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Re: Experiences with Tacx I Magic...?

Started by Robert Chung · · Last activity · 3 posts · 707 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
13 October 2004
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13 October 2004
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Robert Chung
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  1. Amit said:

    i used one for a while, i'd recommend getting a tacx basic, excel or
    flow for serious training (the new models might have better
    calibration features).

    The Basic appears to have been replaced in the Tacx line-up with the Flow.
    AFAIK, the roll-down calibration feature from the Flow hasn't been added
    to the Excel model. I have no idea whether it's on the I-Magic. As little
    as a quarter of a turn on the roller adjustment knob makes an observable
    difference to the power readings, so the Flow's roll-down calibration is
    pretty handy.

    Quoted message said:

    the most important feature for me is being able to control your
    workload and the cheaper tacx (ergo) trainers let you do that.

    Last Spring, some guys on the Wattage list and I did some analysis of the
    Flow and the Excel (but not the I-Magic). In both power-measuring mode and
    in power-controlling mode (ergo mode), the Excel seemed to do pretty well.
    Here's a plot of a 45-minute training session comparing the Excel to the
    SRM:
    http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/srm-tacx.png

    I've found that my Tacx Flow is quite consistent in power mode. This graph
    http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/flow.png
    shows the indicated power at a given speed with four different scale
    factors. The point of the graph is that in power mode the Flow seems to
    measure wattage consistently, and I believe that if I had an SRM or Power
    Tap against which to compare I could find a scaling factor that would
    "envelope" the correct power curve reasonably well. That's not to say that
    the fit would be perfect; there have been reports (for which I haven't
    seen the data, so I can only report it anecdotally) that the Tacx power
    curve scales up a bit slower than real power. Still, I was moderately
    reassured that the Flow appears to be in the right ballpark.

    Alas, despite sharing the same load generator across all three models (the
    Flow, the Excel, and the I-Magic) the Flow's ability to control load in
    ergo mode appears to be much weaker than for the Excel.
    Another guy tried a series of experiments with a Flow in ergo mode. Here's
    his description:
    http://home.comcast.net/~rwwells/Tacx/DOEFlow.html
    from which I calculated this error pattern for the Flow:
    http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tacx_correction.png

    The chart may be a bit hard to interpret so I should probably explain. The
    idea of an ergo is that you set the wattage you want (say, 250W) and off
    you go (Ron Popeil would say, "set it and forget it"😉; the ergo will match
    the load so that whatever speed you ride, you'll be generating 250 watts.
    So in an ideal world you'd want the percent error to be independent of
    your speed. The chart plots the error against kph (or, in this case, the
    ratio of the wattage setting to the speed), and if the ergo worked well
    the pattern would have zero slope.

    The observed pattern doesn't have zero slope.

    Instead, it says that in ergo mode the Flow's electronic braking system
    fails to increase the load by the appropriate amount to keep power
    constant as wheel speed increases. If you look only at the black dots
    (where the scale factor is set at 100), it says that if you set the ergo
    for a constant 250W, the Flow will only have zero error if you're riding
    at 23kph. At 28kph, the Flow is only able to produce enough braking force
    to generate an actual load of about 200W (about a 20% error). At 36kph,
    the Flow was actually producing about 40% less load than it should have.
    The scaling factor moves the curve up and down, but doesn't fix the basic
    underlying problem.

    The good news is that the error is stable and predictable. The bad news is
    that the slope of the error is huge, which sort of defeats the entire
    intent of the ergo feature.

    I don't know whether the I-Magic controls the load more like the Excel or
    more like the Flow, but if you're interested in how realistic the "virtual
    reality" features of the I-Magic are, I'd think you'd want to know.

    Cool graphics, though.

    --
    Trends and bias in 2004 election polls:
    http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/polls/pollbias.html

  2. I said:

    I've found that my Tacx Flow is quite consistent in power mode. This
    graph http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/flow.png
    shows the indicated power at a given speed with four different scale
    factors.

    A correction: the curves are the indicated power at four different *slope*
    factors, not scale factors. This was part of the basis for why I was
    reassured by the Flow's performance: I think one might be able to come
    close to mimicing the readings from a Power Tap or SRM over a reasonably
    wide neighborhood of preferred speed by fiddling with both slope and scale
    factors. You might be off outside that neighborhood, but if the
    neighborhood is wide enough you wouldn't care.

    A clarification: in that graph, the data shown by hollow circles were
    collected first. Then, 14 weeks later, using the same tires, tire
    pressure, and roll-down calibration settings, I collected the red dot data
    to see whether there was any drift in the data points.

  3. "Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    The Basic appears to have been replaced in the Tacx line-up with the Flow.
    AFAIK, the roll-down calibration feature from the Flow hasn't been added
    to the Excel model.

    i checked out the tacx site and they only list the flow, excel and
    i-magic. i don't think the i-magic has the roll down calibration
    feature. if i was buying today i'd probably umm... go with the flow.

    Quoted message said:

    Instead, it says that in ergo mode the Flow's electronic braking system
    fails to increase the load by the appropriate amount to keep power
    constant as wheel speed increases.

    Quoted message said:

    At 36kph,
    the Flow was actually producing about 40% less load than it should have.
    The scaling factor moves the curve up and down, but doesn't fix the basic
    underlying problem.

    The good news is that the error is stable and predictable. The bad news is
    that the slope of the error is huge, which sort of defeats the entire
    intent of the ergo feature.

    this is problematic. my solution is to keep speed and cadence in a
    narrow range. though, according some other observations that were
    posted at wattage the power requirements for the basic increased with
    wheel speed in ergo mode, but it's not improbable that the basic and
    flow control the load differently.

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