Flats due to overheating?

Charles Beristain said:

Today we rode up Ascutney mt... about 2150 feet of rise in 3.8 miles.
halfway down I got a flat in the rear.. .we were not going fast ..
20mph at the most because there were cars going up and down and the
road is narrow and curvey... so lots of brakes.

I put another tube in and continued ... turned around at the bottom
and started back up and found the tire flat again.

My partner never showed up in the parking lot, so i drove up to find
him walking down with a flat front tire..

I'm hard pressed to believe the rims got hot enough to cause these
failures... but 3 flats on the way down seems more than co-incidence.

If the tire didn't go "BOOM!", the flats weren't caused by
overheating. Check the tubes for punctures. If they are small,
that's further evidence that the flats were not caused by
overheating.

When a tire gets too hot, it jumps off the rim, the tube goes
"BOOM", and the puncture is large and ragged.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Charles Beristain said:

Today we rode up Ascutney mt... about 2150 feet of rise in 3.8
miles. halfway down I got a flat in the rear.. .we were not going
fast .. 20mph at the most because there were cars going up and down
and the road is narrow and curvy... so lots of brakes.

I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang) or
a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

Quoted message said:

I put another tube in and continued ... turned around at the bottom
and started back up and found the tire flat again.

Describe this one as well. It could be that the thorn or other sharp
object was still in the tire and took a while to penetrate. Pleas
explain.

Quoted message said:

My partner never showed up in the parking lot, so i drove up to find
him walking down with a flat front tire...

Quoted message said:

I'm hard pressed to believe the rims got hot enough to cause these
failures... but 3 flats on the way down seems more than coincidence.

Puncture vine thorns are sometimes barely long enough to penetrate and
take a while for the tip to reach pressurized air. However, riding
down a steep grade will cause blow-offs, especially when going slow
enough to not generate much wind drag. Your speed was probably ideal.

Quoted message said:

Anyone have experience with this kind of problem?

If it was a tube tearing blowout, you must have heard it and if you
did, you are lucky that you didn't crash. Please explain the nature
of these flats.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:05:33 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang) or
a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

I should have explained it better.... it was a loud bang... but not as
loud as one that blows the tire off the rim... the tire remained on
the rim (clincher). I just looked at the tube... it was an ultralight
and it had a very large hole/tear right on a seam.

The second tube had a very large pin hole.. so it was a fast "slow
leak". Couldn't find anything in the tire that would have caused the
pin hole.. but it doesn't appear to be heat related .

thanks

charlieb in ct

Charles Beristain said:

Today we rode up Ascutney mt... about 2150 feet of rise in 3.8 miles.
halfway down I got a flat in the rear.. .we were not going fast ..
20mph at the most because there were cars going up and down and the
road is narrow and curvey... so lots of brakes.

Quoted message said:

I put another tube in and continued ... turned around at the bottom
and started back up and found the tire flat again.

Quoted message said:

My partner never showed up in the parking lot, so i drove up to find
him walking down with a flat front tire..

Quoted message said:

I'm hard pressed to believe the rims got hot enough to cause these
failures... but 3 flats on the way down seems more than co-incidence.

I've had mysterious (non-blowout/blowoff) flats on descents that require
significant braking. What I found common to these occurrences was that
the tube in question had been patched on the inside next to the rim. I
believe the heat from braking softened the patch glue because the tube in
question always seemed to hold air when I inspected it outside the tire.

--
Bill Bushnell

Charles Beristain said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang)
or a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

Quoted message said:

I should have explained it better.... it was a loud bang... but not
as loud as one that blows the tire off the rim... the tire remained
on the rim (clincher). I just looked at the tube... it was an
ultralight and it had a very large hole/tear right on a seam.

If you heard the bang, the tire was off the rim. That is known as a
heating blow-off. The tire usually falls back in place and as was
mentioned, the tube has a long slash in it, something you don't patch.

Quoted message said:

The second tube had a very large pin hole.. so it was a fast "slow
leak". Couldn't find anything in the tire that would have caused the
pin hole.. but it doesn't appear to be heat related .

Hold it. There are no "very large pin holes", pin holes are by
definition, a [censored] of a pin, otherwise they are star burst holes,
glass cuts or thorn [censored] (pin holes), but none of these make any
noise. Your estimate of the situation is getting curioser and
curioser. I almost get the notion you are putting us on with large
pin holes and fast slow leaks.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Charles Beristain said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang)
or a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

Quoted message said:

I should have explained it better.... it was a loud bang... but not
as loud as one that blows the tire off the rim... the tire remained
on the rim (clincher). I just looked at the tube... it was an
ultralight and it had a very large hole/tear right on a seam.

If you heard the bang, the tire was off the rim. That is known as a
heating blow-off. The tire usually falls back in place and as was
mentioned, the tube has a long slash in it, something you don't patch.

Quoted message said:

The second tube had a very large pin hole.. so it was a fast "slow
leak". Couldn't find anything in the tire that would have caused the
pin hole.. but it doesn't appear to be heat related .

Hold it. There are no "very large pin holes", pin holes are by
definition, a [censored] of a pin, otherwise they are star burst holes,
glass cuts or thorn [censored] (pin holes), but none of these make any
noise. Your estimate of the situation is getting curioser and
curioser. I almost get the notion you are putting us on with large
pin holes and fast slow leaks.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

I almost get the notion you are paranoid. Why accuse Charles
of lying on the basis of ill-advised semantic quibbles?

He's merely saying that there's a roundish hole big enough
to let the air out rapidly--I get them all the time on
goatheads. And they make noise when they're big enough. His
might have intriguing characteristics if viewed closely.

It's not as big as the kind of rip that gives a bang when a
tire bursts. It's not as small as the kind of tiny puncture
(a true sewing-pin-hole) that takes ten minutes, half an
hour, or all night to go flat.

Carl Fogel

thanks carl..
your explanation is on target.. guess I'll need to be more careful in
my descriptions...

Jobst.. not trying to mislead anyone.. I'm pretty much straight arrow
sorry for the confusion.

charlieb in ct.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Charles Beristain said:

> I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang)
> or a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

Quoted message said:

I should have explained it better.... it was a loud bang... but not
as loud as one that blows the tire off the rim... the tire remained
on the rim (clincher). I just looked at the tube... it was an
ultralight and it had a very large hole/tear right on a seam.

If you heard the bang, the tire was off the rim. That is known as a
heating blow-off. The tire usually falls back in place and as was
mentioned, the tube has a long slash in it, something you don't patch.

Quoted message said:

The second tube had a very large pin hole.. so it was a fast "slow
leak". Couldn't find anything in the tire that would have caused the
pin hole.. but it doesn't appear to be heat related .

Hold it. There are no "very large pin holes", pin holes are by
definition, a [censored] of a pin, otherwise they are star burst holes,
glass cuts or thorn [censored] (pin holes), but none of these make any
noise. Your estimate of the situation is getting curioser and
curioser. I almost get the notion you are putting us on with large
pin holes and fast slow leaks.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

I almost get the notion you are paranoid. Why accuse Charles
of lying on the basis of ill-advised semantic quibbles?

He's merely saying that there's a roundish hole big enough
to let the air out rapidly--I get them all the time on
goatheads. And they make noise when they're big enough. His
might have intriguing characteristics if viewed closely.

It's not as big as the kind of rip that gives a bang when a
tire bursts. It's not as small as the kind of tiny puncture
(a true sewing-pin-hole) that takes ten minutes, half an
hour, or all night to go flat.

Carl Fogel

Charles Beristain said:

thanks carl..
your explanation is on target.. guess I'll need to be more careful in
my descriptions...

Jobst.. not trying to mislead anyone.. I'm pretty much straight arrow
sorry for the confusion.

charlieb in ct.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Charles Beristain writes:

>> I'm not clear on what happened. Did you have a blowout (loud bang)
>> or a puncture that goesssssssss flat?

> I should have explained it better.... it was a loud bang... but not
> as loud as one that blows the tire off the rim... the tire remained
> on the rim (clincher). I just looked at the tube... it was an
> ultralight and it had a very large hole/tear right on a seam.

If you heard the bang, the tire was off the rim. That is known as a
heating blow-off. The tire usually falls back in place and as was
mentioned, the tube has a long slash in it, something you don't patch.

> The second tube had a very large pin hole.. so it was a fast "slow
> leak". Couldn't find anything in the tire that would have caused the
> pin hole.. but it doesn't appear to be heat related .

Hold it. There are no "very large pin holes", pin holes are by
definition, a [censored] of a pin, otherwise they are star burst holes,
glass cuts or thorn [censored] (pin holes), but none of these make any
noise. Your estimate of the situation is getting curioser and
curioser. I almost get the notion you are putting us on with large
pin holes and fast slow leaks.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

I almost get the notion you are paranoid. Why accuse Charles
of lying on the basis of ill-advised semantic quibbles?

He's merely saying that there's a roundish hole big enough
to let the air out rapidly--I get them all the time on
goatheads. And they make noise when they're big enough. His
might have intriguing characteristics if viewed closely.

It's not as big as the kind of rip that gives a bang when a
tire bursts. It's not as small as the kind of tiny puncture
(a true sewing-pin-hole) that takes ten minutes, half an
hour, or all night to go flat.

Carl Fogel

ASCUTNEY, VT (AP)

Authorities announced today that notorious con-man Charles
"Flat-Tire-Chuck" Beristain had been foiled yet again in his
efforts to hoodwink rec.bicycles.tech.

"His story just didn't hold air," explained Special Agent J.
Brandt of the Hot Air Squad. "It was full of pinholes."
Brandt went on to caution unwary posters: "We often see
these claims of flat tires, but they never check out. Don't
be fooled. These people are all after the same thing."

Brandt declined to specify what Beristain was after, citing
the Patriot Act and security concerns. "I see this kind of
thing all the time."

LOL ! ! !

OK, so Charles Beristain had repeated flats but the description was
vague enough that we still don't know what happened, nor probably does
he. Tire blow-off is a serious problem and should be understood. The
sudden loss of control caused by a blowout of any type is one hard to
control if descending with curves in the road. Therefore, the cause
of the flats should interest the readers of this group.

So what's the upshot?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So what's the upshot?

Jobst Brandt

That you should be nicer and not attack people who ask questions but
don't have the benefit of your engineering knowledge.

--Jim Rogers

'Most all questions have been asked, answered and ignored. That started in
HS 'science', continued thru freshman physics, into the FAQ and into the
board - or is it 'bored'? - room. Dilbert is not a humorous cartoon but
bathetic[sic].

"Jim Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So what's the upshot?

Jobst Brandt

That you should be nicer and not attack people who ask questions but
don't have the benefit of your engineering knowledge.

--Jim Rogers

Charles Beristain said:

Today we rode up Ascutney mt... about 2150 feet of rise in 3.8 miles.
halfway down I got a flat in the rear.. .we were not going fast ..
20mph at the most because there were cars going up and down and the
road is narrow and curvey... so lots of brakes.

I put another tube in and continued ... turned around at the bottom
and started back up and found the tire flat again.

My partner never showed up in the parking lot, so i drove up to find
him walking down with a flat front tire..

I'm hard pressed to believe the rims got hot enough to cause these
failures... but 3 flats on the way down seems more than co-incidence.

If the problem had been due to heat, I think it would have been
obvious. There's this little thing called "the stench of overheated
rubber" which would have been giving you warnings, and the rim and/or
tire would likely have been too hot to handle.

From other comments seen, it appears that the big-hole failure may
have been due to the tire peeling off over the rim's edge, which can
happen if it's overinflated or if the tire needs more of a hook than
is present on the rim to retain the bead. The small-hole failure's
cause could be random; I've noticed that several people lately have
been vexed by tubes failing for no apparent reason along seam lines,
and I've had two failures of that type myself on my road bike in the
past month on tubes that were less than two weeks old. I don't recall
your having provided a post-mortem for the third failure.

My conclusion: Three failures in the absence of a definite pattern
does not constitute anything more than a coincidence.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Rault who? said:

Quoted message said:

Today we rode up Ascutney Mt... about 2150 feet of rise in 3.8
miles. Halfway down I got a flat in the rear... We were not going
fast, 20mph at the most because there were cars going up and down
and the road is narrow and curvy... so lots of brakes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I put another tube in and continued... turned around at the bottom
and started back up and found the tire flat again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My partner never showed up in the parking lot, so I drove up to
find him walking down with a flat front tire.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm hard pressed to believe the rims got hot enough to cause these
failures... but 3 flats on the way down seems more than
coincidence.

Quoted message said:

If the problem had been due to heat, I think it would have been
obvious. There's this little thing called "the stench of overheated
rubber" which would have been giving you warnings, and the rim and/or
tire would likely have been too hot to handle.

I have ridden many steep descents, including ones that have caused
tire blow-off, and have not smelled hot brake pads. That is because
the surface of bicycle brake pads generally get equally hot during any
hard braking, successfully as well as with tire blow-off. Blow-off
depends on how long the rim remained hot enough to overheat air in
the inner tube rather than the temperature reached at the pad.

Quoted message said:

From other comments seen, it appears that the big-hole failure may
have been due to the tire peeling off over the rim's edge, which can
happen if it's overinflated or if the tire needs more of a hook than
is present on the rim to retain the bead.

How does the tire become "over inflated" on a steep descent? Here are
two riders who have ridden a bit who had flats with a bang. The report

Quoted message said:

The small-hole failure's cause could be random; I've noticed that
several people lately have been vexed by tubes failing for no
apparent reason along seam lines, and I've had two failures of that
type myself on my road bike in the past month on tubes that were
less than two weeks old. I don't recall your having provided a
post-mortem for the third failure. My conclusion: Three failures in
the absence of a definite pattern does not constitute anything more
than a coincidence.

In the absence of more information, one can only speculate.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]