Near Death Experience :(

"Succorso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...
What I realised afterwards was, of course, I should have been riding in
the Primary position in order to discourage any outrageously stupid
overtaking manoeuvre - but I find riding in that position amongst fast
moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers....

I tend to be varying my position depending on the road conditions - going
round a tight left hand bend you need to be well out so you are not hidden
from following traffic, but then you might be able to move in a bit if there
are cars patiently waiting to overtake once the road straightens again.
Another danger on country roads is oncoming overtaking traffic without any
traffic going the same way as you - here you need to be in the centre of
your lane to discourage oncoming traffic from overtaking who might not see
you if you are near the edge.

In news:[email hidden],
Succorso <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards,
after much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

It was his fault, but perhaps you could have stopped him doing it.

I can't advise as to whether you were far enough out or not. Some people
take secondary position to mean about 10cm out, others 80cm. Depends on the
width of the road, too.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Succorso <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards,
after much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

It was his fault, but perhaps you could have stopped him doing it.

I can't advise as to whether you were far enough out or not. Some people
take secondary position to mean about 10cm out, others 80cm. Depends on the
width of the road, too.

A

To me, Secondary position is anywhere in the left hand 50% of the left
hand side of the road - if that makes sense. My Primary position is in
the centre, or perhaps slightly to the right of centre, of the left hand
side of the road.

In this instance, the road was approx 3 or 4m wide.

--
Chris

Succorso said:

In this instance, the road was approx 3 or 4m wide.

Altogether? or your side of it?

I'd be in secondary position if my half was more than about 3.7m wide
- but would move out in good time if there might be a bus or HGV
behind me. {That would include on bends - you can always move in again
if something narrower shows up).

Colin McKenzie

"Succorso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards, after
much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

No. Definately not your fault Chris. Hope the underpants scrub up ok 🙂

Quoted message said:

It was a classic "pinch" - end of a long straight on a narrowish country
road, approaching a lefthand bend - I was in the Secondary position. BMW
comes screaming up behind and commits to overtaking me, just as a Range
Rover comes round the bend towards us. BMW driver doesn't want to become a
bonnet ornament on the 2 ton 4x4 (with which he probably has a closing
velocity of 120ish mph) so the cyclist is expendable. Thankfully on this
occasion I was spared; his wing mirror was only a couple of inches from my
handlebars (I would imagine he was still doing at least 60mph as he went
past) and the bow wave almost pitched me into the hedge - but I lived to
ride another day.

I was too busy performing the Internationally Recognised Hand Gesture for
"w@nker" to have the presence of mind to memorise the number, otherwise I
might have posted details here. Anyway, it was a silver 5 series estate.

What I realised afterwards was, of course, I should have been riding in
the Primary position in order to discourage any outrageously stupid
overtaking manoeuvre - but I find riding in that position amongst fast
moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it before,
and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Is there a right answer to this, or is it just one of those things us
lesser mortals have to endure?

--
Chris

I find riding in that position amongst fast

Quoted message said:

moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Is there a right answer to this, or is it just one of those things us
lesser mortals have to endure?

Get yelled at, it doesn't hurt as much as death.
Next car I get, I'm going to insist on having one of those "See Round Blind
Corners" devices that BMWs and Volvos have. Presumably it's something to do
with GPS technology?
--

Martin Bulmer

On 27/9/04 12:01 am, in article [email hidden], "Martin

Bulmer said:

I find riding in that position amongst fast

Quoted message said:

moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Is there a right answer to this, or is it just one of those things us
lesser mortals have to endure?

Get yelled at, it doesn't hurt as much as death.
Next car I get, I'm going to insist on having one of those "See Round Blind
Corners" devices that BMWs and Volvos have. Presumably it's something to do
with GPS technology?

It was the driver this morning who didn't look and pulled out in front of me
who got an earful.

points his head in my general direction (I will not say looks) and then
proceeds to amble out in front of me. I do my usual 'Tarzan greased vine'
shout and teh next thing he sees is me waving fingers in his wing mirror in
a 'tut tut naughty boy' manner. Objects in your mirror are closer than they
appear.

Suitable apologetic wave and hopefully he'll use his eyes next time. Didn't
even have the 'out of the sun' excuse.

...d

Quoted message said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards, after
much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

No - not your fault at all. It is clearly the responsiblity of the person doing
the overtaking that he/she should only overtake when it is safe to do so. It
was the fault of the Bloody Motorised [censored] that he/she overtook when it was
not safe. Whewn cycling, we can help minimise the risk to our safety by riding
in the primary position when we feel it necessary, but it is *not* the fault of
the cyclist/pedestrian/rider/motorist when another person overtakes when it is
not safe to do so.

It's one of the things about our narrow lanes, Chris, that we have to be wary
of - local car drivers who think because they've driven the lane before it
becomes their own personalised rally stage when they get behind the wheel of
their vehicle. It's not our fault that they are mindless morons.

You occurance didn't happen to take place on the roads to & from Litcham did
it? There's a couple of Bloody Motorised [censored] who seem to think they own
those roads and have the right to drive along the narrow lanes at well above
the speed limit - I remember them from when I used to cycle with Nathan to &
from Litcham High.

Glad you are okay by the way.

Cheers, helen s

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Quoted message said:

Altogether? or your side of it?

The roads around where Chris lives (me too) are often only that wide (3-4m) in
total. We do live in The Back End Of Beyond - well Chris slightly less so as he
has broadband, and I don't ;-)

The other night I was driving on the road between Shipdham & Bradenham - a
narrow country lane going to a very narrow country lane. The speed of some of
the oncoming traffic was appalling - easily 60mph and going by with millimetres
between my wing mirror and theirs. The roads may have a 60mph speed limit, but
there are totally unsuitable to be driven on at that speed for the most part,
due to narrowness, amount of bends, hedges along the sides obscuring
visibility. But never let that get in the way of too many a driver.

Cheers, helen s

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dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards, after
much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

No - not your fault at all. It is clearly the responsiblity of the person doing
the overtaking that he/she should only overtake when it is safe to do so. It
was the fault of the Bloody Motorised [censored] that he/she overtook when it was
not safe. Whewn cycling, we can help minimise the risk to our safety by riding
in the primary position when we feel it necessary, but it is *not* the fault of
the cyclist/pedestrian/rider/motorist when another person overtakes when it is
not safe to do so.

Thanks Helen - no, it happened on the road that passes Pickenham Hall,
on the way to Hilborough - just before the crossroads where you turn
left into Great Cressingham.

However, the roads into Litcham do suffer the same issues - because
unless we cycle on the A47 (neither of us are *that* mad) we are
inevitably on roads < 4m wide, often a lot less, and very bendy.

I made sure I stuck out in the road much more this morning, on my way
over to Swaffham; but it didn't seem to help much. You are right -
people drive at 60 because that's the limit (often over that I suspect)
- never mind whether it's appropriate for the road (it hardly ever is
around here) or the road conditions.
Still not really sure what the answer is though. Even if it's entirely
the fault of the drivers - that's no consolation when you get swiped.

Perhaps we should attach large, cardboard cutout pictures of a police
car, or tractor maybe to the back of our bikes.

--
Chris

"Martin Bulmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I find riding in that position amongst fast

Quoted message said:

moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Is there a right answer to this, or is it just one of those things us
lesser mortals have to endure?

Get yelled at, it doesn't hurt as much as death.
Next car I get, I'm going to insist on having one of those "See Round Blind
Corners" devices that BMWs and Volvos have. Presumably it's something to do
with GPS technology?

Yes. I'd go with the get yelled at position too. I'd go about 2/3 of
the way from the kerb to the centre line. The message to traffic
approaching from behind should be they are only getting past by going
fully onto the oncoming lane.
Amazingly enough they still sometimes do it. Risking a head on
collision and death rather than be held up by a cyclist for 10
seconds. But thats some drivers for you.
Iain
Iain

in message <[email hidden]>, Succorso

(') said:

[censored]-In-A-BMW almost put an end to me earlier on - but afterwards,
after much reflection, I decided it was most likely my fault 🙁

Sympathy.

Quoted message said:

What I realised afterwards was, of course, I should have been riding
in the Primary position in order to discourage any outrageously stupid
overtaking manoeuvre - but I find riding in that position amongst fast
moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Stay in the primary position and hold the lane. Better to be yelled at
than killed, IMO. If any directly confront you, offer, politely, to
escort them to the nearest police station to discuss their driving
skills and knowledge of the Highway Code.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If Python is executable pseudocode,
;; then Perl is executable line noise
-- seen on Slashdot.

in message <[email hidden]>, Martin Bulmer

(') said:

I find riding in that position amongst fast

Quoted message said:

moving traffic on narrow roads, quite intimidating. I've tried it
before, and tend to get yelled at a lot by drivers.

Is there a right answer to this, or is it just one of those things us
lesser mortals have to endure?

Get yelled at, it doesn't hurt as much as death.
Next car I get, I'm going to insist on having one of those "See Round
Blind Corners" devices that BMWs and Volvos have. Presumably it's
something to do with GPS technology?

Don't joke.

In the toilets in a motorway services this weekend I was faced with
adverts for a device which not only included a radar detector but also
a GPS receiver with a database of all known speed camera sites.

I'm bloody amazed that such a thing is legal.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; this is not a .sig

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

The other night I was driving on the road between Shipdham & Bradenham - a
narrow country lane going to a very narrow country lane. The speed of some of
the oncoming traffic was appalling - easily 60mph and going by with millimetres
between my wing mirror and theirs. The roads may have a 60mph speed limit, but
there are totally unsuitable to be driven on at that speed for the most part,
due to narrowness, amount of bends, hedges along the sides obscuring
visibility. But never let that get in the way of too many a driver.

I use that road to take No 1 Daughter to college each day - only a
complete fool would attempt it at 60 - there can't be any straight
stretch of more than 200m, plus there are several hidden turnings, a
sharp bend prone to flooding, and some houses.

I've only cycled it a couple of times, and was very nervous both times -
the hedge on one side is raised up on a bank so there's nowhere to go if
you need a quick getaway - and the other side there's a ditch.

Once you get away from the Rat-Runs though - it's still a fantastic
county in which to cycle - don't want to paint too grim a picture 😉

--
Chris

Simon Brooke said:

In the toilets in a motorway services this weekend I was faced with
adverts for a device which not only included a radar detector but also
a GPS receiver with a database of all known speed camera sites.

It could almost be a useful safety-enhancing device if only it
included all the /other/ speed limits as well. Perhaps this could be
added as an optional extra: after all, new cameras can be erected in
places where there were none previously, so a truly useful speed
warning system should include the potentials as well as the actuals.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:07:00 +0100, Succorso <[email hidden]> ()

Quoted message said:

Perhaps we should attach large, cardboard cutout pictures of a police
car, or tractor maybe to the back of our bikes.

Fluoro yellow high-viz waistcoat with large blue letters on the back
reading "POLITE"should do the trick.
--
Matt K.
"Being a doormat gets you walked on."

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Don't joke.

In the toilets in a motorway services this weekend I was faced with
adverts for a device which not only included a radar detector but also
a GPS receiver with a database of all known speed camera sites.

I'm bloody amazed that such a thing is legal.

A friend has a GPS based routefinder which includes a database with
all UK speed camera sites. The database can be updated by users so any
place a mobile speed camera has been used or a police speed trap
operated tends to be in it.
On his last motorway trip from Scotland to the midlands he found
pretty much every overhead bridge activated a warning. So it's
overkill to a certain extent.
Iain

(iarocu) said:

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Don't joke.

In the toilets in a motorway services this weekend I was faced with
adverts for a device which not only included a radar detector but also
a GPS receiver with a database of all known speed camera sites.

I'm bloody amazed that such a thing is legal.

A friend has a GPS based routefinder which includes a database with
all UK speed camera sites. The database can be updated by users so any
place a mobile speed camera has been used or a police speed trap
operated tends to be in it.
On his last motorway trip from Scotland to the midlands he found
pretty much every overhead bridge activated a warning. So it's
overkill to a certain extent.

ITYM underkill

[email hidden] (iarocu) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On his last motorway trip from Scotland to the midlands he found
pretty much every overhead bridge activated a warning. So it's
overkill to a certain extent.

Cool, so all we need to do is get everyone here to submit new mobile camera
locations all over their local area. After a little while I'm sure we could
have every half-mile or so of the road network covered. This would either
make the device useless or slow users down permanently.

Graeme