Creatine

Keith Alexander® said:

I see no traffic on this.

Is it a banned substance?

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

In article <[email hidden]>, Stewart Fleming

Quoted message said:

Keith Alexander® said:

I see no traffic on this.

Is it a banned substance?

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

I assume you're joking. If you're not, the possible benefits of
creatine have virtually nothing to do with any benefit from nandralone
or any other anabolic steroid.

-WG

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Stewart Fleming

Quoted message said:

Keith Alexander® said:

I see no traffic on this.

Is it a banned substance?

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

I assume you're joking. If you're not, the possible benefits of
creatine have virtually nothing to do with any benefit from nandralone
or any other anabolic steroid.

Kinda...my original comment was a dig at some British sprinters who
blamed nandrolone tests on contaminated supplements, including creatine:

"Another possible explanation, often cited by athletes caught with
positive tests, is that the nandrolone in their system arose from the
use of protein milkshakes and the amino acid creatine, which are
perfectly legal and used as dietary supplements to increase weight. But
it is difficult to see how nandrolone could be produced from the benign
components of these substances, unless they had been accidentally or
deliberately contaminated. Subsequent testing, however, ruled out any
deliberate contamination.

A much more likely theory has recently emerged from the results of a
preliminary investigation at Aberdeen University. The findings are that
dietary supplements themselves are harmless and produce no increased
levels of nandrolone. Exercise alone, too, doesn't cause any problems.
But a combination of both dietary supplements (none of which contain a
banned substance) and exercise, can result in a positive nandrolone
test. The reason for this is still unclear, but one theory is that there
is a link between heavy training, the dehydration that goes with it, and
their effects upon the components of high protein diets. Until more work
is done, however, the 'nandrolone mystery' goes on..."
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nandrolone/nandh.htm

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic steroid.

*** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
a creatine routine during the racing season?

---
k e i t h a l e x a n d e r
http://www.nootrope.net
http://www.modernamerican.com
aim: nootrope9 element

- - e n d t r a n s m i s s i o n - -

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Alexander® keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net said:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic steroid.

*** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, Stewart Fleming

Quoted message said:

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Stewart Fleming

Quoted message said:

Keith Alexander® wrote:

>I see no traffic on this.
>
>Is it a banned substance?

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

I assume you're joking. If you're not, the possible benefits of
creatine have virtually nothing to do with any benefit from nandralone
or any other anabolic steroid.

Kinda...my original comment was a dig at some British sprinters who
blamed nandrolone tests on contaminated supplements, including creatine:

"Another possible explanation, often cited by athletes caught with
positive tests, is that the nandrolone in their system arose from the
use of protein milkshakes and the amino acid creatine, which are
perfectly legal and used as dietary supplements to increase weight. But
it is difficult to see how nandrolone could be produced from the benign
components of these substances, unless they had been accidentally or
deliberately contaminated. Subsequent testing, however, ruled out any
deliberate contamination.

A much more likely theory has recently emerged from the results of a
preliminary investigation at Aberdeen University. The findings are that
dietary supplements themselves are harmless and produce no increased
levels of nandrolone. Exercise alone, too, doesn't cause any problems.
But a combination of both dietary supplements (none of which contain a
banned substance) and exercise, can result in a positive nandrolone
test. The reason for this is still unclear, but one theory is that there
is a link between heavy training, the dehydration that goes with it, and
their effects upon the components of high protein diets. Until more work
is done, however, the 'nandrolone mystery' goes on..."
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nandrolone/nandh.htm

That's quite a theory. What I read, and think is more plausible is that
companies manufacturing supplements also processed the androstenedione
supplements that Mark McGuire became famous for. The vestibules or
containers of "legal" supplements were contaminated by leftovers from
making andro.

It was several months after the rush to try andro that it was
discovered (or at least became public knowledge) that use of andro will
cause a positive test for nandrolone, and to make it worse, the test
could find traces of nandro for up to a year after it was ingested.

So you had a whole bunch of athletes who either ate stuff that was
contaminated by andro and/or a lot of athletes who tried andro and
didn't know it was banned (or would be banned) at the time, and during
the following year lots of them got nabbed by a test.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Alexander® keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net said:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic steroid.

*** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

Not to mention the fact that your body makes 1-1.5 g/d (if you don't
otherwise eat/ingest much, that is).

That said, if there were a chance that I'd be drug-tested, I wouldn't take
creatine, for fear that it might be contaminated.

Andy Coggan

Andy Coggan said:

I wouldn't take creatine, for fear that it might be contaminated.

Thank you.

---
k e i t h a l e x a n d e r
http://www.nootrope.net
http://www.modernamerican.com
aim: nootrope9 element

- - e n d t r a n s m i s s i o n - -

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Alexander® keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net said:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic steroid.

*** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Kenny

warren said:

Stewart Fleming said:

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

I assume you're joking. If you're not, the possible benefits of
creatine have virtually nothing to do with any benefit from nandralone
or any other anabolic steroid.

Jeff was supposed to provide an easy-to-remember link to this story,
wasn't he?

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Alexander® keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net said:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
>to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic steroid.

*** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds. After an effort that uses creatine
phosphate your available stores will be replenished in around 1-2
minutes, depending on how much creatine is still available.

Try a google on "creatine phosphate energy".

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds.

You mean "is not used exclusively" (obviously you must, since no energy
"system" operates indendently of the others). IOW, Kenny is correct in
stating that creatine phosphate loading can increase average power during
efforts lasting several minutes. Unfortunately, it does come at a price,
i.e., increased body mass...and at least in my experience, it's a zero-sum
game.

Andy Coggan

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
> In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
> Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> > >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >
> > *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> > a creatine routine during the racing season?
>
> What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
> significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds.

You mean "is not used exclusively" (obviously you must, since no energy
"system" operates indendently of the others).

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

IOW, Kenny is correct in

Quoted message said:

stating that creatine phosphate loading can increase average power during
efforts lasting several minutes.

If CP is even needed for the effort, but climbing a hill for a minute or so?
I don't think taking CM will help him much and as you say below, the extra
water retained is worse than any help he might get from CM.

Unfortunately, it does come at a price,

Quoted message said:

i.e., increased body mass...and at least in my experience, it's a zero-sum
game.

If body mass and/or gravity is a significant factor, yes. I can't see why
somebody other than a sprinter would want to use CM and even then it's a
small factor compared to training and natural ability.

-WG

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
> In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
> Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> > >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >
> > *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> > a creatine routine during the racing season?
>
> What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
> significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds.

You mean "is not used exclusively" (obviously you must, since no energy
"system" operates indendently of the others). IOW, Kenny is correct in
stating that creatine phosphate loading can increase average power during
efforts lasting several minutes. Unfortunately, it does come at a price,
i.e., increased body mass...and at least in my experience, it's a zero-sum
game.

Andy Coggan

There are quite a few small studies that show that it is particularly
beneficial for female athletes, with little or no weight gain.

Cat

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> a creatine routine during the racing season?

What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds. After an effort that uses creatine
phosphate your available stores will be replenished in around 1-2
minutes, depending on how much creatine is still available.

Try a google on "creatine phosphate energy".

-WG

Taking creatine just before a race or an event, even something like the
match sprint will not do you any good. Creatine's benefits come from
increasing the work one may do during training. Classic example is in
weightlifting where lifters on creatine will be able to lift more reps,
getting more training stimulus and thus getting benefit.

Only if someone is severly creatine depleted could it even help in just
before exercise and even then it would be questionnable. (Female gymnasts
benefit greatly from creatine supplementation at least in one case I am
familiar with).

"Cat Dailey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:<[email hidden]>...
> > In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
> > Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> > > >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

> > >
> > > *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> > > a creatine routine during the racing season?
> >
> > What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
> > significant amounts of it in fish and meat.
>
> And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3

minutes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
> well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
> wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols.

Because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
> combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds.

You mean "is not used exclusively" (obviously you must, since no energy
"system" operates indendently of the others). IOW, Kenny is correct in
stating that creatine phosphate loading can increase average power

during

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

efforts lasting several minutes. Unfortunately, it does come at a price,
i.e., increased body mass...and at least in my experience, it's a

zero-sum

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

game.

Andy Coggan

There are quite a few small studies that show that it is particularly
beneficial for female athletes, with little or no weight gain.

Cat

Female athletes may not eat much meat or even enough energy intake. In that
case the supplement may just get them back to "normal" levels. I know of
one specific case of several female athletes whose creatine stores were
quite low. These gymnasts benefited greatly from creatine and a few other
nutritional interventions mainly just to get their energy intake up.

Creatine by itself works just fine. There are probably hundreds of studies
showing this.

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

warren said:

Stewart Fleming said:

No, but the nandrolone you (allegedly) have to take in combination for
it to do any good IS a banned substance...

I assume you're joking. If you're not, the possible benefits of
creatine have virtually nothing to do with any benefit from nandralone
or any other anabolic steroid.

Jeff was supposed to provide an easy-to-remember link to this story,
wasn't he?

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny

Quoted message said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
> In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
> Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> > >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >
> > *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> > a creatine routine during the racing season?
>
> What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
> significant amounts of it in fish and meat.

And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3 minutes.
Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols. Because
the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after a
while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available when
needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds. After an effort that uses creatine
phosphate your available stores will be replenished in around 1-2
minutes, depending on how much creatine is still available.

Try a google on "creatine phosphate energy".

-WG

Taking creatine just before a race or an event, even something like the
match sprint will not do you any good. Creatine's benefits come from
increasing the work one may do during training. Classic example is in
weightlifting where lifters on creatine will be able to lift more reps,
getting more training stimulus and thus getting benefit.

I'm not sure where you get the impresssion I was suggesting that
creatine was effective if taken right before exercise. On at least two
occasions I've told people they were wasting their time taking liquid
creatine right before an event.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Sam

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kenny
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:<[email hidden]>...
> > In article <[email hidden]>, Keith
> > Alexander® <keith@REMOVE!nootrope.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:23:46 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >the possible benefits of creatine have virtually nothing
> > > >to do with any benefit from nandralone or any other anabolic

steroid.

Quoted message said:

> > >
> > > *** Would anyone here personally risk continuing
> > > a creatine routine during the racing season?
> >
> > What is the risk? Creatine isn't a banned substance. You'll find
> > significant amounts of it in fish and meat.
>
> And it works quite well for short, intense efforts of like 3

minutes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Though it makes you gain some weight, it really improves riding the
> well known short climbs in Flanders. i really was amazed. But i
> wouldn't take creatine when i plan to climb some frenc cols.

Because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the effect would be rather negative then positive. And creatine in
> combination with the heat over there, results in muscle cramps after

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> while (especially when you don't drink enough).

Ingesting creatine monohydrate will probably add to your stores of
creatine phosphate, or help make more creatine phosphate available

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

needed. The creatine phosphate energy cycle lasts, or your readily
available creatine is depleted... in less than 20 seconds.

IOW, creatine is not used for efforts longer than 20 seconds, and more
likely less than 15 seconds. After an effort that uses creatine
phosphate your available stores will be replenished in around 1-2
minutes, depending on how much creatine is still available.

Try a google on "creatine phosphate energy".

-WG

Taking creatine just before a race or an event, even something like the
match sprint will not do you any good. Creatine's benefits come from
increasing the work one may do during training. Classic example is in
weightlifting where lifters on creatine will be able to lift more reps,
getting more training stimulus and thus getting benefit.

I'm not sure where you get the impresssion I was suggesting that
creatine was effective if taken right before exercise. On at least two
occasions I've told people they were wasting their time taking liquid
creatine right before an event.

-WG

The IOW paragraph led me along those lines, but you are correct in that you
are not recommending this. As much as anything else, my response was an
elaboration of the creatine issue.

Also, if one does a really hard effort it takes more like 5 minutes for the
CP system to get restored to about 95%.