Using a CC-1

michael-<< I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear
from my Park Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving
pin in one end). >><BR><BR>

Toss that thing. The Park CC-3 works great, the others are junque-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Michael Green said:

I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear
from my Park Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving
pin in one end).

The easiest procedure is to sell it and use the money to buy a ruler.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

Michael Green said:

Help me use my CC-1

Quoted message said:

I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear from my Park
Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving pin in one end).

Quoted message said:

What is the correct technique? Also I note that the pin in one end
seems slightly bent. Are they all like this or has mine got damaged?

Use a ruler or tape measure held next to the lower run of the chain.
CC-1 is just another gimmick that costs money and makes an incorrect
measurement because it includes roller clearance, something that is not
part of chain pitch. Chain pitch, the item of interest is 1/2 inch
and is measured from center to center of an even number of links,
typically 12 inches of chain. One percent of 12.000 is 0.12(5) or
1/8 of and inch. At greater than 1/16" the chain is worn out. At
1/8" it is causing rapid chainwheel damage.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Michael Green wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Help me use my CC-1

I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear
from my Park Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving
pin in one end).

What is the correct technique? Also I note that the pin
in one end seems slightly bent. Are they all like this
or has mine got damaged? Ta.

Use a ruler. diameter of pin over 12" is usual y taken as limit of
acceptable wear of a multi-sprocketed bike. This wear rate can be stretched
depending on equipment and user tolerability.

Trevor

[email hidden] wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Michael Green said:

Help me use my CC-1

Quoted message said:

I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear from my Park
Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving pin in one end).

Quoted message said:

What is the correct technique? Also I note that the pin in one end
seems slightly bent. Are they all like this or has mine got damaged?

Use a ruler or tape measure held next to the lower run of the chain.
CC-1 is just another gimmick that costs money and makes an incorrect
measurement because it includes roller clearance, something that is not
part of chain pitch. Chain pitch, the item of interest is 1/2 inch
and is measured from center to center of an even number of links,
typically 12 inches of chain. One percent of 12.000 is 0.12(5) or
1/8 of and inch. At greater than 1/16" the chain is worn out. At
1/8" it is causing rapid chainwheel damage.

If it aint once, its a thousand times, "STOP EXAGGERATING!"

Measure along the top run cranking to tension the chain. This ensures chain
is dead straight with excess lubricant displaced. Remember the chain will
be under great tension when riding.

Trevor

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:55:56 +0100, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Use a ruler or tape measure held next to the lower run of the chain.
CC-1 is just another gimmick that costs money and makes an incorrect
measurement because it includes roller clearance, something that is not
part of chain pitch. Chain pitch, the item of interest is 1/2 inch
and is measured from center to center of an even number of links,
typically 12 inches of chain. One percent of 12.000 is 0.12(5) or
1/8 of and inch. At greater than 1/16" the chain is worn out. At
1/8" it is causing rapid chainwheel damage.

If it aint once, its a thousand times, "STOP EXAGGERATING!"

Measure along the top run cranking to tension the chain. This ensures chain
is dead straight with excess lubricant displaced. Remember the chain will
be under great tension when riding.

Trevor

Hey Trevor, I'm curious, your posts come across as you being some kind
of expert on everything bicycle. What are your qualifications and
credentials?

Life is Good!
Jeff

Trevor Jeffrey said:

Quoted message said:

Use a ruler or tape measure held next to the lower run of the
chain. CC-1 is just another gimmick that costs money and makes an
incorrect measurement because it includes roller clearance,
something that is not part of chain pitch. Chain pitch, the item
of interest is 1/2 inch and is measured from center to center of an
even number of links, typically 12 inches of chain. One percent of
12.000 is 0.12(5) or 1/8 of and inch. At greater than 1/16" the
chain is worn out. At 1/8" it is causing rapid chainwheel damage.

Quoted message said:

If it aint once, its a thousand times, "STOP EXAGGERATING!"

Maybe you could offer a hint of what you find exaggerated and why you
believe it is so. I don't see anything constructive in your shouting.

Quoted message said:

Measure along the top run cranking to tension the chain. This
ensures chain is dead straight with excess lubricant displaced.
Remember the chain will be under great tension when riding.

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front
derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing. What I suggest is a reasonable way of measuring
chain wear considering the nature of cosine error of small angles of
chain sag (<1 deg) and that the chain never has any slack in it under
operation. Adding pedal tension does nothing to change chain length
unless you are thinking of forcing the pedal with several hundred
pounds of force. The we would be looking at elastic elongation, which
is not useful in determining chain wear.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Trevor Jeffrey writes:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Measure along the top run . . .

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front
derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

Hmmm . . .

I see that you didn't go out with me to the garage just now,
where my 18-inch ruler worked just fine on the upper chain
run of my touring bike between the derailleur and the
chain-stay.

You'll be relieved to hear that there's no apparent wear
after the first hundred miles on the new chain--12 inches,
pin to pin.

Of course, my touring bike may be easier to work on because
it sleeps upside-down on the floor on its brake hoods and
seat.

So I crept out onto the back patio, where the dauntless Fury
RoadMaster was dreaming of the Alp d'Huez, its right-hand
pedal hooked on top of a low wooden picnic bench,

Again, there was no problem putting the ruler on the top
chain run and no apparent wear after the first 700 miles.

I left a Presta valve cap under each bike's pillow and
turned the lights off.

Carl Fogel

Jeff Starr said:

Hey Trevor, I'm curious, your posts come across as you being some kind
of expert on everything bicycle. What are your qualifications and
credentials?

He has a computer and Usenet access.

[email hidden] wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Maybe you could offer a hint of what you find exaggerated and why you
believe it is so. I don't see anything constructive in your shouting.

That you consider a chain worn out at 1/16" elongation over 12" Only a shop
mechanic with access to cheap chains and free time has a real reason to
think this way. 1/8" is considered the minimal 'stretch' at which to
replace.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Measure along the top run cranking to tension the chain. This
ensures chain is dead straight with excess lubricant displaced.
Remember the chain will be under great tension when riding.

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front
derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing. What I suggest is a reasonable way of measuring
chain wear considering the nature of cosine error of small angles of
chain sag (<1 deg) and that the chain never has any slack in it under
operation. Adding pedal tension does nothing to change chain length
unless you are thinking of forcing the pedal with several hundred
pounds of force. The we would be looking at elastic elongation, which
is not useful in determining chain wear.

Another technique you knock because you have not attempted it, or are you
just too awkward? It is a simple matter to place a ruler over the top of
the chain to measure it, or have you not got a standard engineers steel
rule. Rear mech. hangs from the gear hanger and so the ruler stands on top
of the chain without any difficulty. It seems you are too set in your ways
for intelligent discussion. By the way, standard dictionary terms apply to
hanging and standing, not Jobstian definitions.

Trevor

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 02:21:13 +0100, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another technique you knock because you have not attempted it, or are you
just too awkward? It is a simple matter to place a ruler over the top of
the chain to measure it, or have you not got a standard engineers steel
rule. Rear mech. hangs from the gear hanger and so the ruler stands on top
of the chain without any difficulty. It seems you are too set in your ways
for intelligent discussion. By the way, standard dictionary terms apply to
hanging and standing, not Jobstian definitions.

Trevor

Hey Trevor, could you answer my question -

What are your qualifications and credentials?
What is your background? What qualifies you to be giving advice, in
everything bicycle?

I'm serious, I would like to know.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Trevor said:

[email hidden] wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front

^^^^^

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing.

Another technique you knock because you have not attempted it, or are you
just too awkward? It is a simple matter to place a ruler over the top of
the chain to measure it, or have you not got a standard engineers steel
rule. Rear mech. hangs from the gear hanger

Why bother replying to what was written when you can make something else
up?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

David Damerell said:

Trevor said:

[email hidden] wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front

^^^^^

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing.

Another technique you knock because you have not attempted it, or are you
just too awkward? It is a simple matter to place a ruler over the top of
the chain to measure it, or have you not got a standard engineers steel
rule. Rear mech. hangs from the gear hanger

Why bother replying to what was written when you can make something else
up?

Dear David,

Why bother sneering would you and Jobst could have tried
putting a ruler on the top run?

I did--it works fine.

Trevor's point about the rear derailleur, in all likelihood,
is that you can shove a yard stick in from the back of the
bike over the top chain run--there's nothing in the way.

Carl Fogel

David Damerell said:

Trevor said:

[email hidden] wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I see you don't do this or you would have noticed that the front

^^^^^

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

derailleur and the right seat stay interfere with the measurement as
you suggest doing.

Another technique you knock because you have not attempted it, or are you
just too awkward? It is a simple matter to place a ruler over the top of
the chain to measure it, or have you not got a standard engineers steel
rule. Rear mech. hangs from the gear hanger

Why bother replying to what was written when you can make something else
up?

Dear David,

Why bother sneering would you and Jobst could have tried
putting a ruler on the top run?

I did--it works fine.

Trevor's point about the rear derailleur, in all likelihood,
is that you can shove a yard stick in from the back of the
bike over the top chain run--there's nothing in the way.

Carl Fogel

[email hidden] (Michael Green) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Help me use my CC-1

I'm struggling to get reliable readings of chain wear
from my Park Tools CC-1 (the blue gadget with a moving
pin in one end).

What is the correct technique? Also I note that the pin
in one end seems slightly bent. Are they all like this
or has mine got damaged? Ta.

Correction, it's a CC-2.