Saddle recommendation

"Yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for a not inexpensive but comfortable saddle for a long ride.
It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.
Any recommendation.? Yes, I understand it is individual thing, but I

would

Quoted message said:

like
to hear your opinion before spending. What is your favorate saddle ?
TIA.

I have Brooks B-17 saddles on all my bikes. They've been made for almost 100
years now, have a reputation of lasting for decades, and eliminate the butt
as a factor in how long you can ride. I've ridden back-to-back century rides
in comfort on a B-17. Randonneurs, ultra long-distance riders, often use
Brooks saddles.
They're not expensive, $60~$70, classically handsome and make your bike that
much more enjoyable.

Available here: http://www.wallbike.com/ here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html here:
http://www.bicycleclassics.com/saddles.html here: http://www.permaco.com and
many other places.

"Dave Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for a not inexpensive but comfortable saddle for a long

ride.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.
Any recommendation.? Yes, I understand it is individual thing, but I

would

Quoted message said:

like
to hear your opinion before spending. What is your favorate saddle ?
TIA.

I have Brooks B-17 saddles on all my bikes. They've been made for almost

100

Quoted message said:

years now, have a reputation of lasting for decades, and eliminate the

butt

Quoted message said:

as a factor in how long you can ride. I've ridden back-to-back century

rides

Quoted message said:

in comfort on a B-17. Randonneurs, ultra long-distance riders, often use
Brooks saddles.
They're not expensive, $60~$70, classically handsome and make your bike

that

Quoted message said:

much more enjoyable.

"Classically handsome"? Hmmm...that's a matter of opinion. One could say
the same thing about tail fins, whitewall tires, etc. Personally, I find the
old school look (leather and big copper rivets) clashes aesthetically with
most modern road bikes. Kind of like hanging fuzzy dice off the mirror of a
BMW Z4.

For the OP - saddles are highly individualized items. A saddle that I find
comfortable for all day riding, you might find to be torturous. You'll
probably need to try several before finding one that fits you properly.
Also, give your body and butt enough time in the saddle to "harden"
(especially if you've just started riding), before making any saddle
changes.

FWIW - I tried 4 different brands of saddles before finding the Selle Italia
SLR. It's a "minimalist" design, but fits my rear just right and is
comfortable on rides up to and including centuries.

GG

Quoted message said:

Available here: http://www.wallbike.com/ here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html here:
http://www.bicycleclassics.com/saddles.html here: http://www.permaco.com

and

Quoted message said:

many other places.

Dave Thompson said:

"Yum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking for a not inexpensive but comfortable saddle for a long ride.
It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.
Any recommendation.? Yes, I understand it is individual thing, but I

would

Quoted message said:

like
to hear your opinion before spending. What is your favorate saddle ?
TIA.

I have Brooks B-17 saddles on all my bikes. They've been made for almost 100
years now, have a reputation of lasting for decades, and eliminate the butt
as a factor in how long you can ride. I've ridden back-to-back century rides
in comfort on a B-17. Randonneurs, ultra long-distance riders, often use
Brooks saddles.
They're not expensive, $60~$70, classically handsome and make your bike that
much more enjoyable.

Available here: http://www.wallbike.com/ here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles.html here:
http://www.bicycleclassics.com/saddles.html here: http://www.permaco.com and
many other places.

Howdy,

I, too, ride only Brooks, but would add...

If they fit, they feel fine on the first ride, and get better after
that.

I have know many folks who find them uncomfortable out of the box, but
somehow decide to "tough it out" in the hope that things will get
better. They won't. It's just like a good leather shoe: It is not
going to become a good fit down the road.

And finally, the tilt matters. If you happen to have a micro-adjusting
post, all the better. Start with the saddle level (not by eye, using a
level). Ride a bit (and by that I mean a mile or so.) Sense if you are
sliding fore, or aft, and if you are really "sitting" on the wide rear
of the saddle. Adjust the tilt accordingly, and ride another mile.
Repeat until you have no tendency to slide. Then leave it be.

If you are not happy in the first ten miles, put the saddle back in
the box, and try another brand. I would also mention that there are a
number of online shops that will take Brooks saddles back for full
refund on such a return.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Retro Bob said:

Well, I have to take the other side. I got a brooks B17N in 1973.
It was hard. Way too hard. Oiled it, loosened the bolt, oiled it
some more, hammered it with a mallet (off the bike, but I kid you
not).

Wasn't the old advice to soak it in Neatsfoot oil
for a few days, then put it on an old seatpost,
clamp the seatpost in a vise, and beat it with a
baseball bat?

Larry Coon
University of California

Retro Bob said:

Kenneth said:

I have know many folks who find them uncomfortable out of the box, but
somehow decide to "tough it out" in the hope that things will get
better. They won't. It's just like a good leather shoe: It is not
going to become a good fit down the road.

Well, I have to take the other side. I got a brooks B17N in 1973.
It was hard. Way too hard. Oiled it, loosened the bolt, oiled it
some more, hammered it with a mallet (off the bike, but I kid you
not). I kept hearing "it'll break in, it'll break in". Well, it
took about 4 years. I rode a lot in those days. It still took
4 years.

I still have it 30 years later and it is a wonderful saddle. I would
not trade it for anything. But, there was a _very_ long break in.

One thing I will point out is that too many riders don't adjust
the stretch clamp to loosen the leather a little... I think that
was the key to making mine start to break in.

Mention saddles and blow up a tempest -- it always happens.

I have three Brooks, also acquired in the 70's, but I can't recall ever
having to break them in. I do recall that the first one was a little
hard for a while, but that went away when my bottom toughened up. One of
the advantages of a leather saddle, that I don't recall anyone
mentioning, is the fact that they flex on impact. I have on occasion hit
a break in the pavement that I wasn't expecting and my leather saddles
have always kept me safe; in contrast to a plastic saddle that I had for
a while on my commuter bike. When I hit a bump with that one, I hurt.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:40:06 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mention saddles and blow up a tempest -- it always happens.

I have three Brooks, also acquired in the 70's, but I can't recall ever
having to break them in. I do recall that the first one was a little
hard for a while, but that went away when my bottom toughened up. One of
the advantages of a leather saddle, that I don't recall anyone
mentioning, is the fact that they flex on impact. I have on occasion hit
a break in the pavement that I wasn't expecting and my leather saddles
have always kept me safe; in contrast to a plastic saddle that I had for
a while on my commuter bike. When I hit a bump with that one, I hurt.

Hi Bob,

I agree with you on all counts...

It is particularly strange that when it comes to leather saddles
people often discard everything that is known about the proper
treatment of leather.

No one in their right mind would expose a fine leather shoe or
briefcase to the sorts of torment one often hears suggested to "break
in" a Brooks.

Beyond that, would you not think that the good folks at Brooks would
have learned by now that the best way to enjoy one of their saddles is
to first soak it for a few days in 90 weight gear oil, beat the [censored]
out of it with a truck tire iron and then tumble it in a commercial
clothes drier at maximum heat for a few hours?

Hey, this Usenet thing sure beats TV...

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Retro Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kenneth said:

I have know many folks who find them uncomfortable out of the box, but
somehow decide to "tough it out" in the hope that things will get
better. They won't. It's just like a good leather shoe: It is not
going to become a good fit down the road.

Well, I have to take the other side. I got a brooks B17N in 1973.
It was hard. Way too hard. Oiled it, loosened the bolt, oiled it
some more, hammered it with a mallet (off the bike, but I kid you
not). I kept hearing "it'll break in, it'll break in". Well, it
took about 4 years. I rode a lot in those days. It still took
4 years.

I still have it 30 years later and it is a wonderful saddle. I would
not trade it for anything. But, there was a _very_ long break in.

One thing I will point out is that too many riders don't adjust
the stretch clamp to loosen the leather a little... I think that
was the key to making mine start to break in.

Interesting...my B-17s, none of them, required any break-in to be
comfortable from the get-go. They became better as time wore on. Now I have
a Pro, which has thicker leather and it DOES require some break-in time, but
it's coming along and I certainly wouldn't soak it in oit, beat it or
anything else other than the 'normal' Proofide application and riding.

The key to Brooks saddles is proper attention to set-up; tilt (nose up/down)
and left/right angle. Like I said earlier, they've been around for a hundred
years so they must be doing something right. That said, not every saddle is
good for everyone. It will sometimes take a little searching and tryout to
find the best one. But on the whole, Brooks saddles have proven through time
and use to be good, durable and comfortable for many, many riders throughout
the years.

Dave Thompson said:

Now I have
a Pro, which has thicker leather

Hi Dave,

This caught my eye...

I have three Pros, and a B17. One of the Pros is current and the other
two are Pro Selects that are probably 20 years old, or older.

The leather on the pros is all the same thickness to the eye, and the
thumb.

The leather on the B17 is perhaps 60-70% as thick and a push with the
thumbs says the same. The difference is obvious.

Now the interesting part:

Recently, I sent some emails to the folks at Brooks. To my amazement,
they responded that the leather they spec is identical for all their
saddles and was unchanged for very many years.

The gentleman who wrote to me went further: He explained that the
thickness of the leather had to be the same because of the dies that
were used to form the saddles. He said that were the leather thinner
it would not properly fill the void, and, thus, could not be properly
formed.

Hey, maybe I should have my eyes (and thumbs I suppose) checked...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Yum said:

I am looking for a not inexpensive but comfortable saddle for a long ride.
It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.
Any recommendation.? Yes, I understand it is individual thing, but I would
like
to hear your opinion before spending. What is your favorate saddle ?
TIA.

Hi, I have been happy with the Selle Italia Basic Prolink. I have them
on both my bikes. They have some give to them, when hitting bumps and
a contour that seems to keep me in place.
That's what works for me. I must admit, I am tempted to try a Brooks,
someday. Of course I am also tempted to try a Selle Italia SLR.

I have a Selle Italia Prolink Genuine Gel, in decent condition, that I
would be willing to swap for a similar condition SI SLR or Brooks.
Any takers?

Life is Good!
Jeff

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Thompson said:

Now I have
a Pro, which has thicker leather

Hi Dave,

This caught my eye...

I have three Pros, and a B17. One of the Pros is current and the other
two are Pro Selects that are probably 20 years old, or older.

The leather on the pros is all the same thickness to the eye, and the
thumb.

The leather on the B17 is perhaps 60-70% as thick and a push with the
thumbs says the same. The difference is obvious.

Now the interesting part:

Recently, I sent some emails to the folks at Brooks. To my amazement,
they responded that the leather they spec is identical for all their
saddles and was unchanged for very many years.

The gentleman who wrote to me went further: He explained that the
thickness of the leather had to be the same because of the dies that
were used to form the saddles. He said that were the leather thinner
it would not properly fill the void, and, thus, could not be properly
formed.

Hey, maybe I should have my eyes (and thumbs I suppose) checked...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

Interesting. The Brooks guy is correct. I took my micrometer and measured
the thickness at the same place on each saddle, by the first rear rivet. The
leather thickness of the B-17 and Pro are within .01 of each other. Perhaps
it's because the Pro/Swift etc., are narrower and the seating length is
shorter and they are built on a smaller frame, therefore stiffer and have
less give to the 'thumb test' that they feel thicker. I always assumed the
Pro was thicker because of the stiffness. I wonder if the treatment to the
leather is any different on the various models.

RE/

Quoted message said:

...comfortable saddle for a long ride.
It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.

If your butt isn't too narrow, one you could try is a Brooks B-72.
Four wires with little curlyque springs in the back. Just enough sus to take
the edge off, but solid enough for good control. I had one of these on my road
bike for about five years. Every so often, I'd take it off and try a "real"
saddle...lasted about one ride...thought my molars were gonna get jarred right
out of my jaw.

Another (maybe better) is to find a good sus post. That would give you the
protection against jarring but leave you a wide choice of saddles depending on
your dimensions/preferences.
--
PeteCresswell

RE/

Quoted message said:

Interesting...my B-17s, none of them, required any break-in to be
comfortable from the get-go. They became better as time wore on.

From reading past threads, I get the impression that Brooks is not exactly noted
for the consitancy of the leather they use. Mostly people are happy with their
new Brooks, but every so often somebody gets one that's made from extra-stiff
leather.
--
PeteCresswell

Dave Thompson said:

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Thompson said:

Now I have
a Pro, which has thicker leather

Hi Dave,

This caught my eye...

I have three Pros, and a B17. One of the Pros is current and the other
two are Pro Selects that are probably 20 years old, or older.

The leather on the pros is all the same thickness to the eye, and the
thumb.

The leather on the B17 is perhaps 60-70% as thick and a push with the
thumbs says the same. The difference is obvious.

Now the interesting part:

Recently, I sent some emails to the folks at Brooks. To my amazement,
they responded that the leather they spec is identical for all their
saddles and was unchanged for very many years.

The gentleman who wrote to me went further: He explained that the
thickness of the leather had to be the same because of the dies that
were used to form the saddles. He said that were the leather thinner
it would not properly fill the void, and, thus, could not be properly
formed.

Hey, maybe I should have my eyes (and thumbs I suppose) checked...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

Interesting. The Brooks guy is correct. I took my micrometer and measured
the thickness at the same place on each saddle, by the first rear rivet. The
leather thickness of the B-17 and Pro are within .01 of each other. Perhaps
it's because the Pro/Swift etc., are narrower and the seating length is
shorter and they are built on a smaller frame, therefore stiffer and have
less give to the 'thumb test' that they feel thicker. I always assumed the
Pro was thicker because of the stiffness. I wonder if the treatment to the
leather is any different on the various models.

Hi Dave,

I will mike the two saddles tomorrow... We shall see.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article <[email hidden]>, Retro Bob says...

Quoted message said:

Well, I have to take the other side. I got a brooks B17N in 1973.
It was hard. Way too hard. Oiled it, loosened the bolt, oiled it
some more, hammered it with a mallet (off the bike, but I kid you
not). I kept hearing "it'll break in, it'll break in". Well, it
took about 4 years. I rode a lot in those days. It still took
4 years.

Maybe it wasn't the saddle, maybe it was you. I have a leather saddle from may
years ago, so long in fact it came with the bike. It was painful to ride even
after I treated it with several kinds of goop. Then I began to ride more,
thousands of miles rather than hundreds of miles per year, and now it is
perfectly comfortable. But so is my thinly padded plastic saddle.

Howdy Yum, Yes, you'll get a 1000 opinions on this, as our "Butts" are
a very personalized thing. No two are alike!

As another poster mentions, the old school saddles (Brooks, San Marco
Regal, and Rolls) perhaps don't look right on a modern bike, but I
myself wouldn't hesitiate a bit if that's what works. Agreed, the new
Selle SLR's and Fizik's have a very nice sleek minimalist look to them,
but if they don't work for you, then they aren't worth a dime. I like
the old school Steel Frame bikes myself like the Sachs, Waterford,
Columbine, Masi, Merckx, Paramounts, etc, but I would not hesitate in a
minute to put a traditional Brooks Swift, Pro, orTeam Pro, or perhaps a
San Marco Rolls/Regal on a brand spankin new Colnago C40, Trek 5.9
Carbon frame Bike, etc (That's if I had the cash to afford one!)

Most of these Modern Saddles have Plastic/Carbon Shells underneath thier
padding, and in essence if they don't feel right, or good to you right
out of the box, it's doubtful that they'll feel any different, or better
10,000 miles later. I'd stay away from the cheaper Selle Saddles like
the Tri-Matic. (Unless your not planning on having any children)

Usually, you won't find $100 saddles for $25 unless they're used, or
maybe get lucky on Ebay.

If you have a good bike shop in your area that has good inventory, this
will really be a great help finding a saddle that fits you, and fits
your budget too. See if you can examine various brands/models, and
perhaps even take some test rides on some new bikes at a dealer
concentrating on the various saddles themselves.

Where I live in Southwest USA, my town is small, and many people just
won't shell out big bucks for items like this, so the shops carry just a
few "Dealer" Brand saddles, nothing over $40.

On one bike I own, I use a Brooks Swift Ti, and yes it was a bit hard,
and took some breaking in, lots of Proofhide conditioner at first
inside, and out, and some getting used to, and having the saddle start
to conform to my own Butt-break-in, but it is coming along just fine,
and I much prefer this Saddle over some of the cheaper Selle's I've
have/had.

Hope you make out well, and make the right choice first time out. Mark

I've tried various Brooks with a variety of break-in procedures- from
nothing to beating on it with a tire iron. None has ended up as
comfortable as the WTB saddles (http://www.wtb.com/saddles.html) I
have on several of my bikes. The WTB saddles *for me* have ended up
being all-day comfortable.

Saddles are an individual thing, as is bike fit. If you're having
trouble with a particular saddle, you may need nothing more than a
proper bike fitting. Before swapping out saddles, have your
adjustments checked by a professional bike fitter.

Jeff

Yum said:

I am looking for a not inexpensive but comfortable saddle for a long ride.
It is for a road bike. Weight is not very important.
Any recommendation.? Yes, I understand it is individual thing, but I would
like
to hear your opinion before spending. What is your favorate saddle ?
TIA.

I'm still looking. Even occasionally getting cheap ones off of eBay. I figure I
might find something and say "hey, this is good enough to go buy a new one."

Ron

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:59:24 -0400, Kenneth <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:40:06 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mention saddles and blow up a tempest -- it always happens.

I have three Brooks, also acquired in the 70's, but I can't recall ever
having to break them in. I do recall that the first one was a little
hard for a while, but that went away when my bottom toughened up. One of
the advantages of a leather saddle, that I don't recall anyone
mentioning, is the fact that they flex on impact. I have on occasion hit
a break in the pavement that I wasn't expecting and my leather saddles
have always kept me safe; in contrast to a plastic saddle that I had for
a while on my commuter bike. When I hit a bump with that one, I hurt.

Hi Bob,

I agree with you on all counts...

It is particularly strange that when it comes to leather saddles
people often discard everything that is known about the proper
treatment of leather.

No one in their right mind would expose a fine leather shoe or
briefcase to the sorts of torment one often hears suggested to "break
in" a Brooks.

Beyond that, would you not think that the good folks at Brooks would
have learned by now that the best way to enjoy one of their saddles is
to first soak it for a few days in 90 weight gear oil, beat the [censored]
out of it with a truck tire iron and then tumble it in a commercial
clothes drier at maximum heat for a few hours?

Hey, this Usenet thing sure beats TV...

Ya know, with premiums being paid for "distressed" and "relic" versions of newly
manufactured items it wouldn't ber at all a surprise to see something like that.
Guitars even are being sold pre-worn. What's up with that, I don't know.

Damn, hope we didn't give them any ideas.

Ron

Ronsonic said:

Guitars even are being sold pre-worn. What's up with that, I don't know.

Must be where Willie Nelson got his...

--

-John ([email hidden])