29er frame sizing

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In article <[email hidden]>,

JoelM said:

Hello all!
I am looking to purchase an '05 Gary Fisher X-Caliber and I'm torn
between frame sizes. I'm just shy of 5'11" with an inseam of about
33.5". I cannot make up my mind as to whether to go with a 17.5"(M) or
19"(L) frame. I took a very brief testride on a 17.5" '03 model, and it
seemed to feel alright with the seatpost most of the way out- better
than the 17" Kona that I currently ride. I've also done my homework for
the most part, and come to find out that Fisher has increased the
standover on their hardtail 29ers by about an inch for the '05 models.
So as where I probably had 4 or 5 of standover clearance on the medium
'03, I would assume that i would have 3 or 4 inches on the '05 model.
Bump that up to a large for the '05 model and thats about 2-3 inches of
clearance. Maybe less if I eyeballed the clearance wrong to begin with.
I'm leaning towards the medium, but I desperately do not want to make
the wrong decision, since I will definitely not be able to exchange the
bike for the other size.
Which size would you guys go with? (especially helpful if you're around
my measurements!!!)

_ Look at the "effective top tube" or cockpit length
measurements and compare them to a bike you're comfortable
with. Seat height is easy to fix, but if the top tube is
too long or short you're screwed...

_ Booker C. Bense

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Yeah, check top tube as Booker suggested. Seat and stem can account for
minor variations, but will change the balance of the bike slightly if you
overcompensate.

Sizing depends somewhat on the style of riding you do too. Some folks who
do really techie riding prefer a smaller frame for a more nimble feel. I'm
a little shorter than you and used to ride a 18" Kona hardtail. Both it and
my current ride have a 23" top tube, which I find comfy for my riding style.
A little stretched for right twisty stuff maybe, but I feel like the length
gives me a bit more leverage for climbing.

My advice is purely subjective, no doubt more knowledgable riders here can
give you concrete details to help you make your decision.

Luck
Gary

"JoelM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all!
I am looking to purchase an '05 Gary Fisher X-Caliber and I'm torn
between frame sizes. I'm just shy of 5'11" with an inseam of about
33.5". I cannot make up my mind as to whether to go with a 17.5"(M) or
19"(L) frame. I took a very brief testride on a 17.5" '03 model, and it
seemed to feel alright with the seatpost most of the way out- better
than the 17" Kona that I currently ride. I've also done my homework for
the most part, and come to find out that Fisher has increased the
standover on their hardtail 29ers by about an inch for the '05 models.
So as where I probably had 4 or 5 of standover clearance on the medium
'03, I would assume that i would have 3 or 4 inches on the '05 model.
Bump that up to a large for the '05 model and thats about 2-3 inches of
clearance. Maybe less if I eyeballed the clearance wrong to begin with.
I'm leaning towards the medium, but I desperately do not want to make
the wrong decision, since I will definitely not be able to exchange the
bike for the other size.
Which size would you guys go with? (especially helpful if you're around
my measurements!!!)
-Joel

--
JoelM

JoelM said:

I am looking to purchase an '05 Gary Fisher X-Caliber and I'm torn
between frame sizes. I'm just shy of 5'11" with an inseam of about
33.5". I cannot make up my mind as to whether to go with a 17.5"(M) or
19"(L) frame.

Joel

The Fisher frames have wacky-long top tubes. I rode a Supercal29
in size L for 6 months earlier this year. I'm 6'1" and have almost
your same inseam (be sure you're using the cycling method, where
you measure from a book or other narrow object jammed up into
your naughty area). Even if you used the clothing measurement
of inseam, you have legs approx. as long as mine, which means
your torso is probably shorter. Do you have uncommonly long arms?

The geometry of all the Fisher bigwheel hardtails is the same.
The effective top tube on the L is 24.7". The ETT on the M is 24".

My Moots had a 24.25" ETT and the Fisher of course was 24.7".
When I had my custom built, I asked for a 24.45" ETT. I liked
having a shorter stem with the Fisher than I ran on the Moots,
but even with a 100mm stem, the Fisher L was just a hair too
long for me. I'm now running my custom with a 100mm stem, and
the fit for me is spot on.

It's unfortunate that the ETT jumps as radically as it does
between M and L, but I really think the L will be too big for
you. My L Supercal29 barely fit me, and I'm just a touch taller
than you, and it sounds like the difference is all in the torso.

Good luck.
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

quote='Tom Purvis'JoelM said:

I am looking to purchase an '05 Gary Fisher X-Caliber and I'm torn
between frame sizes. I'm just shy of 5'11" with an inseam of about
33.5". I cannot make up my mind as to whether to go with a 17.5"(M) or
19"(L) frame.

Joel

The Fisher frames have wacky-long top tubes. I rode a Supercal29
in size L for 6 months earlier this year. I'm 6'1" and have almost
your same inseam (be sure you're using the cycling method, where
you measure from a book or other narrow object jammed up into
your naughty area). Even if you used the clothing measurement
of inseam, you have legs approx. as long as mine, which means
your torso is probably shorter. Do you have uncommonly long arms?

The geometry of all the Fisher bigwheel hardtails is the same.
The effective top tube on the L is 24.7". The ETT on the M is 24".

My Moots had a 24.25" ETT and the Fisher of course was 24.7".
When I had my custom built, I asked for a 24.45" ETT. I liked
having a shorter stem with the Fisher than I ran on the Moots,
but even with a 100mm stem, the Fisher L was just a hair too
long for me. I'm now running my custom with a 100mm stem, and
the fit for me is spot on.

It's unfortunate that the ETT jumps as radically as it does
between M and L, but I really think the L will be too big for
you. My L Supercal29 barely fit me, and I'm just a touch taller
than you, and it sounds like the difference is all in the torso.

Good luck.
--
Tom Purvis - arkansasvalley.nettpurvisOpen ↗
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell[/QUOTE]
I don't think my arms are particularly long... my armspan is 73-74" fingertip to fingertip, so a 3 to 4 inch ape index.
However, it sounds like the 17.5" frame is my best bet. I'm going to go to the other bike shop in town that carries Fishers, but even if they don't have one for me to try, I'll probably just buy it sight unseen.
Thanks very much for your help everyone, especially yours, Tom. This is my first nice bike, so its especially nerve-wracking to come to a decision (the wierd geometry of Fisher's bikes compounded by the wierd geometry of 29ers in general doesnt help either!)

BTW Tom, you said you rode a Supercaliber for awhile. Fisher offered the supercaliber frame with the xcaliber components in 03 and 04; for 05 they seem to have stopped offering the supercal frame, but I was just curious: what is the difference between an x-caliber frame and a supercaliber frame? I looked around on the dealer site and did a web search for it, but couldnt find the difference between the two anywhere.

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In article <[email hidden]>,

JoelM said:

BTW Tom, you said you rode a Supercaliber for awhile. Fisher offered
the supercaliber frame with the xcaliber components in 03 and 04; for
05 they seem to have stopped offering the supercal frame, but I was
just curious: what is the difference between an x-caliber frame and a
supercaliber frame? I looked around on the dealer site and did a web
search for it, but couldnt find the difference between the two
anywhere.

_ I don't think there is any. Or at least I couldn't find any
anywhere either. I'm just guessing, but everything I've read
suggests to me that they just make one 29'er hardtail frame.
Although some have disk brake mounts and some don't.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Take a looksy here: fisherbikes.combike detail.aspOpen ↗
It says, "also available as supercaliber 29 frame." Maybe they were selling it as a frameset? I dunno.
As for there being just one 29er frame, I think thats true as far as straight mountain bikes go. The Gary Fisher Rig is made out of a cheaper alloy, I believe, but the geometry is the same across the board. The hybrid 29ers have a different shaped frame than do the mountain bikes, though. Then there's the sugar bikes, but that goes without saying.

Booker C. Bense said:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

JoelM said:

BTW Tom, you said you rode a Supercaliber for awhile. Fisher offered
the supercaliber frame with the xcaliber components in 03 and 04; for
05 they seem to have stopped offering the supercal frame, but I was
just curious: what is the difference between an x-caliber frame and a
supercaliber frame? I looked around on the dealer site and did a web
search for it, but couldnt find the difference between the two
anywhere.

_ I don't think there is any. Or at least I couldn't find any
anywhere either. I'm just guessing, but everything I've read
suggests to me that they just make one 29'er hardtail frame.
Although some have disk brake mounts and some don't.

_ Booker C. Bense

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JoelM said:

Tom Purvis said:

The Fisher frames have wacky-long top tubes. I rode a Supercal29
in size L for 6 months earlier this year. I'm 6'1" and have almost
your same inseam (be sure you're using the cycling method, [clip]

The geometry of all the Fisher bigwheel hardtails is the same.
The effective top tube on the L is 24.7". The ETT on the M is 24".

I don't think my arms are particularly long... my armspan is 73-74"
fingertip to fingertip, so a 3 to 4 inch ape index.
However, it sounds like the 17.5" frame is my best bet. I'm going to go
to the other bike shop in town that carries Fishers, but even if they
don't have one for me to try, I'll probably just buy it sight unseen.

Joel, by any chance do you like the fit of your current bike?
If so you can measure the effective top tube (lots of advice
on the 'net about how to do that) and then take into account
the stem length. That'll give you some idea of how the new
ride might differ from your old one.

Quoted message said:

Fisher offered the supercaliber frame
with the xcaliber components in 03 and 04; for
05 they seem to have stopped offering the supercal frame, but I was
just curious: what is the difference between an x-caliber frame and a
supercaliber frame?

Paint.

Oh, and what size seatpost it takes. All the pre-05 hardtail frames
had 31.6mm seatposts, now they all have the popular 27.2mm

It's a good frame, for a beer can bike (shameless steel bigot).

And I should say, my statement that all the Fisher hardtail frames are
the same is not quite right. The new '05 Montare looks identical from a
geometry standpoint to the "Genesis Hardtail" Fisher 29ers, but the
chainstay-bottom bracket interface isn't the same, and subsequently
tire clearance is not nearly as good. Also the fork that comes on the
Montare is questionable for real offroad. I don't know how similar the
Montare is to the "Dual Sport" 29ers from Fisher last year. I never
saw any of those bikes.

Hope you enjoy the bike. I could go back to a Fisher hardtail if I
had to. A little stiffer than I like, and the geometry is a little
extreme, but it's a fun bike to ride.
--
Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell

JoelM said:

Hello all!
I am looking to purchase an '05 Gary Fisher X-Caliber and I'm torn
between frame sizes. I'm just shy of 5'11" with an inseam of about
33.5". I cannot make up my mind as to whether to go with a 17.5"(M) or
19"(L) frame. I took a very brief testride on a 17.5" '03 model, and it
seemed to feel alright with the seatpost most of the way out- better
than the 17" Kona that I currently ride. I've also done my homework for
the most part, and come to find out that Fisher has increased the
standover on their hardtail 29ers by about an inch for the '05 models.
So as where I probably had 4 or 5 of standover clearance on the medium
'03, I would assume that i would have 3 or 4 inches on the '05 model.
Bump that up to a large for the '05 model and thats about 2-3 inches of
clearance. Maybe less if I eyeballed the clearance wrong to begin with.
I'm leaning towards the medium, but I desperately do not want to make
the wrong decision, since I will definitely not be able to exchange the
bike for the other size.

I'm almost the same size as you, maybe an inch taller (or less).

even though I don't ride a 29, I would say stick with the size you're
used to, the additional standover on the large model doesn't seem like
it's any reason to go up that much in size. granted you're probably a
little bit in-between (like me), but since you yourself said the medium
frame feels even better than your current bike, seems like it should
work out nicely.

bri

As a matter of fact, I really don't care much for the bike that I'm riding now. Its a Kona Cinder Cone (actually my girlfriend's hand-me-down from her father) and I can't really put my finger on what it is that I dont like about it, but I just don't like it. The big fat cruiser saddle doesn't help much, but beyond that something just doesn't work for me on the bike. The Fishers that I've test rode felt a lot better. I haven't had enough MTB experience to pinpoint what I do and do not like, but the geometry of the couple of 29ers that I tried just felt good. I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm going to go with the medium framesize. There are plenty of people 3 or 4 inches taller than me riding 17" frames, so I'm fairly confident that the 17.5" will suit me fine.
Speaking of the dual sports, I was going to get the 229 (i think it was called) before the '05s came out. I'm glad I changed my mind. Theyre by no means bad bikes- theyre ok for different sorts of things but they don't really do any one thing well. If I planned on sticking strictly to road and maybe really tame trails I might have gone with a dual sport or this year's Montare, but I'd rather have something that can take a good deal of abuse if I'm in the mood. I think the x-caliber is spot on for that.

quote='Tom Purvis'JoelM said:

Tom Purvis said:

The Fisher frames have wacky-long top tubes. I rode a Supercal29
in size L for 6 months earlier this year. I'm 6'1" and have almost
your same inseam (be sure you're using the cycling method, [clip]

The geometry of all the Fisher bigwheel hardtails is the same.
The effective top tube on the L is 24.7". The ETT on the M is 24".

I don't think my arms are particularly long... my armspan is 73-74"
fingertip to fingertip, so a 3 to 4 inch ape index.
However, it sounds like the 17.5" frame is my best bet. I'm going to go
to the other bike shop in town that carries Fishers, but even if they
don't have one for me to try, I'll probably just buy it sight unseen.

Joel, by any chance do you like the fit of your current bike?
If so you can measure the effective top tube (lots of advice
on the 'net about how to do that) and then take into account
the stem length. That'll give you some idea of how the new
ride might differ from your old one.

Quoted message said:

Fisher offered the supercaliber frame
with the xcaliber components in 03 and 04; for
05 they seem to have stopped offering the supercal frame, but I was
just curious: what is the difference between an x-caliber frame and a
supercaliber frame?

Paint.

Oh, and what size seatpost it takes. All the pre-05 hardtail frames
had 31.6mm seatposts, now they all have the popular 27.2mm

It's a good frame, for a beer can bike (shameless steel bigot).

And I should say, my statement that all the Fisher hardtail frames are
the same is not quite right. The new '05 Montare looks identical from a
geometry standpoint to the "Genesis Hardtail" Fisher 29ers, but the
chainstay-bottom bracket interface isn't the same, and subsequently
tire clearance is not nearly as good. Also the fork that comes on the
Montare is questionable for real offroad. I don't know how similar the
Montare is to the "Dual Sport" 29ers from Fisher last year. I never
saw any of those bikes.

Hope you enjoy the bike. I could go back to a Fisher hardtail if I
had to. A little stiffer than I like, and the geometry is a little
extreme, but it's a fun bike to ride.
--
Tom Purvis - arkansasvalley.nettpurvisOpen ↗
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."-Bertrand Russell[/QUOTE]

Quoted message said:

suggests to me that they just make one 29'er hardtail frame.
Although some have disk brake mounts and some don't.

Check out the _updated_ specs on The Rig....
29"er Disc Hardtail, SingleSpeed, the best of all worlds