Ten Speed

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

You should be removing, not adding.

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

If you're trying to use a 10-speed cassette, you'd have to use the road STI
shifters, so unless you're cyclocrossing, using STI levers sideways on a
flat bar, or using friction shifters, then you can't use the DA10-specific
cassette/shifter/rear hub. Kind of a hard combination to match up for MTB,
so it's unlikely you'd see anyone using that stuff out there.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

If you're trying to use a 10-speed cassette, you'd have to use the road

STI

Quoted message said:

shifters, so unless you're cyclocrossing, using STI levers sideways on a
flat bar, or using friction shifters, then you can't use the DA10-specific
cassette/shifter/rear hub. Kind of a hard combination to match up for

MTB,

Quoted message said:

so it's unlikely you'd see anyone using that stuff out there.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Don't downhill bikes use sora hubs?

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

As was suggested, the cassette and chain would be fine but shifters would be
a problem.
Why would you want to go 10 speed?
I'm still lamenting the change from 8 to 9 speed. A nine speed chain is 11%
narrower than an 8 speed, this gives you a lot less tolerance to things like
gunked up cables and knocked derailers that are common on MTBs. I presume a
10 speed chain is narrower again.
MTBing doesn't need fine gear control as the terrain and speed should be
varying very quickly. If you're riding mountains spread is more important
than accuracy.
It's getting harder and harder to find good parts for my 8-speed but it is
so much easier to keep running slick than my 9-speed.

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

If you're trying to use a 10-speed cassette, you'd have to use the road STI
shifters, so unless you're cyclocrossing, using STI levers sideways on a
flat bar, or using friction shifters,

Paul thumbies and DA 10sp barends.

Quoted message said:

then you can't use the DA10-specific
cassette/shifter/rear hub.

American classic 240 with a body swap from a 220 road hub. There is
also a company making a "spline shim" so that older 9sp hubs can be
used with 10sp cassettes.

Quoted message said:

Kind of a hard combination to match up for MTB,
so it's unlikely you'd see anyone using that stuff out there.

We have two cross-country guys running 10sp cassettes on MTB's, they
like the relatively close ratio 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,27T. Other
than providing closer steps ... I am not sure why someone would want
to go to the trouble.
For that matter I am not convinced that the 10sp is a big gain over
last seasons 12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27T. With the weights being
within 2 grams, and considering the modifications that had to be done,
I am not sure I see a benefit ... but they may be just slightly ahead
of the curve.

R

Quoted message said:

American classic 240 with a body swap from a 220 road hub. There is
also a company making a "spline shim" so that older 9sp hubs can be
used with 10sp cassettes.

IIRC, you can use a DA10 cassette on any 8/9sp body. I forgot to mention
the difference between the 130mm of the road hub and 135mm of a MTB hub,
although the axle can be replaced, and a spacer added on the non-drive side
and the wheel redished.

Quoted message said:

I am not sure I see a benefit ... but they may be just slightly ahead
of the curve.

MTB (which almost always has triple chainrings) does not need 3 more gear
ratios especially since people who ride in dirtier conditions need more
tolerance in shifting and braking, not less. Maybe they have long, straight
uphills?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

American classic 240 with a body swap from a 220 road hub. There is
also a company making a "spline shim" so that older 9sp hubs can be
used with 10sp cassettes.

IIRC, you can use a DA10 cassette on any 8/9sp body.

True, the reason for the boby swap was to get the lighter 220 body on
a hub designed for 135 spacing (wider flange to flange). If you take a
DA10 cassette apart you will notice a spline change for the cogs that
are not on the carrier. The spline shim fills the gaps.

Quoted message said:

I forgot to mention
the difference between the 130mm of the road hub and 135mm of a MTB hub,
although the axle can be replaced, and a spacer added on the non-drive side
and the wheel redished.

But that adds incresed dish as well as adding a length of unsuppoted
axel beyond the bearing. By using a DA hub you lose just over 3mm of
flange spacing, over a non-disc XTR and the like.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not sure I see a benefit ... but they may be just slightly ahead
of the curve.

MTB (which almost always has triple chainrings) does not need 3 more gear
ratios

That's what I said when shimano pushed 7sp on all of us. The gears
gained do not provide a higher high or lower low, but provide closer
steps in between gears. To some extent it makes sense for racers who
are concerned with keeping a constant cadence over varied terrain.
This isn't something that I am concerned with since I am no longer a
racer. My points were that 10sp is being used in MTBing, and you don't
have to use the entire DA drivetrain just to get 10sp, (cassette
chain, and shiftlevers pretty much make the system).

Quoted message said:

especially since people who ride in dirtier conditions need more
tolerance in shifting and braking, not less. Maybe they have long, straight
uphills?

It is not uncommon to see doubles on racing machines. Overend ran a
double with a 12/28 in 1991, and the major courses really haven't
changed much. Every year there are a few racers running doubles, with
the attitude that it is faster to get off and run than muddle through
in a granny. Of course that's racing and has little to do with MTBing
in general.

R

[email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Ground Control" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone attempted to or see anyone attempting to use any Shimano 10 speed
road stuff on a MTB?

If you're trying to use a 10-speed cassette, you'd have to use the road STI
shifters, so unless you're cyclocrossing, using STI levers sideways on a
flat bar, or using friction shifters,

Paul thumbies and DA 10sp barends.

<snip>

Campagnolo?

http://www.speedgoat.com/images/blog/ib04-campyFlat-B.jpg

/s

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I forgot to mention
the difference between the 130mm of the road hub and 135mm of a MTB
hub, although the axle can be replaced, and a spacer added on the
non-drive side and the wheel redished.

But that adds incresed dish as well as adding a length of unsuppoted
axel beyond the bearing. By using a DA hub you lose just over 3mm of
flange spacing, over a non-disc XTR and the like.

Actually it decreases dish. The redishing would put the rim more to the
left side of the bike if you added a spacer on the non-drive-side.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

especially since people who ride in dirtier conditions need more
tolerance in shifting and braking, not less. Maybe they have long,
straight uphills?

It is not uncommon to see doubles on racing machines. Overend ran a
double with a 12/28 in 1991, and the major courses really haven't
changed much. Every year there are a few racers running doubles, with
the attitude that it is faster to get off and run than muddle through
in a granny. Of course that's racing and has little to do with MTBing
in general.

Many racers have the legs to never need the granny in the first place,
unless it's technical. I sure need my granny...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I forgot to mention
the difference between the 130mm of the road hub and 135mm of a MTB
hub, although the axle can be replaced, and a spacer added on the
non-drive side and the wheel redished.

But that adds incresed dish as well as adding a length of unsuppoted
axel beyond the bearing. By using a DA hub you lose just over 3mm of
flange spacing, over a non-disc XTR and the like.

Actually it decreases dish. The redishing would put the rim more to the
left side of the bike if you added a spacer on the non-drive-side.

Yes, a wheel built on a 130mm hub that is redished afte adding spacers
to the left side to make the hub 135 would decrease the dish.

What I was trying to get a cross was that compared to using a hub like
an XTR or an American Classic 240, the dish should be greater and the
bracing angle smaller, particularly because the flange spacing is less
with a Da 7800 hub.

My point was that you were quite correct, in your original post, that
using a a DA 7800 hub on a MTB would be a bad idea.

R