Brake lever query

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm converting a drop barred bike to flats for my daughter to use. I've
done this succesfully in the past for my wife.

It's fitted with Weinman side pull calipers, which might get upgraded
in the future to dual pivots.

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes. I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure. I know people have had trouble using drop
levers with V brakes unless additional gadgetry was used, but will it
be a problem the other way round?

I'd suck it and see. With drop bars and V brakes, the problem is the lever
doesn't have enough travel, so may well bottom out before maximum braking
happens. With straight bars and calipers, the problem is the other way
round, so you won't bottom out the lever, but also your daughter may not
have the required strength to stop hard.

Some old V brake levers (I had a pair of LX ones once) have variable
mechanical advantage, which solves this problem.

cheers,
clive

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes. I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure.

V-Brake levers won't have enough leverage for the sidepull brakes i.e. they
won't pull the cable far enough.

In practice this means the pads would have to be set very close to the rim
to ensure that there is adequate clearance between the lever and the
handlebar grip when the brakes are applied. Even with the pads at their
closest setting, there may not be enough lever-to-grip clearance.

It might be worth trying them to see, but I suspect they will be no good.
Better to go back and swap the levers for the right ones.

Ian

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm converting a drop barred bike to flats for my daughter to use. I've
done this succesfully in the past for my wife.

It's fitted with Weinman side pull calipers, which might get upgraded
in the future to dual pivots.

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes. I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure. I know people have had trouble using drop
levers with V brakes unless additional gadgetry was used, but will it
be a problem the other way round?

I tried Sheldon and Jobst, but my head exploded in a mes of mechanical
advantage diagrams.
Tim, posting from google so apologies if it comes out twice.

The problem with V brakes is that the lever needs to pull more cable than
for conventional brakes. So, conventional levers never really pull enough
cable to get V brakes working properly. In your case the problem is the
other way round so the brakes will be over sensitive and may come on rather
sharply. Setting the pads further from the rim will help to make the brakes
touch the rim when the brake lever is nearer to the handlebar, which may
help smaller hands. My guess is that it will be OK and will just need
getting used to, a bit like driving a new car.

Rod

"wheelsgoround" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1096732139.dTnal9EfBbFbfZ3Qq2zTBw@teranews...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes. I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure.

V-Brake levers won't have enough leverage for the sidepull brakes i.e.

they

Quoted message said:

won't pull the cable far enough.

No, it's the other way round - V-Brake levers pull too much cable for
sidepulls. You're talking about the more normal case of road bike levers
with V brakes.

Quoted message said:

In practice this means the pads would have to be set very close to the rim
to ensure that there is adequate clearance between the lever and the
handlebar grip when the brakes are applied. Even with the pads at their
closest setting, there may not be enough lever-to-grip clearance.

The issue isn't one of cable travel, it's one of hand strength.

cheers,
clive

in message <[email hidden]>, Tim

Hall (') said:

I'm converting a drop barred bike to flats for my daughter to use.
I've done this succesfully in the past for my wife.

It's fitted with Weinman side pull calipers, which might get upgraded
in the future to dual pivots.

Weinmann side-pulls truly were dreadful. It's extremely difficult to
adjust them for best efficiency and even when you do, that 'best
efficiency' isn't at all good. I'd /seriously/ advise changing them -
your daughter's life may depend on it.

Quoted message said:

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes. I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure.

Not suitable. They're designed to pull a lot more cable, and
consequently the leverage is all wrong.

Quoted message said:

I know people have had trouble using drop
levers with V brakes unless additional gadgetry was used, but will it
be a problem the other way round?

Yes, and I don't know any gadget that does the 'Travel Agent' thing in
reverse (Travel Agents may work both ways but I haven not heard of this
being done).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Iraq war: it's time for regime change...
... go now, Tony, while you can still go with dignity.
[update 18 months after this .sig was written: it's still relevant]

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, and I don't know any gadget that does the 'Travel Agent' thing in
reverse (Travel Agents may work both ways but I haven not heard of this
being done).

Having a Travel Agent, I doubt they'd work in reverse. Apart from anything
else, they're designed to sit in place of the brake noodle of V-brakes - I
don't think there'd be anything for them to brace against to allow the cable
to pull through on a side-pull caliper? I suspect reversing the direction
of the cable pull could be problematic as well. I would not recommend it at
all.

Rich

wheelsgoround wrote a complete load of rubbish:

[snip]

Sorry !

I got that completely a**e about face. I confused myself into thinking
you were going the other way for some stupid reason.
Just ignore me.

Ian

wheelsgoround [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Ian

He's still here! Don't go, we're getting seriously concerned.

Jon

Tim Hall said:

Quoted message said:

I'm converting a drop barred bike to flats for my daughter to use. I've
done this succesfully in the past for my wife.

It's fitted with Weinman side pull calipers, which might get upgraded
in the future to dual pivots.

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes.

Bad LBS! Never the twain shall meet!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure. I know people have had trouble using drop
levers with V brakes unless additional gadgetry was used, but will it
be a problem the other way round?

I tried Sheldon and Jobst, but my head exploded in a mes of mechanical
advantage diagrams.

Rod Jenkins said:

The problem with V brakes is that the lever needs to pull more cable than
for conventional brakes. So, conventional levers never really pull enough
cable to get V brakes working properly. In your case the problem is the
other way round so the brakes will be over sensitive and may come on rather
sharply.

No, actually it's the other way around. The "V brake" levers will
move the pads against the rim fast, but not hard.

The result will be a rock-hard lever "feel" but she will need to have
VERY strong hands to get enough grip to make up for the greatly
reduced mechanical advantage.

Take the levers back and get appropriate ones, this is NOT safe the
way it is.

Sheldon "Match 'Em Up" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts, USA
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven't yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don't wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On 3 Oct 2004 12:25:07 -0700, [email hidden] (Sheldon Brown)

Quoted message said:

Tim Hall said:

Quoted message said:

I'm converting a drop barred bike to flats for my daughter to use. I've
done this succesfully in the past for my wife.

It's fitted with Weinman side pull calipers, which might get upgraded
in the future to dual pivots.

My LBS sold me levers suitable for V brakes.

Bad LBS! Never the twain shall meet!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think they may not be
suitable, but I'm not sure. I know people have had trouble using drop
levers with V brakes unless additional gadgetry was used, but will it
be a problem the other way round?

I tried Sheldon and Jobst, but my head exploded in a mes of mechanical
advantage diagrams.

Mrs. Hall has since explained mechanical advantage in terms of opening
a door by either pushing at the handle end or the hinge end. And out
of my own head,whilst doing the grid iron,I explained it to myself in
terms of high and low gears on my bike.

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The result will be a rock-hard lever "feel" but she will need to have
VERY strong hands to get enough grip to make up for the greatly
reduced mechanical advantage.

Take the levers back and get appropriate ones, this is NOT safe the
way it is.

An answer from The Guvnor! Truly, I am not worthy.

And the levers go back to the shop tomorrow, touch wood.

Thanks to all for your input.

Tim
--
Blue Witch laughed at me

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:01:32 +0100, Tim Hall
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip brske levers>

Quoted message said:

And the levers go back to the shop tomorrow, touch wood.

Update. I took the levers back during the week. The bloke behind the
counter tried to tell me that they would work. I explained how the
leverage would be wrong. He tried to tell me that the reach adjusting
screw would adjust the lever. I told him he didn't understand, I'd
been sold the wrong levers and wanted the right ones. He said I'd have
to speak to the manager and went off in a sulk.

The manager eventually appeared and after some discuission where I
used the killer phrase "I've been doing some research on the internet"
he agreed. Bit of a palaver though. This in a town with an Evans in
the same road and Evans warehouse up the road.

Anyway, the levers are fitted now awaiting the seal of approval from
the daughter concerned.

Tim