Hey, Guy...

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:25:02 +0100, " [Not Responding] "
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Someone's swallowed PS's view of the world hook, line & sinker.

It's the "ABD's Lonely Factoid" again.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Not Responding said:

Take a look at this page

http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-speed-cameras.htm

They've put a picture of a bus on the page that goes past my house.
--
Mark

1x1 wheel, 3x2 wheels & 1x3 wheels.

the.Mark said:

Not Responding said:

Take a look at this page

http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-speed-cameras.htm

They've put a picture of a bus on the page that goes past my house.

The Government and official bodies such as the TRL and DTLR have put
it about that some 30% of road accidents are attributable to
"excessive speed". That turns out to be a misrepresentation by a
factor of up to 10. The 30% depends on assigning "excessive speed" to
the following categories:

1 Failure to judge other person's path or speed 10.7%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast to take decisive action"

2 Excessive speed (Include exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph)
7.3%

3 Following too closely 4.1%
Alternatively worded as "driving to fast for the braking distance"

4 Slippery road 3.0%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

5 Aggressive Driving 1.4%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast"

6 Weather, e.g. mist or sleet 0.8%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

7 Other, local conditions 0.4%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

8 Total
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Warning: This user suffers from narcolepppppppppp
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in message <[email hidden]>, the.Mark

(') said:

Not Responding said:

Take a look at this page

http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-speed-cameras.htm

They've put a picture of a bus on the page that goes past my house.

You have a _page_ which goes past your house? I must get out more.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

in message <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates

(') said:

the.Mark said:

Not Responding said:

Take a look at this page

http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-speed-cameras.htm

They've put a picture of a bus on the page that goes past my house.

The Government and official bodies such as the TRL and DTLR have put
it about that some 30% of road accidents are attributable to
"excessive speed". That turns out to be a misrepresentation by a
factor of up to 10. The 30% depends on assigning "excessive speed" to
the following categories:

1 Failure to judge other person's path or speed 10.7%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast to take decisive action"

2 Excessive speed (Include exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph)
7.3%

3 Following too closely 4.1%
Alternatively worded as "driving to fast for the braking distance"

4 Slippery road 3.0%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

5 Aggressive Driving 1.4%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast"

6 Weather, e.g. mist or sleet 0.8%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

7 Other, local conditions 0.4%
Alternatively worded as "driving too fast for the conditions"

8 Total

And which of those, in your opinion, cannot be accurately described as
excessive speed?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing left for us to do
but pick up the pieces.

Richard Bates <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The Government and official bodies such as the TRL and DTLR have put
it about that some 30% of road accidents are attributable to
"excessive speed". That turns out to be a misrepresentation by a
factor of up to 10...

Oh, dear, yet more misrepresentation of the use of Supplementary stats
19 forms. For one thing the guidance for these forms suggests that
'excessive speed' usually means ONLY 'excessive speed for the
conditions that is ALSO above the legal speed limit, not excessive
speed for the conditions that is otherwise 'legal'. This has caused
much confusion and in a recent review of these forms the DfT is
considering having a separate category for excessive speed for the
conditions that is above and that which is below the legal limit.

Also, excessive speed is not even listed as the main or precipitating
cause of a crash, so it is hardly surprising that the Stats 19 forms
don't show speed as a major factor. This was done quite deliberately
as when the use of these forms was standardised a few years back it
was accepted that speed played a intimate role in the causal chain of
events leading to most crashes and given this what was needed was a
better understanding of just how the inappropriate use of speed led to
a crash in a given situation. In any case the list of factors includes
items such as 'losing control' which only a fool would argue have
nothing to do with driving at excessive speed, however they might be
recorded.

Also, and this is very important, the '7%' figures relate to all
crashes. A closer examination of the current figures, which downplay
the role of speed in many ways, nontheless still show that excessive
speed plays a central role in the causation of around 30% of fatal
crashes. This is exactly what we would expect. Attempting to argue
that figures which include low speed parking shunts and so on somehow
show that high speeds have nothing to do with the likelihood of a
serious or fatal crash occurring seems like nothing more than a
calculated deceit...