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Running Lightly

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
20 August 2004
Last activity
25 August 2004
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Dadathome
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  1. Since I've been reading this group I've begun taking note of my and
    other's running style and form. I was sitting in traffic a few minutes
    ago and a young (high school or college age) runner ran past.
    Fascinating to watch her stride. She appeared to have springs under the
    balls of her feet - it looked as if she made first contact on the ball
    of her foot and then her heel would just barely touch down before she
    was launching off from the ball area again. She didn't appear to have
    any wasted movement or bounce to her gait - very fluid looking.

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

  2. Dadathome said:

    Since I've been reading this group I've begun taking note of my and
    other's running style and form. I was sitting in traffic a few minutes
    ago and a young (high school or college age) runner ran past.
    Fascinating to watch her stride. She appeared to have springs under the
    balls of her feet - it looked as if she made first contact on the ball
    of her foot and then her heel would just barely touch down before she
    was launching off from the ball area again.

    So she was a "front striker". I always thought this type of running was
    better suited for runners who focus on speed.

    Quoted message said:

    She didn't appear to have
    any wasted movement or bounce to her gait - very fluid looking.

    It looks the same for most runners who are lightweight, and also they
    don't make any noise when their feet land on the ground. If it weren't
    for their breath, you wouldn't hear them coming from behind you.

    Sometimes I feel very light and feel that my feet are doing exactly
    that, but other times, when I'm tired, I just let my feet loudly slap
    the ground.

    Quoted message said:

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

    Introduce your wife to running !

    --
    luc wastiaux

  3. Good job tinkerbell!

    TRRABR

    On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:14:49 -0700, Dadathome <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Since I've been reading this group I've begun taking note of my and
    other's running style and form. I was sitting in traffic a few minutes
    ago and a young (high school or college age) runner ran past.
    Fascinating to watch her stride. She appeared to have springs under the
    balls of her feet - it looked as if she made first contact on the ball
    of her foot and then her heel would just barely touch down before she
    was launching off from the ball area again. She didn't appear to have
    any wasted movement or bounce to her gait - very fluid looking.

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    luc wastiaux said:

    So she was a "front striker". I always thought this type of running was
    better suited for runners who focus on speed.

    She didn't seem to be covering the distance as I watched with any
    appearance of speed - just a normal looking pace - but maybe my
    perspective was from a skewed vantage point as I wasn't plodding
    alongside trying to keep up.

  5. Quoted message said:

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

    You're a pervert. Seek counseling, or being a registered sex offender is in
    your future.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TheBillRodgerz) said:

    You're a pervert. Seek counseling, or being a registered sex offender is in
    your future.

    Sorry to say, a little pervetedness just can't be helped... living in a
    college town and all. BTW, which one's your daughter?

  7. Takes one to know one.

    TGRRABR

    On 21 Aug 2004 02:31:33 GMT, [email hidden] (TheBillRodgerz)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

    You're a pervert. Seek counseling, or being a registered sex offender is in
    your future.

  8. Quoted message said:

    Sorry to say, a little pervetedness just can't be helped... living in a
    college town

    Ahh me too, I completely understand. I was ok until bell bottoms came back into
    fashion, suddenly teeny boppers gave me a boner.

    Quoted message said:

    and all. BTW, which one's your daughter?

    All of them, I've been a very busy fellow.

  9. In article said:

    Since I've been reading this group I've begun taking note of my and
    other's running style and form. I was sitting in traffic a few minutes
    ago and a young (high school or college age) runner ran past.
    Fascinating to watch her stride. She appeared to have springs under the
    balls of her feet - it looked as if she made first contact on the ball
    of her foot and then her heel would just barely touch down before she
    was launching off from the ball area again. She didn't appear to have
    any wasted movement or bounce to her gait - very fluid looking.

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

    You are learning what many of us here at rec.running have been sharing for years. Look up 180 steps/minute. Google groups: rec.running then search Drills for turnover/cadence. Google rec.running: Cadence "Robert Grumbine" You'll find a nice thread about what you can do to begin to run as lightly as the young woman you saw running.

    Here's something I wrote about what you observed:

    How To Run Lightly And Quickly Over Terra Firma

    The balls of your feet may be sore from being slapped. If you are landing on
    the back of the heel of the shoe it can cause a trigger effect that slaps
    the ball of your feet down...the faster you run the faster and harder the
    slap of the ball of the foot against the ground. In this article you may be
    able to find some folklore to help run lightly, quickly and quietly.

    Running Quietly & Lightly Over Terra Firma: A Response to Jessica's SLAP
    SLAP
    c. 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

    Those of you who were avid fans of Kung Fu remember David Carridine as a
    young Shaolin monk having to walk across the rice paper without tearing it.
    When he could do that then he would be able to leave the monastery, as he
    would have learned the lessons he needed.

    Those of you who have watched the Discovery Channel and various series on
    predators will note that all the predators are very light of foot and their
    prey is even lighter of foot. Even watching the charging of a bull elephant
    one realizes that the elephant for all its weight runs lightly over the
    terrain upon which it charges the camera. Rhino, water buffalo, horses,
    lions, cheetahs, Olympic 5K and 10K runners move over the surface of the
    earth.

    What that means in the kineseology of running is that there is very little
    vertical displacement (up and down movement) in running. In weight lifting
    there is very little if any horizontal displacement (forward or backward
    movement). Any movement other than movement in the plane in which you are
    moving is detrimental.

    Simply put, you are running and you weight 150 pounds. Every step you lift
    yourself vertically 1/2 inch more than necessary while running forward. This
    would mean that every 24 steps you have lifted yourself 150 foot-pounds.
    That is, you have lifted your 150 pounds one foot and gotten no energy
    benefit in the direction in which you want to move. Along the horizontal.
    You've just lifted yourself up one foot and wasted valuable energy. While if
    you could get rid of that extra 1/2 inch vertical displacement that energy
    could be used or saved in helping you run in the direction you intend. Along
    the horizontal

    Then add to that a toeing out (\ /) of the each foot 20 degrees which means
    a lost of distance on each stride to the tune of:

    Size 9 loses 18 yards per mile or 471.6 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 10 loses 20 yards per mile or 524.0 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 11 loses 22 yards per mile or 576.4 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 12 loses 24 yards per mile or 628.8 yards lost/ marathon

    The slap of most runners' feet is due to the overstride. This means the
    planted foot is landing in front of the runner's center of gravity. The slap
    comes when the foot strike hits so that the runner lands on the back of the
    heel "of the shoe." It creates what is similar to the snap bar of a mouse
    trap. It effects the front of the foot as it slaps down on its unaware
    victim...the earth's surface. The only problem is that the helpless
    victim-the earth-sends the shockwaves back up the foot as the leg compresses
    and is jarred as it hits the unforgiving earth.

    Again from the martial arts Bruce Lee's inch punch can hit a tissue in front
    of a vase or a piece of tile with the tissue just touching either. With the
    punch the vase or tile shatters and the tissue remain untorn. Bruce or the
    martial artist's fist hits the surface of the tissue with such force but
    stops at the surface of the tissue touching the object.

    The runner with good form and style touches the surface of the earth but
    does not allow the entire weight of the body to collapse upon the foot. The
    center of gravity is already over the foot as it lands. When the ball/heel
    or midsole plant takes place the foot touches down for however short the
    millisecond. The difference is that the bottom of the foot neither slides
    back nor slides forward and is the point from which the body is launched
    forward. As soon as the launch of the upper body takes place from that
    unmoved spot, the momentum of the lead leg and body going forward pulls the
    plant foot off the ground.

    Two techniques I've used to teach the quick touch down of the foot without
    allowing the full weight of the body to follow the vertical displacement:

    1. Imagine you're running on a hot grill, yelling "Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah with each
    step. You're so interested in not getting burned, you don't think about
    putting your feet down...gravity does that. You are worried about picking
    them up as quickly as possible to keep them from getting burned on the
    grill.... or Tucson summer hot pavement.

    2. Stand with one knee up and get ready to pop a Styrofoam cup with the foot
    of the lifted knee. As your foot goes down to pop the cup, instantly lift up
    the leg upon which you've been standing on. If you can lift it up as fast as
    the other leg is going down to pop the cup, you will have counterbalanced
    the cup popping foot. The foot lands and pops the cup but the leg you were
    standing on by going up as rapidly as the cup popping foot was going down
    allowed your center of gravity to have minimal movement. You popped the cup
    but your foot stopped at the surface of the earth because your center of
    gravity had minimal vertical displacement on the cup popping foot.

    3. When you see a cyclist coming toward you seated on his/her bicycle, you
    notice that the knees and lower leg are going up and down. It is only when
    it passes you from the side, do you realize that the foot is scribing
    circles as it pedals. Now Tom Miller from Utah had people train for 10K's by
    riding on stationary bicycles while standing up. Notice that you can peddle
    you stationary bicycle standing up and notice that your body can be held
    such that it doesn't go up and down. You may now be getting a little sense
    of what I've been teaching so that I can get average runner to become
    stealth runners.

    They never hit the ground. Their foot touches the ground and the falling
    body along the horizontal allows for minimal vertical movement. Therefore no
    slapping.

    Loud running is unhealthy for the human body and can cause severe damage not
    only to the body but the mind and spirit as well.

    Running is falling and catching yourself. You can do it clumsily or
    gracefully. Go for the grace!

    Again for those who want one of the books I've used to make sense out of
    what good form and style (e.g. Chapter. 5 The Mechanics of Correct Running
    Form. pp. 51-53 )are in running:
    Send $15 to Int'l Assoc. Of Marathoners for John Jesse's
    "Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention and Correction
    for Running Athletes and Joggers, © 1977
    To: IAM-attn Ozzie
    2903 29th Street
    San Diego, CA 92104-4912

  10. You put the ick in pathetic, you letch.

  11. So all these rhinos. elephants, buffalo manage to run correctly but only
    humans need to read books and news postings.
    ..
    In article <[email hidden]>, Ozzie Gontang
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dadathome said:

    Since I've been reading this group I've begun taking note of my and
    other's running style and form. I was sitting in traffic a few minutes
    ago and a young (high school or college age) runner ran past.
    Fascinating to watch her stride. She appeared to have springs under the
    balls of her feet - it looked as if she made first contact on the ball
    of her foot and then her heel would just barely touch down before she
    was launching off from the ball area again. She didn't appear to have
    any wasted movement or bounce to her gait - very fluid looking.

    Just had to tell someone... the wife wouldn't have any interest in
    running form and would likely chide me for watching a young woman
    running... not that that wasn't enjoyed as well... I'm not dead yet!

    You are learning what many of us here at rec.running have been sharing
    for years. Look up 180 steps/minute. Google groups: rec.running
    then search Drills for turnover/cadence. Google rec.running: Cadence
    "Robert Grumbine" You'll find a nice thread about what you can do to
    begin to run as lightly as the young woman you saw running.

    Here's something I wrote about what you observed:

    How To Run Lightly And Quickly Over Terra Firma

    The balls of your feet may be sore from being slapped. If you are landing on
    the back of the heel of the shoe it can cause a trigger effect that slaps
    the ball of your feet down...the faster you run the faster and harder the
    slap of the ball of the foot against the ground. In this article you may be
    able to find some folklore to help run lightly, quickly and quietly.

    Running Quietly & Lightly Over Terra Firma: A Response to Jessica's SLAP
    SLAP
    c. 2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

    Those of you who were avid fans of Kung Fu remember David Carridine as a
    young Shaolin monk having to walk across the rice paper without tearing it.
    When he could do that then he would be able to leave the monastery, as he
    would have learned the lessons he needed.

    Those of you who have watched the Discovery Channel and various series on
    predators will note that all the predators are very light of foot and their
    prey is even lighter of foot. Even watching the charging of a bull elephant
    one realizes that the elephant for all its weight runs lightly over the
    terrain upon which it charges the camera. Rhino, water buffalo, horses,
    lions, cheetahs, Olympic 5K and 10K runners move over the surface of the
    earth.

    What that means in the kineseology of running is that there is very little
    vertical displacement (up and down movement) in running. In weight lifting
    there is very little if any horizontal displacement (forward or backward
    movement). Any movement other than movement in the plane in which you are
    moving is detrimental.

    Simply put, you are running and you weight 150 pounds. Every step you lift
    yourself vertically 1/2 inch more than necessary while running forward. This
    would mean that every 24 steps you have lifted yourself 150 foot-pounds.
    That is, you have lifted your 150 pounds one foot and gotten no energy
    benefit in the direction in which you want to move. Along the horizontal.
    You've just lifted yourself up one foot and wasted valuable energy. While if
    you could get rid of that extra 1/2 inch vertical displacement that energy
    could be used or saved in helping you run in the direction you intend. Along
    the horizontal

    Then add to that a toeing out (\ /) of the each foot 20 degrees which means
    a lost of distance on each stride to the tune of:

    Size 9 loses 18 yards per mile or 471.6 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 10 loses 20 yards per mile or 524.0 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 11 loses 22 yards per mile or 576.4 yards lost/ marathon
    Size 12 loses 24 yards per mile or 628.8 yards lost/ marathon

    The slap of most runners' feet is due to the overstride. This means the
    planted foot is landing in front of the runner's center of gravity. The slap
    comes when the foot strike hits so that the runner lands on the back of the
    heel "of the shoe." It creates what is similar to the snap bar of a mouse
    trap. It effects the front of the foot as it slaps down on its unaware
    victim...the earth's surface. The only problem is that the helpless
    victim-the earth-sends the shockwaves back up the foot as the leg compresses
    and is jarred as it hits the unforgiving earth.

    Again from the martial arts Bruce Lee's inch punch can hit a tissue in front
    of a vase or a piece of tile with the tissue just touching either. With the
    punch the vase or tile shatters and the tissue remain untorn. Bruce or the
    martial artist's fist hits the surface of the tissue with such force but
    stops at the surface of the tissue touching the object.

    The runner with good form and style touches the surface of the earth but
    does not allow the entire weight of the body to collapse upon the foot. The
    center of gravity is already over the foot as it lands. When the ball/heel
    or midsole plant takes place the foot touches down for however short the
    millisecond. The difference is that the bottom of the foot neither slides
    back nor slides forward and is the point from which the body is launched
    forward. As soon as the launch of the upper body takes place from that
    unmoved spot, the momentum of the lead leg and body going forward pulls the
    plant foot off the ground.

    Two techniques I've used to teach the quick touch down of the foot without
    allowing the full weight of the body to follow the vertical displacement:

    1. Imagine you're running on a hot grill, yelling "Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah with each
    step. You're so interested in not getting burned, you don't think about
    putting your feet down...gravity does that. You are worried about picking
    them up as quickly as possible to keep them from getting burned on the
    grill.... or Tucson summer hot pavement.

    2. Stand with one knee up and get ready to pop a Styrofoam cup with the foot
    of the lifted knee. As your foot goes down to pop the cup, instantly lift up
    the leg upon which you've been standing on. If you can lift it up as fast as
    the other leg is going down to pop the cup, you will have counterbalanced
    the cup popping foot. The foot lands and pops the cup but the leg you were
    standing on by going up as rapidly as the cup popping foot was going down
    allowed your center of gravity to have minimal movement. You popped the cup
    but your foot stopped at the surface of the earth because your center of
    gravity had minimal vertical displacement on the cup popping foot.

    3. When you see a cyclist coming toward you seated on his/her bicycle, you
    notice that the knees and lower leg are going up and down. It is only when
    it passes you from the side, do you realize that the foot is scribing
    circles as it pedals. Now Tom Miller from Utah had people train for 10K's by
    riding on stationary bicycles while standing up. Notice that you can peddle
    you stationary bicycle standing up and notice that your body can be held
    such that it doesn't go up and down. You may now be getting a little sense
    of what I've been teaching so that I can get average runner to become
    stealth runners.

    They never hit the ground. Their foot touches the ground and the falling
    body along the horizontal allows for minimal vertical movement. Therefore no
    slapping.

    Loud running is unhealthy for the human body and can cause severe damage not
    only to the body but the mind and spirit as well.

    Running is falling and catching yourself. You can do it clumsily or
    gracefully. Go for the grace!

    Again for those who want one of the books I've used to make sense out of
    what good form and style (e.g. Chapter. 5 The Mechanics of Correct Running
    Form. pp. 51-53 )are in running:
    Send $15 to Int'l Assoc. Of Marathoners for John Jesse's
    "Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention and Correction
    for Running Athletes and Joggers, © 1977
    To: IAM-attn Ozzie
    2903 29th Street
    San Diego, CA 92104-4912

    --
    Ken

  12. "Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So all these rhinos. elephants, buffalo manage to run correctly but only
    humans need to read books and news postings.
    .

    Rhinos, etc. who run poorly enough die without reproducing. People who run
    poorly can function well in society, rent golf carts rather than have (let
    alone spoil) a good walk on a Saturday morning, and reproduce just fine.
    Any selection process related to poor locomotion in humans has been shifted
    to well beyond breeding age.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>, dave d
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    "Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So all these rhinos. elephants, buffalo manage to run correctly but only
    humans need to read books and news postings.
    .

    Rhinos, etc. who run poorly enough die without reproducing. People who run
    poorly can function well in society, rent golf carts rather than have (let
    alone spoil) a good walk on a Saturday morning, and reproduce just fine.
    Any selection process related to poor locomotion in humans has been shifted
    to well beyond breeding age.


    An elephant with poor running style can function well in elephant
    society. It may not be quite so fast when chasing the female but if she
    wants to be caught she will change her pace accordingly.
    --
    Ken

  14. Ken said:

    An elephant with poor running style can function well in elephant
    society. It may not be quite so fast when chasing the female but if she
    wants to be caught she will change her pace accordingly.

    True, provided the pursuing male elephant has some other redeeming
    characteristic to compensate for his gangly running style.

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