Paceline Riding

[Randall Schulz]

Hi,

A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
replied "You must already know the answer to that!"

So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.

But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
riding a bit better.

So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
those who ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
prime the process.


Thanks.


RandyS

 

[Sandy]

Randall Schulz a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
> had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
> point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
> asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
> replied "You must already know the answer to that!"
>
> So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
> rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
> perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
> believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.
>
> But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
> riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
> to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
> riding a bit better.
>
> So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
> really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
> I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
> those who ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
> prime the process.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> RandyS
>
Unless he had his nose in your chamois, and unless your group was making
money riding fast, the rule when you see a level crossing is to not
fall, usually meaning take it easy.

What's so serious in your life that you need Emily Post to answer simple
Q's about riding ? Have you (both) thought of maybe having some fun on
the bike, once in a while ?

--

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
--
S'endormir au volant, c'est très dangereux.
S'endormir à vélo, c'est très rare.
S'endormir à pied, c'est très con.
- Geluck, P.

 

[[email protected]]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
> had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
> point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
> asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
> replied "You must already know the answer to that!"
>
> So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
> rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
> perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
> believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.
>
> But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
> riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
> to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
> riding a bit better.
>
> So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
> really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
> I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
> those who ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
> prime the process.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> RandyS

Hi Randy,

First and foremost your responsibility is to not crash yourself.
Everyone is more or less on their own, but it is curteous and wise to
think about the riders around you and to do what you can to make things
safe for them too. It's mostly common sense. Keep a wide margin to any
holes or obstacles so they do not surprise anyone behind, keep any
braking or accelerating smooth and predictable. Use hand signals to
point to hazards in the road. Like a big pothole on the right side of
your riding line would be best pointed out by pointing to the ground on
the right side. When someone points to the ground in a paceline it
means some hazard is approaching on the side indicated.

The best thing to do is go on some club rides and hang out in the back
watching what is happening. Observe the riders who seem the most smooth
and controlled. Emulate them. You can of course announce your rookie
status, but you might get 100,000,000 opinions on how things are done
with everyone telling you every 2 minutes what to do.

Have fun!

Joseph

 

[Randall Schulz]

Sandy,

At Monday 31 July 2006 06:59 in rec.bicycles.tech Sandy wrote:

> Randall Schulz a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
>> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers ...
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> RandyS
>>
> Unless he had his nose in your chamois, and unless your group was making
> money riding fast, the rule when you see a level crossing is to not
> fall, usually meaning take it easy.

There was just him and me. He was drafting pretty close and while I knew
the area and the hazards in that area, I don't think the other guy did. I
did nothing to signal that the tracks (which are at and angle less than
90 degrees to the road) were coming.


> What's so serious in your life that you need Emily Post to answer simple
> Q's about riding ? Have you (both) thought of maybe having some fun on
> the bike, once in a while ?

Life is serious. Look around.

As for him (whom I take you to be including in "both") is not someone I
know or likely will ever run into again. In chatting, however, I
discovered that he used to ride for Stanford, so I think he's an skilled
experienced rider.

Whatever he may have thought about me, he displayed neither anger nor
annoyance and said that he didn't consider it my fault that he was
surprised by my actions.

I just don't want to do this to others again.


But I don't understand your criticism here. I'm asking experienced,
serious performance / racing riders on this list how I might eradicate
some of my ignorance about proper and expected behavior in close riding
circumstances so as to be a better rider when not alone on the roads.


And I do have fun. I have fun by riding fast. I go for walks when I want a
casual, take-in-the-surroundings experience.


RRS

 

[Franklin]

Randall Schulz wrote:

> I just don't want to do this to others again.

Unless you are so fast or out-of-shape that you
cannot speak, a simple, "Railroad tracks." should
be sufficient warning. If wanted, toss lightly
with some profanity or vulgarity. An edge of
panic to your voice can add just that extra zip
to make the whole ride memorable.

The greatest likelyhood is that he was:
a) following too close for
b) his lack of knowledge of the area
and
c) daydreaming while admiring your glutes

I hope this helps.

 

[[email protected]]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
> had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
> point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
> asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
> replied "You must already know the answer to that!"
>
> So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
> rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
> perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
> believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.
>
> But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
> riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
> to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
> riding a bit better.
>
> So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
> really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
> I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
> those who ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
> prime the process.

Offering a more accurate perspective:

His fault, 100%.

Following too close on a rider he didn't know? Overlapped, too? And
then gave *you* **** disguised as instruction later?

If he's so superior, why did he need to latch onto *your* wheel?

Not meaning to sound too negative, but it really was his fault. You
could have offered a verbal warning just before slowing ("Slowing!").
All depends on circumstance, but *still* his fault.

Find yourself a group of old hands who will show you the ropes. Lots of
little do's and don'ts, nothing difficult to understand, or mystical,
at all. Don't rip their legs off in thanks <g>.

Maybe a group of old racers who go and do a nice quiet 50 miler on
Sunday morning. Bike shops, club web sites might be good contact
places. Remember, don't rip their legs off!
--D-y

 

[Sandy]

Randall Schulz a écrit :
> Sandy,
>
> At Monday 31 July 2006 06:59 in rec.bicycles.tech Sandy wrote:
>
>
>> Randall Schulz a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
>>> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> RandyS
>>>
>>>
>> Unless he had his nose in your chamois, and unless your group was making
>> money riding fast, the rule when you see a level crossing is to not
>> fall, usually meaning take it easy.
>>
>
> There was just him and me. He was drafting pretty close and while I knew
> the area and the hazards in that area, I don't think the other guy did. I
> did nothing to signal that the tracks (which are at and angle less than
> 90 degrees to the road) were coming.
>
RR tracks just don't come up and surprise you ! What was he looking at,
if not the road ahead ?
>
>
>> What's so serious in your life that you need Emily Post to answer simple
>> Q's about riding ? Have you (both) thought of maybe having some fun on
>> the bike, once in a while ?
>>
>
> Life is serious. Look around.
>
Look at it yourself. Boys on fast toys doesn't make for serious.
Maybe you were making money that day ...
If not, take it easy. It's just a bike ride.
> As for him (whom I take you to be including in "both") is not someone I
> know or likely will ever run into again. In chatting, however, I
> discovered that he used to ride for Stanford, so I think he's an skilled
> experienced rider.
>
>
Skilled and experienced because ????
Experienced riders don't make the rookie mistake of attaching themselves
blindly to someone they don't know or trust. Even is an established
group - mine, for instance - there are riders to follow and those to avoid.
>
> I just don't want to do this to others again.
>
I still don't get it. What did you do that was wrong ?
>
> But I don't understand your criticism here. I'm asking experienced,
> serious performance / racing riders on this list how I might eradicate
> some of my ignorance about proper and expected behavior in close riding
> circumstances so as to be a better rider when not alone on the roads.
>
>
Ride at the back, watch the guys ahead who seem able to communicate, and
copy.
> And I do have fun. I have fun by riding fast. I go for walks when I want a
> casual, take-in-the-surroundings experience.
>
This is not an advanced degree diploma course. Ride, communicate, learn
from mistakes, but there's no real rulebook.

--

Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

 

[landotter]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
> had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
> point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
> asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
> replied "You must already know the answer to that!"


As others have mentioned, you did nothing wrong, train tracks speak for
themselves, and most of the responsibility goes to the guy in back. A
proper response would have been, "do *you* have proper drafing
experience, as you were obviously inattentive and sucking my wheel too
hard."

 

[mark]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
> had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
> point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
> asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
> replied "You must already know the answer to that!"
>
> So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
> rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
> perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
> believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.
>
> But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
> riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
> to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
> riding a bit better.
>
> So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
> really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
> I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
> those whoMost ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
> prime the process.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> RandyS

Most railroad tracks are marked by signs, and the rider drafting you has
an obligation to watch the road ahead, even if he/she is busy admiring
your glutes.

Having said that, I suppose you could have phrased your consent as "feel
free to draft, but I don't have much experience in pacelines", or
something like that. Then again, anyone who drafts a complete stranger
is doing so at his/her own risk, IMHO.

mark

 

[Randall Schulz]

Franklin,

At Monday 31 July 2006 08:12 in rec.bicycles.tech Franklin wrote:

> Randall Schulz wrote:
>
>> I just don't want to do this to others again.
>
> Unless you are so fast or out-of-shape that you
> cannot speak, a simple, "Railroad tracks." should
> be sufficient warning. If wanted, toss lightly
> with some profanity or vulgarity. An edge of
> panic to your voice can add just that extra zip
> to make the whole ride memorable.

I neither a speed demon nor out of shape, so speech is usually possible...

I save the profanities for the jackass motorists of whom we have so very
many hereabouts.


> The greatest likelyhood is that he was:
> a) following too close for
> b) his lack of knowledge of the area
> and
> c) daydreaming while admiring your glutes

Yeah. That's it. My admirable glutes...


> I hope this helps.


Your hope gives me hope.

Perhaps I am taking this too seriously.

But I do remember a group ride I took a couple of years ago (I can count
those on one hand with a few fingers left over) when someone said that
following me was "scary."


RandyS

 

[Randall Schulz]

D,

At Monday 31 July 2006 08:25 in rec.bicycles.tech [email protected]
wrote:

>
> Randall Schulz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me ...
>
> Offering a more accurate perspective:
>
> His fault, 100%.
>
> Following too close on a rider he didn't know? Overlapped, too? And
> then gave *you* **** disguised as instruction later?

Too close? Sure. Overlapped? I don't think so. And I don't think he gave
me ****. He knew we'd likely never cross paths again. I think he just
wanted to make sure what happened to him didn't happen to someone else.


> If he's so superior, why did he need to latch onto *your* wheel?

Well, I was on a road bike and he was on a full-suspension mountain bike
with big gnarly tires.


> Not meaning to sound too negative, but it really was his fault. You
> could have offered a verbal warning just before slowing ("Slowing!").
> All depends on circumstance, but *still* his fault.

OK, but it's not as if the forward rider has no responsibility to ride
predictably and give the necessary warnings and signals, and that's what
I'm feeling a little clueless about.


> Find yourself a group of old hands who will show you the ropes. Lots of
> little do's and don'ts, nothing difficult to understand, or mystical,
> at all. Don't rip their legs off in thanks <g>.

I know it's not magic or anything, but I do notice the hand gestures and
clipped warnings and such, and it seems there are some expectations that
I should know about.


> Maybe a group of old racers who go and do a nice quiet 50 miler on
> Sunday morning. Bike shops, club web sites might be good contact
> places. Remember, don't rip their legs off!

That might work. Of course, I do get dropped by these gray guys. And I've
only reached the salt-and-pepper beard stage!

Check. No leg ripping off.


> --D-y


RRS

 

[Bill Sornson]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> Franklin,
>
> At Monday 31 July 2006 08:12 in rec.bicycles.tech Franklin wrote:
>
>> Randall Schulz wrote:
>>
>>> I just don't want to do this to others again.
>>
>> Unless you are so fast or out-of-shape that you
>> cannot speak, a simple, "Railroad tracks." should
>> be sufficient warning. If wanted, toss lightly
>> with some profanity or vulgarity. An edge of
>> panic to your voice can add just that extra zip
>> to make the whole ride memorable.
>
> I neither a speed demon nor out of shape, so speech is usually
> possible...
>
> I save the profanities for the jackass motorists of whom we have so
> very many hereabouts.
>
>
>> The greatest likelyhood is that he was:
>> a) following too close for
>> b) his lack of knowledge of the area
>> and
>> c) daydreaming while admiring your glutes
>
> Yeah. That's it. My admirable glutes...
>
>
>> I hope this helps.
>
>
> Your hope gives me hope.
>
> Perhaps I am taking this too seriously.
>
> But I do remember a group ride I took a couple of years ago (I can
> count those on one hand with a few fingers left over) when someone
> said that following me was "scary."

Well, FWIW, I ride with one guy who's a big strong "kid" (hell, he's 40 but
immature!) and he indeed is scary to follow. Many abrupt speed changes,
wild shoulder checks with attendant swerves, pointing at all kids of stuff
because that's what you're supposed to do, etc.

Usually I just "let" him get well out ahead -- and also, he's joining a few
shop and club rides soon, so hopefully they'll school him better than I.

Still, all that said, it's the following rider's responsibility to avoid
contact with the person in front of him or her; and especially if you don't
know the person, then there's really no excuse.

Bill S.

 

[Art Harris]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
> to cross some railroad tracks.

You were too nice. When someone asks to draft on me, I tell them I'd
rather they didn't.

When out on a solo ride, I want to enjoy myself. I go fast when I feel
like it, and take it easy when I don't. I want to be free to brake hard
if something unexpected happens without having to worry about someone
crashing into me.

A two person "paceline" is the simplest possible. If this guy couldn't
see a railroad crossing, he was not paying enough attention.

Personally, I don't see the need for pacelines unless you're racing or
riding into a wicked headwind.

Art Harris

 

[[email protected]]

Randall Schulz wrote:
> But I do remember a group ride I took a couple of years ago (I can count
> those on one hand with a few fingers left over) when someone said that
> following me was "scary."

OK, we're getting down to cases.

If you get bona fide complaints from other riders IRT riding in close
groups, likely the cause is BO, a big hole in the seat of your shorts
with a big nasty festering pimple right in the middle of the opening,
or sudden changes in speed or direction.

One biggie is swerving around holes or "whatever" in the road. It can
be done smoothly most of the time, so there is no lurch into someone
else's path of travel, etc. That's the main thing, being smooth and
steady, "riding in a straight line" (maybe not like a string line). And
dependable.

Like Sandy said, there are good wheels and the other kind. Some people
never do learn, even though they do much, much more difficult and
complicated things to earn their daily bread.

One way to improve control is riding rollers (please, no mega-post
rebuttals, OK?). You pretty much have to keep steering straight on
rollers, so you can practice applying power while relaxing the upper
body (not too much <g>). You might not have problems in that area in
the first place, but rollers can certainly be a good tool for putting
some polish on your riding. --D-y

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> Randall Schulz wrote:
> > But I do remember a group ride I took a couple of years ago (I can count
> > those on one hand with a few fingers left over) when someone said that
> > following me was "scary."
>
> OK, we're getting down to cases.
>
> If you get bona fide complaints from other riders IRT riding in close
> groups, likely the cause is BO, a big hole in the seat of your shorts
> with a big nasty festering pimple right in the middle of the opening,
> or sudden changes in speed or direction.
>
> One biggie is swerving around holes or "whatever" in the road. It can
> be done smoothly most of the time, so there is no lurch into someone
> else's path of travel, etc. That's the main thing, being smooth and
> steady, "riding in a straight line" (maybe not like a string line). And
> dependable.
>
> Like Sandy said, there are good wheels and the other kind. Some people
> never do learn, even though they do much, much more difficult and
> complicated things to earn their daily bread.
>
> One way to improve control is riding rollers (please, no mega-post
> rebuttals, OK?). You pretty much have to keep steering straight on
> rollers, so you can practice applying power while relaxing the upper
> body (not too much <g>). You might not have problems in that area in
> the first place, but rollers can certainly be a good tool for putting
> some polish on your riding. --D-y

We used to put tape on the rollers to create a narrow "lane" and kept
moving the tape stripes closer and closer until it was one strip of
electrical tape you were supposed to ride on the whole time. Bikes can
make a big difference here. I tried a Cannondale the other day that was
presumably a criterium bike with twitchy handling. It was very hard for
me to keep a striaght line while looking backward and things like that.
On my bike which has it seems more of a road geometry I can ride no
hands on a 10cm wide paint stripe almost as long as I want.

Joseph

 

[R Brickston]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:50:16 -0700, Randall Schulz
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
>consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
>and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
>to cross some railroad tracks. At this point, I was oblivious about what
>had happened. He understandably decided on a different route at that
>point, but when we came upon each other a while later at a rest stop, he
>asked me if I had much experience with paceline riding, to which I
>replied "You must already know the answer to that!"
>
>So this guy patiently and graciously explains to me what happens when a
>rider being drafted does what I did and why that's a bad thing. It makes
>perfect sense, of course, in retrospect. As you'll have no trouble
>believing, and as I told this guy, I almost always ride solo.
>
>But lately I've been expanding my range into areas frequented by more road
>riders and I'm recovering some of my earlier strength and speed, and seem
>to be attracting more drafters, so I need to know how to handle paceline
>riding a bit better.
>
>So... Where or how might I best get the basics of paceline riding? I
>really don't want to take anyone out! I know it will require practice and
>I'll need to find a way to make proper disclosure of my rookie status to
>those who ask to draft me, but I'd like to find something in writing to
>prime the process.
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>RandyS

To sum up a few point others have made, here's my take:

When the other rider asked your permission he most likely assumed you
had experience in this area. Obviously he should have inquired
further, so the fault is his.

For a paceline, I would say the first thing to learn is some basic
hand signals, this would have prevented the problem. That said, again,
the other rider unfortunately assumed that you knew about pacelining
and was expecting such a signal prior to any change in the pace or
direction.

 

[Bob Palermo]

Hi Randall,

I too am a novice at riding pacelines. Maybe "novice" is even an
overstatement. I've ridden two-person lines, with a couple of different
riding partners, for a little more than a year. The guy that taught me, is a
neighbor riding buddy, from Germany. He's had a lot more paceline and bike
handling experience than I have. He showed me by example how to point out
road debris and potholes, how to signal stops or slow downs well in advance.
We've had no problems. He says that he rides about 2 or 3 inches off my
wheel, while I typically ride 6 to 9 inches off his wheel. I started off
about a foot or more off his wheel but as I've gotten more confident, I've
closed the gap. As a reference, on the flats we ride at about 22 mph.

As others have mentioned, the person in the back does have responsibilities
to also watch the road. Whenever, I'm in doubt, I ease off and let the gap
open. I suspect he sometimes does the same. I'm also sure that I sometimes
miss pointing out road debris but he hasn't complained. I think the key is
to be as attentive as possible and to make generally gradual movements. I'm
sure it will be an education if I ever ride a larger sized paceline.

Hope this helps.

Bob P.



"Art Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Randall Schulz wrote:
>> A couple of days ago while someone was drafting me (after obtaining my
>> consent) I apparently forced him into evasive maneuvers when I abruptly
>> and without any kind of warning stopped pedaling and lifted off the seat
>> to cross some railroad tracks.
>
> You were too nice. When someone asks to draft on me, I tell them I'd
> rather they didn't.
>
> When out on a solo ride, I want to enjoy myself. I go fast when I feel
> like it, and take it easy when I don't. I want to be free to brake hard
> if something unexpected happens without having to worry about someone
> crashing into me.
>
> A two person "paceline" is the simplest possible. If this guy couldn't
> see a railroad crossing, he was not paying enough attention.
>
> Personally, I don't see the need for pacelines unless you're racing or
> riding into a wicked headwind.
>
> Art Harris
>

 

[Doug Taylor]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:24:28 -0700, Randall Schulz
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Not meaning to sound too negative, but it really was his fault. You
>> could have offered a verbal warning just before slowing ("Slowing!").
>> All depends on circumstance, but *still* his fault.
>
>OK, but it's not as if the forward rider has no responsibility to ride
>predictably and give the necessary warnings and signals, and that's what
>I'm feeling a little clueless about.

You're right and virtually all the replies to your initial post
totally miss the point. Which is this drafting guy did NOT crash when
you suddenly slowed - sounds like he WAS a skilled - so there was no
harm or foul and no "fault" whatsoever on his part.

His point later was simply that it is customary and common sense to
ride attentively and courteously when in a paceline. Anybody who
opines that "the rider behind has 100% responsibility" is someone you
should pay 0% attention to. They obviously have no clue about or
experience in pacelines, and are not answering your question.

Pacelines consist of a group or pack of bicycle riders traveling at
fairly high speeds, following one another in close proximity. The
effects and advantages of drafting behind other riders is too basic
and obvious to repeat here. To get the best effect, each rider's
front wheel will be as close as 6 inches to the rear wheel of the
rider in front of them. It does not take rocket science to figure out
that due to this proximity, any sudden or unpredictable move by any
rider in front can have disastrous consequences for riders in back.
Same applies to the responsibility of the first rider to point at or
call out obstacles in the road - pot holes, glass, tracks, etc. -
which the front rider can see, but the following riders cannot, due,
again, to the proximity of those in front blocking their view. You
ARE your brother's keeper: by the fact of joining in with a group or
other people who are synergetically performing as a group, you are
tacitly assuming responsibility to do your part to help make a
potentially dangerous activity as safe as possible for the entire
group.

Obviously, part of your responsibility - and probably the greatest
part - is to look out for yourself. Nobody is suggesting that when
you are on someone else's wheel you have in ANY WAY abdicated your
duty to ride defensively and be ready to react and respond if that
wheel stops, slows or moves. But we are suggesting that when you are
in front, you minimize or eliminate as much unpredictable, squirrely,
and sudden movements as possible as courtesy to those behind

Otherwise, by all means, do NOT ride in groups. No pack or paceline
riders want narcissistic, selfish geeks who think they can do
whatever they please without consequence in their midst.

How do you learn? There are clubs around which give instruction, but
the usual way is simply to show up at group rides, participate, watch,
learn by experience. Stay in the rear of the group, be attentive.
Riding in groups can be a great pleasure.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:41:14 -0500, "Bob Palermo"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>He says that he rides about 2 or 3 inches off my
>wheel,

I find it extremely hard to believe he rides that close.

JT

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[Bob Palermo]

There's no way for me to check it out. I can only go by what he says.



"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:41:14 -0500, "Bob Palermo"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>He says that he rides about 2 or 3 inches off my
>>wheel,
>
> I find it extremely hard to believe he rides that close.
>
> JT
>
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