Treadmill vs Track

Quoted message said:

I've started running in the last few months (about 3 times a week), at
varying distances between a mile and 6k, having never really ran
before in my life. I'm 24, 135-140 lbs and 5'9, with very little body
fat, but not a great deal in the way of muscle either.

Over the last few weeks I've observed that my best 1500m time so far
is 6:07, and my record in a 30 minute timeframe which I've been
allowing myself on my "distance days" is 6.36k.

My question is, that all these times are being ran on a treadmill in
my gym, as opposed to outside on a track. On the positive side for my
times, this is done without any refreshments throughout the run,

You're better off not taking refreshments over such a short distance.

Quoted message said:

and
the treadmill takes a number of seconds (certainly 15-20) to reach the
speed I've set, but how do I really know what I'm running?

Calibrate the treadmill, then take into account the effects of the reduced
wind resistance, then take into account the effects of increase in body
temperature (both from warm indoor conditions and lack of airflow). Then
take into account that it's just a training run, and not a race.

To put it another way -- you don't.

Go run a proper race instead.

Time trials on a treadmill are a waste of time.

Save running PRs for races. Most training should be at a comfortable pace
(about 10 minutes per mile or 6mph for you) Add some hills and some short
surges for variety, to reduce boredom.

Quoted message said:

Are treadmills entirely accurate?

No.

Quoted message said:

I don't want to be lagging way at the back if I enter a 5k race, which, based

Don't worry. You won't be. Based on your treadmill times, you'll be somewhere in
the middle.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Time trials on a treadmill are a waste of time.

Not if you've done the same trial a few times before and have a
firm precedent set. Obviously racing, etc is the way to go but I
have had useful feedback from top-end speedwork in a time-trial
type format on a treadmill.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON)
www.allfalldown.org
www.absolutelyaccurate.com

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've started running in the last few months (about 3 times a week), at
varying distances between a mile and 6k, having never really ran
before in my life. I'm 24, 135-140 lbs and 5'9, with very little body
fat, but not a great deal in the way of muscle either.

Over the last few weeks I've observed that my best 1500m time so far
is 6:07, and my record in a 30 minute timeframe which I've been
allowing myself on my "distance days" is 6.36k.

My question is, that all these times are being ran on a treadmill in
my gym, as opposed to outside on a track. On the positive side for my
times, this is done without any refreshments throughout the run, and
the treadmill takes a number of seconds (certainly 15-20) to reach the
speed I've set, but how do I really know what I'm running? Are
treadmills entirely accurate?

I don't want to be lagging way at the back if I enter a 5k race,
which, based on my treadmill exploits, I think I could certainly do in
an admittedly modest sub-25 mins.

I only ask this, after dubious experienced with weights machines in
the gym, which can be deceptive as to what I can really lift, which is
shown when I revert to free weights.

Punk.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I don't want to be lagging way at the back if I enter a 5k race,
which, based on my treadmill exploits, I think I could certainly do in
an admittedly modest sub-25 mins.

Believe me, you won't be lagging at the back at 25mins/5k!

I take >30 mins, & there are people behind me, sometimes quite a few,
especially in anything over 100 people.
bj

The veracity of the treadmill is something you can figure out with a bit of
work. Measure the belt, set the speed and count revolutions. You can
determine the real speed of the belt. Of course the belt probably slows a
bit when you hop on it.

A guide is to set the incline at 1 to 2% to better simulate outside running
since outside running involves air resistance not found on a treadmill where
there is no, or little, horizontal displacement.

That said many people who make the transition from TM running to the outside
world find it difficult since you have little feedback on how fast you are
going, weather plays a role, wind, etc.

I would certainly recommend getting outside and running in the real world
several times before tackling a 5K.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I've started running in the last few months (about 3 times a week), at
varying distances between a mile and 6k, having never really ran
before in my life. I'm 24, 135-140 lbs and 5'9, with very little body
fat, but not a great deal in the way of muscle either.

Over the last few weeks I've observed that my best 1500m time so far
is 6:07, and my record in a 30 minute timeframe which I've been
allowing myself on my "distance days" is 6.36k.

My question is, that all these times are being ran on a treadmill in
my gym, as opposed to outside on a track. On the positive side for my
times, this is done without any refreshments throughout the run, and
the treadmill takes a number of seconds (certainly 15-20) to reach the
speed I've set, but how do I really know what I'm running? Are
treadmills entirely accurate?

I don't want to be lagging way at the back if I enter a 5k race,
which, based on my treadmill exploits, I think I could certainly do in
an admittedly modest sub-25 mins.

I only ask this, after dubious experienced with weights machines in
the gym, which can be deceptive as to what I can really lift, which is
shown when I revert to free weights.

SwStudio said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Time trials on a treadmill are a waste of time.

Not if you've done the same trial a few times before and have a
firm precedent set. Obviously racing, etc is the way to go but I
have had useful feedback from top-end speedwork in a time-trial
type format on a treadmill.

Yes, but this is really confusing the issue. The type of "time trial"
you're talking about has very little in common with what he's doing.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've started running in the last few months (about 3 times a week), at
varying distances between a mile and 6k, having never really ran
before in my life. I'm 24, 135-140 lbs and 5'9, with very little body
fat, but not a great deal in the way of muscle either.

Over the last few weeks I've observed that my best 1500m time so far
is 6:07, and my record in a 30 minute timeframe which I've been
allowing myself on my "distance days" is 6.36k.

My question is, that all these times are being ran on a treadmill in
my gym, as opposed to outside on a track. On the positive side for my
times, this is done without any refreshments throughout the run, and
the treadmill takes a number of seconds (certainly 15-20) to reach the
speed I've set, but how do I really know what I'm running? Are
treadmills entirely accurate?

I don't want to be lagging way at the back if I enter a 5k race,
which, based on my treadmill exploits, I think I could certainly do in
an admittedly modest sub-25 mins.

Are you planning to run a 5K without ever having run outdoors first?
If so, you're making a mistake. "Real" running is harder than TM
running, particularly if your TM running is on a flat bed, i.e., no
incline. You really should train for a race under race conditions or
you're going to fare a lot worse than you think.

Quoted message said:

I only ask this, after dubious experienced with weights machines in
the gym, which can be deceptive as to what I can really lift, which is
shown when I revert to free weights.

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Are you planning to run a 5K without ever having run outdoors first?
If so, you're making a mistake. "Real" running is harder than TM
running, ...

There are often advantages to training on a treadmill. One of my
best 12k race times came after roughly a year of training only indoors
on a treadmill. Why? Because I could adjust the incline of the treadmill
to match (or be 1% greater than) the hill contour of the race course,
whereas my "Real"(tm) outdoor running is nowhere near any hill terrain.

Quoted message said:

You really should train for a race under race conditions or
you're going to fare a lot worse than you think.

And a treadmill might reproduce that better than a particular outdoor
course.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Are you planning to run a 5K without ever having run outdoors first?
If so, you're making a mistake. "Real" running is harder than TM
running, ...

There are often advantages to training on a treadmill. One of my
best 12k race times came after roughly a year of training only indoors
on a treadmill. Why? Because I could adjust the incline of the treadmill
to match (or be 1% greater than) the hill contour of the race course,
whereas my "Real"(tm) outdoor running is nowhere near any hill terrain.

Quoted message said:

You really should train for a race under race conditions or
you're going to fare a lot worse than you think.

And a treadmill might reproduce that better than a particular outdoor
course.

Running in place with no air resistance is better training for running
outdoors than running outdoors is? How?

Quoted message said:

IMHO. YMMV.

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Running in place with no air resistance is better training for running
outdoors than running outdoors is? How?

Cost and legality. It would be a multimillion dollar project to tilt any
of the roads around me to provide a significant incline for a reasonable
distance, and the roads department would look askance at me doing so
without a multiple costly permits.

But all the treadmills at the nearby health center had these handy
buttons built in. And 2% is more resistance than I can get from air
unless the wind is up.

There are also less blind drivers weaving SUV's across my path while
spewing noxious emissions near the treadmill. A dead runner usually
has very slow race times.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Running in place with no air resistance is better training for running
outdoors than running outdoors is? How?

Cost and legality. It would be a multimillion dollar project to tilt any
of the roads around me to provide a significant incline for a reasonable
distance, and the roads department would look askance at me doing so
without a multiple costly permits.

But all the treadmills at the nearby health center had these handy
buttons built in. And 2% is more resistance than I can get from air
unless the wind is up.

There are also less blind drivers weaving SUV's across my path while
spewing noxious emissions near the treadmill. A dead runner usually
has very slow race times.

IMHO. YMMV.

🙂

I'd also add that the indoor temperature and secure footing may be more
like race-day temperature and footing if your other options are subzero
F temperatures and icy roads - as in Christine Clark's case when she
used tm for part of her training in Anchorage winter for marathon trials
in South Carolina.

TM can be a legitimate aerobic conditioning tool, but they don't
simulate things like trails (footing isn't variable enough) or downhill
(most tm only have about -3% slope, if any, unless prop up the back)
running very well. But tracks don't provide those either.

On 2004-07-14, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I only ask this, after dubious experienced with weights machines in
the gym, which can be deceptive as to what I can really lift, which is
shown when I revert to free weights.

I think you may need to be sure of the tm calibration. I think the tm
that I use at the gym (1-min aerobic station, done 5 times, as part of
cross-training circuit) indicate deceptively fast times, but since I
don't run measured distances and run longer outside, I don't really
know. It certainly feels easier to me.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"John B." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Are you planning to run a 5K without ever having run outdoors first?
If so, you're making a mistake. "Real" running is harder than TM
running, ...

There are often advantages to training on a treadmill. One of my
best 12k race times came after roughly a year of training only indoors
on a treadmill. Why? Because I could adjust the incline of the

treadmill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to match (or be 1% greater than) the hill contour of the race course,
whereas my "Real"(tm) outdoor running is nowhere near any hill terrain.

Quoted message said:

You really should train for a race under race conditions or
you're going to fare a lot worse than you think.

And a treadmill might reproduce that better than a particular outdoor
course.

Running in place with no air resistance is better training for running
outdoors than running outdoors is? How?

Quoted message said:

IMHO. YMMV.

Note the key term "reproduce". Ideally all time trials, etc should be
conducted under the same conditions. That is possible on a treadmill, but
rare in the real world.

John B. said:

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John B. said:

Are you planning to run a 5K without ever having run outdoors first?
If so, you're making a mistake. "Real" running is harder than TM
running, ...

There are often advantages to training on a treadmill. One of my
best 12k race times came after roughly a year of training only indoors
on a treadmill. Why? Because I could adjust the incline of the treadmill
to match (or be 1% greater than) the hill contour of the race course,
whereas my "Real"(tm) outdoor running is nowhere near any hill terrain.

Quoted message said:

You really should train for a race under race conditions or
you're going to fare a lot worse than you think.

And a treadmill might reproduce that better than a particular outdoor
course.

Running in place with no air resistance is better training for running
outdoors than running outdoors is? How?

Ronald is absolutely correct.

In practice, one doesn't "train for a race under race conditions". The color
of the grass on the side of the road may be slightly different. The direction
of the wind may be different. Unless you run on the course itself, the twists
and turns will be different as will the altitude profile.

What is important is not duplicating race conditions, but training to produce
physiological adaptions that will help you in the race. There are some factors
that one can adapt to, such as heat. Others that some consider important may
include running on inclines (though one might note that some do quite well in
road races without much hill work) There are other factors that produce no
adaption at all, such as wind resistance. Training on different surfaces may
produce different adaptions, but IMO for shorter races at least, this is a
very weak argument. I race in flats, but never train in them, and it works
just fine. People have also succesfully made the reverse shift (barefoot to
wearing shoes)

So to summarise, you could argue that there are differences in running on the
treadmill, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that you're going to be missing
out on some important component of fitness by treadmill training.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/