casagrande

gym gravity said:

where is that link to the French list of all time doping offences?

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

Quoted message said:

Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

VN:

"Italian star Francesco Casagrande (Lampre) and Spanish rider Carlos
Golbano (Paternina-Costa de Almería) won't be starting the Vuelta a
España on Saturday after UCI blood tests conducted Wednesday evening
revealed the pair "unfit" to start."

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are giving
him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period before another
test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be due to natural
causes?
--
Marty

Ewoud Dronkert said:

gym gravity said:

where is that link to the French list of all time doping offences?

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

Quoted message said:

Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens
5 Davy
5 Desbiens
5 Gaumont
5 Merckx
5 Thurau
5 Van Geneugden
4 Altig
4 Andersen
4 Bortolami
4 Boyer
4 Brochard
4 Gimondi
4 Hamburger
4 Laurent
4 Motta
4 Pantani
4 Virenque
4 Zootemelk
4 Zulle
3 Aimar
3 Bouvard
3 Bugno
3 Collinelli
3 Edwards
3 Fois
3 Godefroot
3 Guimard
3 Herve
3 Karstens
3 Lino
3 Moreau
3 Pingeon
3 Roux
3 Sassone
3 Simoni
3 Theilliere
3 Theunisse
3 Thevenet
3 Tinazzi
3 Vandenbroucke
3 Vandenbroucke

Marty said:

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are giving
him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period before another
test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be due to natural
causes?

Yes, it is possible that there are natural causes.

JT.

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Marty said:

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

VN:

"Italian star Francesco Casagrande (Lampre) and Spanish rider Carlos
Golbano (Paternina-Costa de Almería) won't be starting the Vuelta a
España on Saturday after UCI blood tests conducted Wednesday evening
revealed the pair "unfit" to start."

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are
giving him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period
before another test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be
due to natural causes?

The team doctor should have tested the riders the day before the UCI tests
and corrected anything like this (ahem actovegin). Both doctors should be
fired.

In article <[email hidden]>, Kyle Legate

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

VN:

"Italian star Francesco Casagrande (Lampre) and Spanish rider Carlos
Golbano (Paternina-Costa de Almería) won't be starting the Vuelta a
España on Saturday after UCI blood tests conducted Wednesday evening
revealed the pair "unfit" to start."

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are
giving him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period
before another test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be
due to natural causes?

The team doctor should have tested the riders the day before the UCI tests
and corrected anything like this (ahem actovegin). Both doctors should be
fired.

Well you know there are "circumstances" that could cause a variable
test result from one day to the next. Like the doc in Batman said to
the Joker after his reconstructive surgery, "I did my best, but look
what I have to work with!"

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, Kyle Legate

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

VN:

"Italian star Francesco Casagrande (Lampre) and Spanish rider Carlos
Golbano (Paternina-Costa de Almería) won't be starting the Vuelta a
España on Saturday after UCI blood tests conducted Wednesday evening
revealed the pair "unfit" to start."

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are
giving him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period
before another test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be
due to natural causes?

The team doctor should have tested the riders the day before the UCI tests
and corrected anything like this (ahem actovegin). Both doctors should be
fired.

Well you know there are "circumstances" that could cause a variable
test result from one day to the next. Like the doc in Batman said to
the Joker after his reconstructive surgery, "I did my best, but look
what I have to work with!"

-WG

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

gym gravity said:

where is that link to the French list of all time doping offences?

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

Quoted message said:

Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens
5 Davy
5 Desbiens
5 Gaumont
5 Merckx
5 Thurau
5 Van Geneugden
4 Altig
4 Andersen
4 Bortolami
4 Boyer
4 Brochard
4 Gimondi
4 Hamburger
4 Laurent
4 Motta
4 Pantani
4 Virenque
4 Zootemelk
4 Zulle
3 Aimar
3 Bouvard
3 Bugno
3 Collinelli
3 Edwards
3 Fois
3 Godefroot
3 Guimard
3 Herve
3 Karstens

Adrian Karstans????????

Quoted message said:

3 Lino
3 Moreau
3 Pingeon
3 Roux
3 Sassone
3 Simoni
3 Theilliere
3 Theunisse
3 Thevenet
3 Tinazzi
3 Vandenbroucke
3 Vandenbroucke

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

gym gravity said:

where is that link to the French list of all time doping offences?

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

Quoted message said:

Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens
5 Davy
5 Desbiens
5 Gaumont
5 Merckx
5 Thurau
5 Van Geneugden
4 Altig
4 Andersen
4 Bortolami
4 Boyer
4 Brochard
4 Gimondi
4 Hamburger
4 Laurent
4 Motta
4 Pantani
4 Virenque
4 Zootemelk
4 Zulle
3 Aimar
3 Bouvard
3 Bugno
3 Collinelli
3 Edwards
3 Fois
3 Godefroot
3 Guimard
3 Herve
3 Karstens
3 Lino
3 Moreau
3 Pingeon
3 Roux
3 Sassone
3 Simoni
3 Theilliere
3 Theunisse
3 Thevenet
3 Tinazzi
3 Vandenbroucke

Since this name is listed twice I am sure the first one is his dog!!!!

Quoted message said:

3 Vandenbroucke

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

Quoted message said:

Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

Crusaders have to be careful not to become Puritans (excuse the
horrendous mixing of religious metaphors).

Ben
Drinking beer on training rides is good, at least if
you're training for messenger races

Benjamin Weiner said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

> Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

Right. I wasn't taking the list as gospel--I was simply answering the
question of who appeared on it the most times.

Here's a marginally closer look at data quality:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/polls/pollbias.html

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:00:52 -0400, gym gravity wrote:
> where is that link to the French list of all time doping offences?

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

> Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens
5 Davy
5 Desbiens
5 Gaumont
5 Merckx
5 Thurau
5 Van Geneugden
4 Altig
4 Andersen
4 Bortolami
4 Boyer
4 Brochard
4 Gimondi
4 Hamburger
4 Laurent
4 Motta
4 Pantani
4 Virenque
4 Zootemelk
4 Zulle
3 Aimar
3 Bouvard
3 Bugno
3 Collinelli
3 Edwards
3 Fois
3 Godefroot
3 Guimard
3 Herve
3 Karstens
3 Lino
3 Moreau
3 Pingeon
3 Roux
3 Sassone
3 Simoni
3 Theilliere
3 Theunisse
3 Thevenet
3 Tinazzi
3 Vandenbroucke

Since this name is listed twice I am sure the first one is his dog!!!!

Quoted message said:

3 Vandenbroucke

nope, his uncle Jean-Luc

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

> Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

If they want to include alcohol, fine. But I'm afraid they'll have to open a
new website because everybody drank alcohol in those times. From a glass of
champagne or beer to a whole bottle of cognac.

Benjo Maso

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/

> Who has the most?

A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

Crusaders have to be careful not to become Puritans (excuse the
horrendous mixing of religious metaphors).

Ben
Drinking beer on training rides is good, at least if
you're training for messenger races

Dang, that reminds me of the first non-solo training ride I went on with a
guy 2 years older than me. We were jsut about warmed up and going to pass a
spot known as a popular place to top off water bottles and get food since it
is the last place to do these important things before heading up in to the
steep hills. So, my "mentor" pulls over and runs in the store to grab a beer
and then plops his ass down in the shade under a tree. That was the last
time I went riding with the local "jocks".

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

Quoted message said:

> http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/
>
>> Who has the most?
>
> A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.

7 Abdu
7 Anquetil
7 Letort
7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

If they want to include alcohol, fine. But I'm afraid they'll have to open

a

Quoted message said:

new website because everybody drank alcohol in those times. From a glass

of

Quoted message said:

champagne or beer to a whole bottle of cognac.

Benjo Maso

Maybe (no, definitely) but they never checked anyone unless they had a
reason to. I thought the first regular testing was in response to the Tom
Simpson death?

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

I don't get this "unfit" to start deal. Sounds to me like they are

giving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

him the benefit of the doubt with the 15 day grace period before another
test. Is this a slap on the wrist because it MIGHT be due to natural
causes?

Yes, it is possible that there are natural causes.

Right. So, current testing sucks at best and he gets punished for what
might be simple dehydration. Or, am I just way to gullible?
--
Marty

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote :
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

> > http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/
> >
> >> Who has the most?
> >
> > A quick glance tells me: Abdu and Maître Jacques tied at 7.
>
> 7 Abdu
> 7 Anquetil
> 7 Letort
> 7 Maertens

You gotta watch out for the data quality there. Like, one of
Anquetil's "incidents" is for alcohol and based on "testimony" -
probably based on the story about him getting lacquered on
champagne during one Tour, if I remember that right.

If they want to include alcohol, fine. But I'm afraid they'll have to

open

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

new website because everybody drank alcohol in those times. From a glass

of

Quoted message said:

champagne or beer to a whole bottle of cognac.

Benjo Maso

Maybe (no, definitely) but they never checked anyone unless they had a
reason to. I thought the first regular testing was in response to the Tom
Simpson death?

The first regular test were in 1965 in Belgium. The first time in the Tour
was in 1966. Six riders were tested. Because the test was not announced, all
the riders tested positive, except Poulidor, whose urine in some mysteriuos
way got lost. The day after, on the initiative of Anquetil the peloton went
on strike. Without much success, because of the stars who didn't agree with
the action, took his bike and rode away. His name? Tommy Simpson ...

Benjo Maso

Marty said:

Right. So, current testing sucks at best and he gets punished for what
might be simple dehydration. Or, am I just way to gullible?
--
Marty

Not a good idea to start a three week stage race dehydrated.

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marty said:

Right. So, current testing sucks at best and he gets punished for what
might be simple dehydration. Or, am I just way to gullible?
--
Marty

Not a good idea to start a three week stage race dehydrated.

Right, but he wasn't declared unfit the morning of the race start - it was
on Wednesday. If they can't prove he was doping and they give him the
benefit of the doubt (which they are doing now), they why not let him
attempt to get fit before the start and if he passes, let him race. To me,
it just seems a bit harsh for something that has not been proved. I don't
know - maybe he was beyond the point of being able to "recover" before
Saturday morning.
--
Marty