Toe cips

Chris Davies said:

Hi,

Now I have only two bikes left(sure you've all heard enough of this), I
am thinking of getting rid of my SPDs. I am sick of the PD-M323s (open
one side, SPD on the other) on my Galaxy, keep having to lift my foot up
to turn to the right side of the pedals, also to be honest I'm so used
to having my shoes fastened to the pedals it scares me if I lift my foot
and the pedal doesn't come with it.
I like SPDs on my mountain bike, but for something I use to get about as
well as ride for fun like the Galaxy(totally for fun if you consider I'd
have a mobile greenhouse otherwise)I think that toe-clips might be an
advantage.
Do any of you use still use clips & straps? Can you suggest brands? Have
had bikes with Christophe clips & straps in the past, rather stupidly
gave them to someone who was stuck for a set of pedals. Still have a
pair of no-name wedge-shaped pedals with straps, but these are too
narrow for really long distances as I found out to my cost once.
Any advice would be lovely.

Chris

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Remove the bars to contact me

One other thing: What shoe sizes (UK) do you require for the clip size? Is
it standard, or does it change from manufacturer to manufacturer? I am
guessing that size 11s would mean size L or XL clips.
TIA

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"Chris Davies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Now I have only two bikes left(sure you've all heard enough of this), I am
thinking of getting rid of my SPDs. I am sick of the PD-M323s (open one
side, SPD on the other) on my Galaxy, keep having to lift my foot up to
turn to the right side of the pedals, also to be honest I'm so used to
having my shoes fastened to the pedals it scares me if I lift my foot and
the pedal doesn't come with it.
I like SPDs on my mountain bike, but for something I use to get about as
well as ride for fun like the Galaxy(totally for fun if you consider I'd
have a mobile greenhouse otherwise)I think that toe-clips might be an
advantage.

But but but.. there's something I don't get here. If you like SPDs, which
it seems you do, but don't liked single-sided pedals, which it seems is what
you have on the galaxy, why not just get double sided ones to put on the
galaxy? Ok so you use the galaxy to 'get about' as well as 'for fun' - but
you can still have fun and get about off the bike while wearing SPD shoes,
and have even more fun getting about _on_ the bike with them! At least
that's my experience. Anyway personally I don't think clips and straps are
anywhere near equivalent - firstly they also only work on one side of the
pedal, and if you were taking your foot in and out you'd still find you have
to rotate the pedal - and secondly the straps won't hold the pedal to the
foot as tightly as clips anyway unless you do them up tight, and then you
won't be able to get your foot out when you need to put one down.

For my money, I'd suggest staying with the SPDs.

Rich

Richard Goodman said:

"Chris Davies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Now I have only two bikes left(sure you've all heard enough of this), I
am
thinking of getting rid of my SPDs. I am sick of the PD-M323s (open one
side, SPD on the other) on my Galaxy, keep having to lift my foot up to
turn to the right side of the pedals, also to be honest I'm so used to
having my shoes fastened to the pedals it scares me if I lift my foot
and
the pedal doesn't come with it.
I like SPDs on my mountain bike, but for something I use to get about as
well as ride for fun like the Galaxy(totally for fun if you consider I'd
have a mobile greenhouse otherwise)I think that toe-clips might be an
advantage.

But but but.. there's something I don't get here. If you like SPDs,
which
it seems you do, but don't liked single-sided pedals, which it seems is
what
you have on the galaxy, why not just get double sided ones to put on the
galaxy? Ok so you use the galaxy to 'get about' as well as 'for fun' -
but
you can still have fun and get about off the bike while wearing SPD
shoes,
and have even more fun getting about _on_ the bike with them! At least
that's my experience. Anyway personally I don't think clips and straps
are
anywhere near equivalent - firstly they also only work on one side of the
pedal, and if you were taking your foot in and out you'd still find you
have
to rotate the pedal - and secondly the straps won't hold the pedal to the
foot as tightly as clips anyway unless you do them up tight, and then you
won't be able to get your foot out when you need to put one down.

For my money, I'd suggest staying with the SPDs.

Rich

I like having my feet attached to the pedals, but I don't like having to
take two pairs of shoes with me everywhere I go. I know you can wear SPD
off the bike, but to be honest I'd rather not.
My problems with rotating single sided SPD's is the pedals have an
annoying tendency of being the wrong side up. With clips you do have to
rotate the pedal, but it's always going to be rotating it to the right
position.
On the other hand, you do have a point about straps not holding your foot
as tight. I might try for a while and see.
Thanks for the advice,

Chris

--
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Remove the bars to contact me

Chris Davies <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do any of you use still use clips & straps? Can you suggest brands? Have
had bikes with Christophe clips & straps in the past, rather stupidly gave
them to someone who was stuck for a set of pedals.

Yes.

Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
cleats for almost every cycling trip. They do not make anywhere as much
money for manufacturers, though. They'd much rather you bought the special
expensive shoes, the cleats that wear out, the special pedals, and then do
it again next year when the "new" models come out.

If you have small feet get small clips. Large, get large. Medium - you
must have the idea.

They will work on most any type of quill or rat-trap pedal. If you will
ride long distances you can get pedals that give more support - Lyotard,
MKS, TA, and some small italian company whoose name escapes me made
"platform" pedals - but the latin ones need special clips, so don't buy
them.

Make the straps as tight as you feel fits the ride. Do it as you ride -
much better than getting off the bike and standing around in silly shoes
looking for a tool to fiddle with some hidden spring in the pedal
somewhere...

"Chris Davies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I like having my feet attached to the pedals, but I don't like having to
take two pairs of shoes with me everywhere I go. I know you can wear SPD
off the bike, but to be honest I'd rather not.

Ok., not wanting to take two pairs of shoes everywhere is reasonable.. One
other option might be to get a set of double-sided SPDs with a removable
platform - this is a solution that a friend at work uses - if he wants to
ride without SPD shoes he just pops the platform on, at other times he rides
with SPD shoes and has the benefit of double-sided pedals. Of course, when
you are in single-sided platform mode this still leaves the problem of
turning the pedal to the right side, but it might not be so often a problem
as with permanently single-side pedals, and..

Quoted message said:

My problems with rotating single sided SPD's is the pedals have an
annoying tendency of being the wrong side up. With clips you do have to
rotate the pedal, but it's always going to be rotating it to the right
position.

I found when I used clips that the pedals were also always the wrong way up,
the same as with single-sided SPDs - I think it's the extra weight on one
side of the pedal that makes it rotate to the lower surface by default as
soon as you take your foot off. So personally I found clipped/strapped and
single-sided clipless equally annoying in that respect, not that you don't
get used to it.

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, you do have a point about straps not holding your foot
as tight. I might try for a while and see.
Thanks for the advice,

Thanks. I would have thought that unless you wanted/needed to do most of
your riding without SPD shoes, or most of your time while using the bike was
being spent off it, that sticking with the SPDs would be the more
satisfactory solution.

Rich

Chris Davies said:

Now I have only two bikes left(sure you've all heard enough of this), I
am thinking of getting rid of my SPDs. I am sick of the PD-M323s (open
one side, SPD on the other) on my Galaxy, keep having to lift my foot up
to turn to the right side of the pedals

Maybe try some Time Z Freerides. They have an oversized platform so you
should be able to use them easily with normal shoes and at ATAC mech on
both sides. I prefer ATACs to SPuDs anyway as there's none of that
silly buggering about with tension, I find the engagement more positive,
worn cleats are less prone to coming out and there's more float.

Quoted message said:

I like SPDs on my mountain bike, but for something I use to get about as
well as ride for fun like the Galaxy(totally for fun if you consider I'd
have a mobile greenhouse otherwise)I think that toe-clips might be an
advantage.

If it's turning the pedal over that pisses you off on single sided
SPuDs, I don't really see that something that requires you to flip them
on 100% of engagements will really be your thing.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
cleats for almost every cycling trip.

Not for me. I don't regret the switch to clipless for a second. Beofre I used
clipless I used toeclips & straps. I could never get the straps right and my
knees were always aching. Since the change to clipless, I've found it much
easier on my knees, more efficient pedalling and easier to get up hills -
believe me, I need all the help I can get to get up any sort of hill.

Cheers, helen s

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jtaylor said:

Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
cleats for almost every cycling trip.

Except when they're not, of course.

Quoted message said:

money for manufacturers, though. They'd much rather you bought the special
expensive shoes

But the sort of people that buy cycling shoes now are the same people
that used to buy them to use with clips and straps. Clips and straps
work /much/ better with proper cycling shoes, btw, and that's still not
as well as clipless unless you're working in fairly esoteric track racing.

Quoted message said:

then do it again next year when the "new" models come out.

What? I certainly don't buy new pedals every year, and buy new shoes
when the old ones have worn out.

I used to use clips and straps. I converted to clipless because they
work better for pedalling efficiency, are easier to get in and out of
and are considerably more comfortable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

jtaylor said:

Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
cleats for almost every cycling trip.

Except when they're not, of course.

Quoted message said:

money for manufacturers, though. They'd much rather you bought the special
expensive shoes

But the sort of people that buy cycling shoes now are the same people
that used to buy them to use with clips and straps. Clips and straps
work /much/ better with proper cycling shoes, btw, and that's still not
as well as clipless unless you're working in fairly esoteric track racing.

Quoted message said:

then do it again next year when the "new" models come out.

What? I certainly don't buy new pedals every year, and buy new shoes
when the old ones have worn out.

I used to use clips and straps. I converted to clipless because they
work better for pedalling efficiency, are easier to get in and out of
and are considerably more comfortable.

When I converted to clipless I used exactly the same shoes I was using for
clips and straps. In order to get toeclips to work properly you need to have
cleats on teh bottom of the shoes to stop your feet sliding off the pedals
(OK, I'm talking 'properly' in an 'I want to race my bike' sense). This gets
interesting as you CANNOT get your feet out without undoing the straps.

There was one occasion where I had my handle bars break in two. Just as I
was approaching a large roundabout. I couldn't let go of the half that was
still attached to the bike as I needed that to steer. I couldn't let go of
the other bit as it would swing down and potentially go into the front
wheel. And I couldn't undo the toe clips because my hands were full.

In the end I didn't fall off due to a conveniently placed bit of road
furniture that I could grab hold of. But it would have been no problem at
all with clipless.

Now I use clipless pedals on my everyday bike. I don't wear cycle shoes to
work (not often anyway) so use the traditional side of the pedal. When I
take that bike into town to run the messages at the weekend I wear the cycle
shoes because they are more comfortable and feel so much better on the bike.

...d

David Martin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2/9/04 11:56 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter

Clinch"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jtaylor said:

Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
cleats for almost every cycling trip.

Except when they're not, of course.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

There was one occasion where I had my handle bars break in two. Just as I
was approaching a large roundabout. I couldn't let go of the half that was
still attached to the bike as I needed that to steer. I couldn't let go of
the other bit as it would swing down and potentially go into the front
wheel. And I couldn't undo the toe clips because my hands were full.

Here we have someone who does not understand that "almost every" excludes
the times when his handle-bars break. If such is indeed a common ocurrence
for him then perhaps he can be excused...

jtaylor said:

Here we have someone who does not understand that "almost every" excludes
the times when his handle-bars break. If such is indeed a common ocurrence
for him then perhaps he can be excused...

As opposed to someone who seems to think that superior in the majority
of cases is the same as harder to use, less comfortable and less
efficient...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 2/9/04 1:22 pm, in article [email hidden],

jtaylor said:

David Martin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2/9/04 11:56 am, in article [email hidden], "Peter

Clinch"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jtaylor wrote:

> Toe clips and straps are a much better solution than special shoes and
> cleats for almost every cycling trip.

Except when they're not, of course.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

There was one occasion where I had my handle bars break in two. Just as I
was approaching a large roundabout. I couldn't let go of the half that was
still attached to the bike as I needed that to steer. I couldn't let go of
the other bit as it would swing down and potentially go into the front
wheel. And I couldn't undo the toe clips because my hands were full.

Here we have someone who does not understand that "almost every" excludes
the times when his handle-bars break. If such is indeed a common ocurrence
for him then perhaps he can be excused...

Where did I say that it was almost every trip?

I took clips and straps off my MTB because mixed flat/spd were so much
better for almost every trip.

Saves a lot of faffing around both ways.

...d

David Martin said:

I took clips and straps off my MTB because mixed flat/spd were so much
better for almost every trip.

Back in the Old Days, when I actually /did/ use my mountain bike for proper
off-roadery, I retained clips and straps long after most people had switched
to SPD. The reason being that the early SPDs appeared to have been designed
for Californians, who regard the prospect of mixing Mud and Bicycles with
the degree of horror that right -thinking BRITONS reserve for, oh, something
/really/ nasty. The Republican Party convention, perhaps. But I digress.

The SPDded-up would, at the summit of every hill up which they had been
unable to ride, mount up, dismount and poke the soles of their shoes and the
inner workings of the pedals with sticks, to remove the blean adhering
thereto, while we of the clips and straps persuasion would ride merrily on
our way, thus assuring ourselves of pole position next to the fire in Thee
Pubb.

However, for road riding I switched to Looks in 1990 and have seen no reason
to revert. Toe straps are a complete pain in the [censored] on a recumbent and
not much better on an upright. All that unpleasant bending at every set of
traffic lights. Tch! When I cycle I cycle, and when I walk I walk and
hopefully the twain shall ne'er meet[1].

Mrs Larrington uses those half-clip affairs on her Ridgeback Genesis; I
think she's afraid of being strapped into a burning bike. But in her days
as a paid-up member of the Dark Side Mafia, she had Looks too.

1 - those who have been obliged, through a combination of dysfunctional
bicycle and no-one at home to come to the rescue, to walk five miles in
Look-cleated shoes will appreciate why.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

They'd much rather you bought the special
expensive shoes, the cleats that wear out, the special pedals, and then do
it again next year when the "new" models come out.

Balderdash sir!

I used the same set of Look pedals and shoes for 8 years until I decided to
use spds on my road bike as well as the others. The pedals were still
servicable and the shoes sound.
True, I got through a few pairs of cleats but then IIRC I used to have to
replace clips quite often as they wore through where they dragged on the
road and also the strap fittings would rust and the leather deteriorate.
Plastic straps, don't even mention them, slippery, slidey nasty things.
Them were the days? No, them weren't.

Pete

Quoted message said:

... Californians, who regard the prospect of mixing Mud and Bicycles with
the degree of horror ...

Not really. It doesn't rain noticeably over here for many months each
year. As soon as it does start to rain, the authorities close off all
the trails that are mud-prone (to stop them getting churned up). Lots
of trails are sandy/gravelly, so never get muddy year round. Hence,
Californian MTB riders simply don't get many opportunities to ride on
mud, no fear and loathing involved.

--
Peter Headland, San Mateo, California

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter

Headland (') said:

Quoted message said:

... Californians, who regard the prospect of mixing Mud and Bicycles
with the degree of horror ...

Not really. It doesn't rain noticeably over here for many months each
year. As soon as it does start to rain, the authorities close off all
the trails that are mud-prone (to stop them getting churned up). Lots
of trails are sandy/gravelly, so never get muddy year round. Hence,
Californian MTB riders simply don't get many opportunities to ride on
mud, no fear and loathing involved.

Which is how come we get bike designs like the Scott Genius and the
Klein Mantra (and, to be fair, my own beloved Cannondale Jekyll,
although it's a little less vulnerable), which put the rear shock
straight in the path of the mud coming off the rear tyre...

Probably perfectly practical in California.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

In my opinion the answer to this one is to look at off road SPDs.

Ihave a pair of PD M 646 and a pair of 545s.

The 545s in particular are a double sided SPD with a plastic platform (later models have an alloy platform) around them. That means I can use them with cleats or with normal shoes.

They don't weigh that much more than regular SPDs either.

See http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/acatalog/PEDALS___SPD_CLIPLESS.html