Off topic: overtraining

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Hi,

I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.

Google is your friend.
http://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=overtraining+symptoms gets over 14,000
hits.

Quoted message said:

Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur
when one suffers from serious overtraining?

Mild leg soreness, general achiness
Pain in muscles & joints
Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
Sudden drop in ability to run 'normal' distance or times
Insomnia
Headaches
Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
Insatiable thirst, dehydration
Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat, etc.

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"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to

ask it.

Quoted message said:

Google is your friend.
http://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=overtraining+symptoms gets

over 14,000

Quoted message said:

hits.

Quoted message said:

Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that

occur

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when one suffers from serious overtraining?

Mild leg soreness, general achiness
Pain in muscles & joints
Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
Sudden drop in ability to run 'normal' distance or times
Insomnia
Headaches
Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
Insatiable thirst, dehydration
Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat,

etc.

No social life, angry spouse or significant other, messy home,
weed-filled garden, dog does not recognize you. -- Jay Beattie.

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Derk said:

Hi,

I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.

rec.bicycles.racing ?

Okay, you can stop laughing now.

Quoted message said:

Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur when one
suffers from serious overtraining?

_ The short answer is no. Everyone is different and has different
manifestations. Probably the most common is a chronic cough or
cold, since your immune system is weakened. Sleeplessness and
depression are also common.

Generally, if you think you're overtraining, you probably are and
the sooner you rest the faster you'll recover. One day or a week
off is not going to make you slower, it might make you a lot
faster. Once you get beyond a certain point, learning when to
rest is the hardest thing. Serious training is an addiction, the
trick is to learn when the addiction is helping you and when it
isn't. A coach can help a lot with this.

_ Booker C. Bense

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"Booker C. Bense"
<[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

Generally, if you think you're overtraining, you probably are and

In fact, most people don't know the difference between overtraining and
merely having an off day. It's harder than they think to genuinely be
overtraining. The symptoms have to persist over an extended period of about
a fortnight. Overtraining can be quite serious.

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Surprised no one mentioned elevated heart rate. I have had OT only once and the HR of 85 beats/minute at night frightened me. I now know what it feels like and back off before tachycardia sets in. Just log your resting HR (morning is best) and if it jumpsmore than 10 BPM, back off!

Quoted message said:

I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.

Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur when
one
suffers from serious overtraining?

TIA, Derk

In addition to the answers already provided, I think another important,
though not technically "physical" phenomenon, is plain & simple boredom. If
it's not fun and/or interesting, it's no better than a bad job. Riding a
bike should never fit into that category (unless you're a pro making a whole
lot of money, maybe... but even then, what have a bad job instead of a good
one?).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

Weisse Luft said:

Surprised no one mentioned elevated heart rate.

That's elevated *resting* heart rate. In contrast, while exercising,
you might notice a decrease in heart rate for a given perceived
effort. For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

Michael Fuhr said:

For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

That's exactly what I'm experiencing.

I haven't found a site yet, that lists *ALL* possible symptoms. Most sites
just the most frequently occuring ones.

Thank you all.

Derk

Derk said:

Michael Fuhr said:

For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

That's exactly what I'm experiencing.

I haven't found a site yet, that lists *ALL* possible symptoms. Most sites
just the most frequently occuring ones.

"There is no such thing as overtraining. There is only undereating,
undersleeping, and failure of will."
-The Barbarian Brothers

Expecting a list of *all* possible symptoms is unrealistic: there might
be subtle physiological or psychological reactions to overtraining that
haven't even been identified yet or that are more likely indicators of
other problems. That being said, here are lists of symptoms from
several different sources:

From _High-Performance Cycling_, Asker E. Jeukendrup, editor, p. 17:

* Unexplained underperformance
* Prolonged recovery
* Reduced maximal heart rate
* Reduced maximal blood lactate concentration
* Increased sleeping heart rate
* Excessive fatigue
* "Heavy" muscles
* Upper respiratory tract infections or other frequently recurring
infections, such as colds
* Increased susceptibility to illnesses and allergies
* Sleep disturbances
* Changes in appetite
* Depression
* Loss of competitive drive
* Increased anxiety and irritation
* Decreased ability to narrow concentration

From _Serious Cycling_, 2nd ed., Edmund R. Burke, p. 229:

Emotional and behavioral changes:
* Loss of enthusiasm and drive; generalized apathy
* Loss of joy in, and thirst for, competition
* Desire to quit
* Lethargy, listlessness, tiredness
* Feeling peevish; easily irritated, anxious, ill-humored, bored
* Inability to concentrate at work; poor academic performance
* Changes in sleeping patterns; insomnia; sleep does not refresh
* Loss of appetite
* Loss of libido
* Poor coordination; general clumsiness
* Increased fluid intake at night; feeling thirsty

Physical Changes:
* Impaired physical performance; inability to complete training
* Gradual weight loss
* Looks drawn, sallow, and dejected
* Early morning heart rate increases by more than 5 beats per minute;
abnormal rise in standing heart rate and during and after a standard
workout; slower recovery in heart rate after exertion
* Heavy-leggedness; sluggishness that persists 24 hours or more after
a workout
* Muscle and joint pains; persistent muscle soreness from session to
session
* Swelling of lymph glands
* Gastrointestinal disturbances, in particular diarrhea
* Increased susceptibility to infections, allergies, headache
* Minor scratches heal slowly
* In women, loss of menstruation (amenorrhea)

From _The Cyclist's Training Bible_, 2nd ed., by Joe Friel, pp 213-14:

Behavioral indicators
* Apathy
* Lethargy
* Depression
* Poor concentration
* Sleep pattern changes
* Irritability
* Decreased libido
* Clumsiness
* Increased thirst
* Sluggishness
* Craving for sugar

Physical indicators
* Reduced performance
* Weight change
* Morning heart rate change
* Muscle soreness
* Swollen lymph glands
* Diarrhea
* Injury
* Infection
* Amenorrhea
* Decreased exercise heart rate
* Slow-healing cuts

Blood marker indicators -- significant decreases in any of the following:
* albumin
* ammonium
* ferritin
* free fatty acids
* glycerin
* hemoglobin
* iron
* LDL cholesterol
* leukocytes
* magnesium
* triglycerides
* VLDL cholesterol

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

Thank you very much, Michael.

I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
muscles: my legs hurt.

So I wondered if I could be suffering from overtraining. According to what I
read that could easily be the case. I just can't believe that 2 hours of
cycling/day could lead to overtraining, whilst pro riders train for 6-8
hours/day without this problem.

I did some slow rides the last 2 days and cycling went a lot better today.
If I really am overtrained I'll be forced to do some more slow cycling from
time to time....

Did any of you ever do the Rusko test?

Greets, Derk

Derk said:

I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
muscles: my legs hurt.

If you just came back from France, you might have some travel
induced fatigue. Long travel wipes me out for a few days.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Derk said:

I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from
France, where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here,
however, I noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually
and that after training my recovery was slower. I also felt small
climbs in the upper leg muscles: my legs hurt.

If you just came back from France, you might have some travel
induced fatigue. Long travel wipes me out for a few days.

Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

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DRS said:

Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

Since I live in Holland I travel by car: a 12 hour drive.

Greets, Derk

By the way: while in France, I had my bike serviced by an ex Pro rider and
former TdF mechanic. In his shop I met Pascal Chanteur who just ended his
career as a pro-rider.

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

DRS said:

Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

Since I live in Holland I travel by car: a 12 hour drive.

LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is only about
5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

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DRS said:

LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is only
about 5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

That's exactly right: from the North of Holland to the South of France is
about 1200 km's.

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

DRS said:

LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is
only about 5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

That's exactly right: from the North of Holland to the South of
France is about 1200 km's.

Do you take a caravan? :-)

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Derk said:

I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
muscles: my legs hurt.

Those sound like symptoms of inadequate recovery, which can lead
to overtraining if not addressed. As several people mentioned, an
elevated resting heart rate is another easily-detected indicator.
I take my heart rate every morning as soon as I awaken and before
I get out of bed; if it's more than 3-4 beats higher than the day
before then I usually ride short and easy, or perhaps even take the
day off.

Quoted message said:

So I wondered if I could be suffering from overtraining. According to what I
read that could easily be the case. I just can't believe that 2 hours of
cycling/day could lead to overtraining, whilst pro riders train for 6-8
hours/day without this problem.

Pros are almost certainly in far better condition than you are and
their bodies are better able to handle the work load; they also
have trainers and doctors whose job is to keep them fit. I don't
know how common it is, but I know of one top pro who has blood work
done regularly, even as often as daily during the final training
for a major event (a friend of mine is a sports physiologist who
has tested this particular rider for years).

Volume of training alone doesn't say much -- intensity also has to
be taken into account. A 2-hour interval session might be more
taxing on your body than a 6-hour endurance ride.

Quoted message said:

I did some slow rides the last 2 days and cycling went a lot better today.
If I really am overtrained I'll be forced to do some more slow cycling from
time to time....

Don't think of recovery rides as something you're "forced" to do --
enjoy them as a time to relax and "take your bike for a walk," as
one of my friends puts it.

Recovery is important: if you don't give your body the rest it needs
to build itself up then you'll just end up tearing it down. Perhaps
you need to add more easy rides to your regular schedule -- what are
you doing for those 2 hours each day?

Some people think that the only way to exercise is to work as hard
as you can all the time; they don't understand or appreciate the
need for rest. Their performance suffers so they train harder,
which makes their performance even worse so they train even harder,
and so on. They end up digging themselves into a hole so deep that
it can take months to recover.

Quoted message said:

Did any of you ever do the Rusko test?

I haven't used the exact protocol, but in addition to taking my
heart rate every morning before I get out of bed, I usually look
at it when I put on my HRM as I'm getting ready to ride. If it's
higher than usual then that tells me I might need to take it easy
that day.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

DRS said:

Do you take a caravan? :-)

No I don't. Since this year there are MANY policemen checking speed with
laser guns and many radar cameras were installed. Most people think they
can drive as fast as they want to, but I have seen that license plates are
scanned automatically and license numbers are shown on the motorway with
the mention that "licence number so and so has been caught speeding".

Speeding tickets are a sure way to throw away a big chunk of your holiday
budget in France. I'd rather spend that on my bike.

BtW: 1150 km's in 12 hours is not that bad if you stop from time to time to
buy petrol, eat something and don't forget: one has to drive a.o. through
Antwerp (Brussels) and Paris.

Greets, Derk