Front wheel drive?!

On 19/9/04 9:50 pm, in article
[email hidden], "D.M.

Procida said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What? Why? And most of all, How?

It's rear wheel drive, you face backwards.. ;-)

...d

Quoted message said:

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What? Why? And most of all, How?

Most low-rider recumbents have FWD. It saves a lot of problems getting
the drive under the rider. I don't have one, but I have ridden one.
Seemed to work fine to me.

Oh. "How" Well because your legs are are in the way you can't turn
the front wheel very far anyway, so a 9-speed chain can cope. The only
one I've ridden was through the crowd at the Mildenhall Rally two years
ago, so low-speed manoeverability is not a problem.

Actually, if "Doug" of the 18-speed cheapo MTB is reading this: the
lowrider in question was a home-built, with an owner who had ridden it
to Mildenhall from Holland. When he saw I was interested he said "Try
it." And I jumped on and rode off out of sight.....

.... that's how I got to ride my first recumbent too (a Streetglider at
Reach Fair), and I've tried to return the favour to cycling or 'benting
newbies whenever I could.

Mike

Mike Causer said:

Most low-rider recumbents have FWD.

Some do, but ISTM more often they have the drive at the rear. The
Cannonical Examples of a Lowracer would be the Optima Baron, Challenge
Jester and M5 Low, and all have rear wheel drive.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

D.M. Procida <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What?

Toxy ZR (but you knew that).

Quoted message said:

Why?

Most weight on the driving and steering wheel.

Quoted message said:

And most of all, How?

The chain twists. Not the most elegant solution, but given the flimsiness
of today's chains this will work, after a fashion.

jtaylor said:

Quoted message said:

Why?

Quoted message said:

Most weight on the driving and steering wheel.

I doubt it. In fact one of the problems I've seen with FWD lowracers is
lack of traction up steep hills.

The main point, or so ISTM, is to keep the chainline as short as
possible as this increases drive efficiency and removes problem routing
the chain (bit lighter too). The catch is that the steering then either
involves the crank moving out of line with the rider or the chain moving
out of line with the crank, depending on what moves and what stays fixed
(chain seems to bend on the Toxy, on the "bend in the middle" Flevos the
crank doesn't move relative to the driven wheel, but the cranks move
relative to the rider, who actually takes advantage of this feature to
steer the bike. Or not...)

The *Really* fast stuff tends to be FWD, but of course it tends not to
have to go round awkward things like corners...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:50:26 +0100,
[email hidden] (D.M. Procida) wrote
(more or less):

Quoted message said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What? Why? And most of all, How?

Only this morning, I was reading of an all-wheel drive bicycle. Just
an upright. I'll try and get a URL for a photo, and the
manufacturer/model names.

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
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Euan said:

Only this morning, I was reading of an all-wheel drive bicycle.

Just

Quoted message said:

an upright. I'll try and get a URL for a photo, and the
manufacturer/model names.

I remember a photograph that Ben Kinetics took at one of the trade
shows. I think it was a mountain bike designed by Jeep, and some
amazing tale of shaft drive within the frame's tubes. I wasn't sure
if I believed it or not.

Becky

in message <[email hidden]>, Arellcat

(') said:

Euan said:

Only this morning, I was reading of an all-wheel drive bicycle.

Just

Quoted message said:

an upright. I'll try and get a URL for a photo, and the
manufacturer/model names.

I remember a photograph that Ben Kinetics took at one of the trade
shows. I think it was a mountain bike designed by Jeep, and some
amazing tale of shaft drive within the frame's tubes. I wasn't sure
if I believed it or not.

A number of such machines exist on the American market. Most (including
if I remember correctly the Jeep) use a flexible cable - like a car
speedometer cable, or the flexible extensions you can sometimes get for
power drills - to transmit torque from the rear hub to the front hub.
This has got to be abhominably inefficient, suffering from friction and
cable wind-up. I think that most of these bikes do not have a clutch,
so you can't switch it out.

The Christini uses a system of shafts inside the frame tubes to do the
torque transfer, and has a clutch so you can switch the front drive
off. The idea still doesn't impress me.
<URL:http://www.christini.com/bikes.php>

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

Gawnsoft said:

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:50:26 +0100,
[email hidden] (D.M. Procida) wrote
(more or less):

Quoted message said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What? Why? And most of all, How?

Only this morning, I was reading of an all-wheel drive bicycle. Just
an upright. I'll try and get a URL for a photo, and the
manufacturer/model names.

The current issue of Velo Vision has an article on a three-wheel-drive
recumbent trike from Russia :-

http://www.trikes.ru/en/english.phtml

--
Carol
"I was just being a little teapot. It's a bad habit of mine"
- Wyvern, Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jtaylor said:

Quoted message said:

Why?

Quoted message said:

Most weight on the driving and steering wheel.

I doubt it. In fact one of the problems I've seen with FWD lowracers is
lack of traction up steep hills.

"...and steering..."

Teryo sell a 2WD "upright" mountain bicycle in Japan. Pic ( in a Japanese article ) here ..

http://koba0005.me.kagu.sut.ac.jp/article/2004_8_2WD.jpg

Normal derailleur chain drive to rear, then a single shaft drive from a rear axle LHS mounted gear up to a fork-mounted external gear system, which via another shaft transfers power to a gear on the front RHS axle.

Frame is given as #7005 Alloy. V brake rear, disc brake front. List is 210,000 yen, about 2000 US dollars.

JJ

"Arellcat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Euan said:

Only this morning, I was reading of an all-wheel drive bicycle.

Just

Quoted message said:

an upright. I'll try and get a URL for a photo, and the
manufacturer/model names.

I remember a photograph that Ben Kinetics took at one of the trade
shows. I think it was a mountain bike designed by Jeep, and some
amazing tale of shaft drive within the frame's tubes. I wasn't sure
if I believed it or not.

I've also read about similar 2-wheel drive bikes; the one I'm thinking
of used flexible drives based on those used in car speedometers, etc.
to transmit drive to the front wheel, the rear being a conventional
chain 'n' sprockets affair.

David E. Belcher

In article <1gkdr8y.1udkfog1uaisz2N%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-
juice.co.uk>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

This is clearly a bicyle with front wheel drive:

<http://www.toxy.de/shop_en/imagesLarge/14100.jpg>.

What? Why? And most of all, How?

Other's have answered the questions to a greater or lesser extent, so
here is my opinion based on a test ride.

1) Unless you have exceptionally long legs (At 6' with average
proportions, I wouldn't have said I was short!) or exceptionally short
feet, you _will_ suffer from heel strike on the derailleur! This causes
a gear change every pedal revolution and will rapidly drive you nuts.
2) Being that low to the ground is fun and the traction over rough road
surfaces is fantastic. The result is that you will hammer it into the
corners without worrying about whether it'll make it.
3) If you have long hair, tuck it behind your back otherwise it may snag
on the rear wheel! :-(

I think that the Rohloff version would be very cool, but the sight of a
chain twisting like that is simply distressing. While public is
definately to the contrary, I think low-racers are better as LWB or
trikes.

Despite my gripes, it was good fun. But I had more fun on the Kettweisel
and Trice Monster (Gotta get my mind off that trike!).

Jon

Jon Senior said:

1) Unless you have exceptionally long legs (At 6' with average
proportions, I wouldn't have said I was short!) or exceptionally short
feet, you _will_ suffer from heel strike on the derailleur!

Strange. You might try shorter cranks, a road bike derailleur with short
cage, or one of those:
http://www.zoxbikes.com/main/Zox_tief.jpg

Guenther

Guenther Schwarz [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Strange. You might try shorter cranks,

Might have done it actually. Sadly I don't carry a set otherwise I'd
have asked Ben if I could swap them over.

Quoted message said:

a road bike derailleur with short
cage,

Already running a short cage 105.

Quoted message said:

or one of those:
http://www.zoxbikes.com/main/Zox_tief.jpg

The point was the low-racer. The bike itself I had no problem with and
it handled like a dream otherwise. I doubt it was an unsurmountable
problem, but it did make me think twice about FWD.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Guenther Schwarz [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or one of those:
http://www.zoxbikes.com/main/Zox_tief.jpg

The point was the low-racer.

Take it as a stilted lowracer :-)
The frontal area is not that much bigger.

Quoted message said:

I doubt it was an unsurmountable
problem, but it did make me think twice about FWD.

It really depends on what kind of bike you are looking for. Do not blame a
FWD bike if it handles badly off road or when trying to climb nasty hills
with full camping gear and trailer. These bikes are not made for such
applications. Properly set up they work very nice indeed as fast and
comfortable light tourers or racing bikes. My first longer ride was on
snow, mind. I felt a little uncomfortable, but had no reason to do so.

Guenther

Guenther Schwarz [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Take it as a stilted lowracer :-)
The frontal area is not that much bigger.

I'm planning a low-racer project and I'm thinking _really_ low.

Quoted message said:

It really depends on what kind of bike you are looking for. Do not blame a
FWD bike if it handles badly off road or when trying to climb nasty hills
with full camping gear and trailer. These bikes are not made for such
applications. Properly set up they work very nice indeed as fast and
comfortable light tourers or racing bikes. My first longer ride was on
snow, mind. I felt a little uncomfortable, but had no reason to do so.

I agree that it was fast and fun (And certainly put the lie to the
"bents don't climb" myth!). If it hadn't been for the issue of the
derailleur I'd have started saving for one!

Jon

Jon Senior said:

If it hadn't been for the issue of the
derailleur I'd have started saving for one!

That will be easily solved by properly adjusting the bike for you. So
start your savings plan and have a close look at the ZOX lowracer also.
Not just because I like to support local industry, but because these a
real fun too.

Guenther

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk ('') said:

Guenther Schwarz [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Take it as a stilted lowracer :-)
The frontal area is not that much bigger.

I'm planning a low-racer project and I'm thinking _really_ low.

There's an old Edinburgh joke about a gentleman and his dachshund up one
of the closes in the Old Town. You don't want to go there.

Oh, I see you already have...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.