I figured if my cadence increased that my mile time would
magically decrease. I was wrong. It seems my stride length has
lessened more than my increased cadence can compensate for.

To lower my mileage times at 180spm, I figure I need to work on
increasing my stride length. So my question is, how does someone do
that? Increasing cadence was easy. But I'm finding increasing my
stride difficult without "lunging" which seems dangerous to me.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

To "increase stride length", just run faster. Push the pace. Pick it up.
Your stride length automatically increases as a result. You don't want to
consciously lengthen your stride.

Having said that -- you shouldn't be trying to run every training run like
a race. Add about 1:30 minutes per mile to the fastest you can possibly run
a 3 mile training run, and that's about the pace you should use for most of
your training runs.

Don't expect instant results. Aerobic fitness takes time. Enter a race every
month or so to test yourself. You should expect to see some variation, but
there should also be a steady, clear pattern of progress in your race results.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

I have some ideas about how to increase your length. Send me a
private note and I'll explain.

Jack

noname said:

Hello,

This is my first post to this newsgroup. But I've been a regular reader
for quite awhile now. Great stuff.

I'm a regular runner. Now running four days a week minimum. Usually
10-20 miles per week. Based on information in this group and elsewhere,
I've upped my cadence to 180spm. This has been great for me. My form
has improved, and I can actually run farther expending less energy --
although it does tend to irritate my ITB a little more.

After running at 180spm for a week, my miles are averaging around 8:30
on about a 3-5 mile run. Now, I'm not complaining. I feel like I'm
running better and smarter than I ever have. However, my pace has
definitely lessened - by a little over a minute per mile. For some
reason, I figured if my cadence increased that my mile time would
magically decrease. I was wrong. It seems my stride length has
lessened more than my increased cadence can compensate for.

To lower my mileage times at 180spm, I figure I need to work on
increasing my stride length. So my question is, how does someone do
that? Increasing cadence was easy. But I'm finding increasing my
stride difficult without "lunging" which seems dangerous to me.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

Rick

"Lumber Jack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have some ideas about how to increase your length. Send me a
private note and I'll explain.

Yo Jack, why not post them here for all to see.

-DF

Quoted message said:

Yo Jack, why not post them here for all to see.

Because it involves stretching his middle leg.

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Freese

Quoted message said:

"Lumber Jack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have some ideas about how to increase your length. Send me a
private note and I'll explain.

Yo Jack, why not post them here for all to see.

-DF

Jack,

Are your ideas proprietary or are you writing a book? Like Doug, I'd
like to hear your explanations.

Ozzie

Noname,

Here are some of my thoughts.

To increase stride length you can do a Danny Dreyer
(www.chirunning.com) exercise.

Stand about a foot away from a wall or wall like surface. From the
ankle fall forward keeping your body straight, i.e. don't bend in the
lower back or don't hunch forward.

Your hands about shoulder height and slightly in front of you catch you
and you push yourself back up. Do it several time until your body is
relaxed and without tension as you push yourself back after falling
forward from the ankle a few inches and catching yourself. The idea is
to get the feeling of the falling forward from the ankles.

Maintaining the same cadence, it is the leaning forward a quarter of an
inch or more from the ankle that creates the stride length. Danny's
image is that your body as it leans ever so slightly from the ankle is
the accelerator pedal. Read the post Cadence: A dialogue with
Donovan, Doug & Bob.

The stride length is created by your body falling faster and you having
to bring your foot through faster so that you gracefully catch
yourself with each step. If you don't allow your lower leg to tuck
behind the thigh higher and higher as you go faster and faster, there
may be a tendency for the lower leg to pendulum forward which can
create the landing on the back of the heel of the shoe and
decelerating.

With the lean from the ankle, the movement of the foot, lower leg,
thigh is more of the motion that you would see of a skateboarder
pushing off from the ground and bringing his/her foot/leg forward to do
a sequential set of push offs. It's an eliptical movement of the lower
leg and a pendulum swing of the knee backward and the forward.

I know TBR is probably going to make a smart ass remark, but here's
some advice that has worked for us. I didn't write it, but I do try
to use it.

Two primary factors in stride length include foot plant (should be
approximately under the hips) and strength (how hard can the athlete
push off).

For working on form, and in addition to easy distance running for
conditioning, I suggest lots of skipping and strides. These really
work the ankles, knees and hips, the keys to running.

We want to develop excellent strength and range of motion. Three
varieties of skipping are regular skipping, skipping for height and
skipping for distance. These drills can be very fun and must be done
regularly and with relaxed arm movement. When doing strides, the
faster the stride, the shorter the distance.

For example, strides at 400m pace may be 80-100 meters in length. Full
speed strides should not be more than 40 meters.

Developing strength takes time, be patient Always avoid injury...do
not do full speed strides when the athlete is tired.

Jack

Quoted message said:

I know TBR is probably going to make a smart ass remark,

Who me? Naw...

Quoted message said:

I suggest lots of skipping and strides. These really
work the ankles, knees and hips, the keys to running.

Who me? Oh yeah... Do you wear a tutu? Go bare-ass? Where and when? I just
really have to see this. My suggestions about doing figure 8's and running
backwards were gay enough, but you've really surpassed all my expectations,
hopes, and dreams with that post.
Thank you dude.

Quoted message said:

From: Lumber Jack

Oh and even better, he's a lumberjack?
Everyone sing along: "Ohhhhh he's a lumberjack and he's ok..."

In article <[email hidden]>, Lumber Jack

Quoted message said:

Two primary factors in stride length include foot plant (should be
approximately under the hips) and strength (how hard can the athlete
push off).

Jack,

I like and agree with the idea of skipping. Actually, skipping is an
antidote for depression also.

Regarding the foot plant, I look at it as the hips stay over the
planted foot.

Regarding the "push off" it's my belief and experience that the push
off is not to propel the body forward as much as it it to propel the
lower leg forward once it is tucked in behind the thigh.

For me the image is that I'm falling so fast that my body is pulling
the push off foot off the ground.

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

noname said:

Hello,

This is my first post to this newsgroup. But I've been a regular reader
for quite awhile now. Great stuff.

I'm a regular runner. Now running four days a week minimum. Usually
10-20 miles per week. Based on information in this group and elsewhere,
I've upped my cadence to 180spm. This has been great for me. My form
has improved, and I can actually run farther expending less energy --
although it does tend to irritate my ITB a little more.

After running at 180spm for a week, my miles are averaging around 8:30
on about a 3-5 mile run. Now, I'm not complaining. I feel like I'm
running better and smarter than I ever have. However, my pace has
definitely lessened - by a little over a minute per mile. For some
reason, I figured if my cadence increased that my mile time would
magically decrease. I was wrong. It seems my stride length has
lessened more than my increased cadence can compensate for.

To lower my mileage times at 180spm, I figure I need to work on
increasing my stride length. So my question is, how does someone do
that? Increasing cadence was easy. But I'm finding increasing my
stride difficult without "lunging" which seems dangerous to me.

Find a nice hill about 1/4 mile long and do repeats, should improve the
drive off your back foot which is where your increased stride should come
from. Also do butt kicks as part of your warm-up as when running you want
your foot to come through close to your butt to reduce the 'pendulum'
effect. Some plyometrics once a week wouldn't come amiss either.

Phil.

Quoted message said:

Actually, skipping is an
antidote for depression also.

Of course it is, it makes you gay. The bouncing and gravitational forces at
work on on your boyz makes you go gay. Proven scientific fact.

Thanks for the extra info, Ozzie. I looked at your website. You do
great work. Keep it up!

Jack

Ozzie Gontang said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Lumber Jack

Quoted message said:

Two primary factors in stride length include foot plant (should be
approximately under the hips) and strength (how hard can the athlete
push off).

Jack,

I like and agree with the idea of skipping. Actually, skipping is an
antidote for depression also.

Regarding the foot plant, I look at it as the hips stay over the
planted foot.

Regarding the "push off" it's my belief and experience that the push
off is not to propel the body forward as much as it it to propel the
lower leg forward once it is tucked in behind the thigh.

For me the image is that I'm falling so fast that my body is pulling
the push off foot off the ground.

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

At least I'm happy. You don't appear to be very happy, Bill. How can
we make you happy?

Jack

On 04 Sep 2004 23:44:56 GMT, [email hidden] (TheBillRodgerz)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually, skipping is an
antidote for depression also.

Of course it is, it makes you gay. The bouncing and gravitational forces at
work on on your boyz makes you go gay. Proven scientific fact.

Quoted message said:

At least I'm happy.

No, you're gay.

Quoted message said:

You don't appear to be very happy, Bill. How can
we make you happy?

Give me a BJ.

"Lumber Jack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know TBR is probably going to make a smart ass remark, but here's
some advice that has worked for us.

Just ignore the mental midget. The 1% of value from 99% grammar school
bad boy act is not worth the time.

Quoted message said:

Two primary factors in stride length include foot plant (should be
approximately under the hips) and strength (how hard can the athlete
push off).

Let's just say two, primary is up for grabs. The more one looks into
proper form the more we find the jury is still out. Just drop form into
the query on http://www.pponline.co.uk/ and have a nice long read. from
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0122.htm which is just one of many are a
few points to ponder:

"Is there really such a thing as 'good running form'? Coaches preach
relentlessly about proper form, and runners classify other competitors
as having 'good' or 'bad' mechanics, yet scientific research has shown
that first-class form is an extremely elusive quality."

"In fact, investigations reveal that when you give a runner a 'form
make-over' which forces the runner to learn and utilise the kinetic
patterns which most experts consider optimal, you often make that runner
worse, not better. Testifying to the fact that our understanding of the
biomechanics of running is still in its infancy and that coaches' form
sermons have a theoretical rather than factual basis, runners with
'improved form' often run more uneconomically than they did before they
changed their mechanics, eg, they need more - not less - oxygen and
energy to run at a particular pace."

Quoted message said:

For working on form, and in addition to easy distance running for
conditioning, I suggest lots of skipping and strides. These really
work the ankles, knees and hips, the keys to running.

You might wnat to review bounding and plyometrics just to name a few
others.

Quoted message said:

Developing strength takes time, be patient Always avoid injury

Too easy to say avoid injury but combine the type A runner with some
alleged changes that will make him/her faster and you might best call
the othopedist. They will do too much too soon. Any modifucations to
your natural running form will cause a shift in muscle yse. I'm not
saying that you should not address form changes, only they need to done
very so slowly.

-DougF

Would that really make you happy? Maybe temporarily. What makes for
lasting happiness in your life, man?

Jack

On 05 Sep 2004 07:40:15 GMT, [email hidden] (TheBillRodgerz)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

At least I'm happy.

No, you're gay.

Quoted message said:

You don't appear to be very happy, Bill. How can
we make you happy?

Give me a BJ.

Doug - interesting points. Thanks for sharing, man.

Jack

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:35:56 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Lumber Jack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know TBR is probably going to make a smart ass remark, but here's
some advice that has worked for us.

Just ignore the mental midget. The 1% of value from 99% grammar school
bad boy act is not worth the time.

Quoted message said:

Two primary factors in stride length include foot plant (should be
approximately under the hips) and strength (how hard can the athlete
push off).

Let's just say two, primary is up for grabs. The more one looks into
proper form the more we find the jury is still out. Just drop form into
the query on http://www.pponline.co.uk/ and have a nice long read. from
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0122.htm which is just one of many are a
few points to ponder:

"Is there really such a thing as 'good running form'? Coaches preach
relentlessly about proper form, and runners classify other competitors
as having 'good' or 'bad' mechanics, yet scientific research has shown
that first-class form is an extremely elusive quality."

"In fact, investigations reveal that when you give a runner a 'form
make-over' which forces the runner to learn and utilise the kinetic
patterns which most experts consider optimal, you often make that runner
worse, not better. Testifying to the fact that our understanding of the
biomechanics of running is still in its infancy and that coaches' form
sermons have a theoretical rather than factual basis, runners with
'improved form' often run more uneconomically than they did before they
changed their mechanics, eg, they need more - not less - oxygen and
energy to run at a particular pace."

Quoted message said:

For working on form, and in addition to easy distance running for
conditioning, I suggest lots of skipping and strides. These really
work the ankles, knees and hips, the keys to running.

You might wnat to review bounding and plyometrics just to name a few
others.

Quoted message said:

Developing strength takes time, be patient Always avoid injury

Too easy to say avoid injury but combine the type A runner with some
alleged changes that will make him/her faster and you might best call
the othopedist. They will do too much too soon. Any modifucations to
your natural running form will cause a shift in muscle yse. I'm not
saying that you should not address form changes, only they need to done
very so slowly.

-DougF

Quoted message said:

Just ignore the mental midget.

He must want something from me, he's never this nice...

Quoted message said:

The 1% of value from 99% grammar school
bad boy act is not worth the time.

Ignore him, he's just mad because I said he was considering heterosexuality,
and it got him in trouble with his BF.