Bike Cafe · Public discussion

World Tour Cycling (project)

Kallenovsky · 2006-07-10T04:03:35+00:00

For the last four years my friends and I have been working on a new system for a cycling game that could work and make it more enjoyable for casual gamers. We're just about finished with the first stage of development but we still have to improve the aspect of controlling an individual rider when not managing them as a group. We didn't want to make this a manager experience as much as a full-on perspective of cycling in general. Sounds boring right? Thinking about having to press a button many times to peddle? Not exactly like that it's very deep. It may seem strange to control a rider alone at times but once you're playing it I promise it will change anyone's ideas on that. We really wanted it to be different so that it's not just button mashing and such. There will always be strategy just like the real professional cyclisme and that is our top priority. The texturing alone was the most difficult and straining part since most of us are from different countries we all travelled about taking pictures to get city textures just perfect when adding them into the game. Realism is a must for a sports game like this. I'll be in France on October 12, 2006 until January 11, 2007 to finish up the Pyrénées section for texturing and some other personal things. The problem we currently have is trying to market it as we don't have the expensive licensing. I suppose to just release to fans for free and use the game as a way to get jobs into hiring development teams if needed. [img]http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] When we finish and have texturing done I'll try to send you all a link to some pictures and a licensed copy of the pre-game engine if some of you want to test it for bugs and such. Until then I suppose we'll all have to enjoy Pro Cycling Manager 2006, though I'm not too thrilled on it. I don't think it's much of a change from last year's copy. Squad cars, medic, and all motorbikes (Police; etc) are already present. The squad cars do interact with the riders in realistic ways so yes you will see flat tires and other mechanical issues. You can turn them off if you like under the Options menu or alter them so that they either happen often or hardly at all. It's your choice then. Medic does help when riders take a fall or have been injured at a certain moment. A cool idea we took from the Sims is that when something important happens such as an injury a small pop-up will appear to the lower right hand side of the screen to show you show's fallen and what the injury may be. Sometimes it will be undetermined at the first moment but the screen updates you on their status when confirmed. If injured severely you would see him lifted into an ambulance, if he's ok or injured and can still continue then you'll see him getting back on his bike. Whatever the injury is you will be notified even if the rider isn't on your team. Helicopters may not be present due to problems with the screen. The helicopters tend to move too low or don't go high enough when nearing the mountain stages and end up going through them. 😕 We're working hard at fixing this but the way the engine works it's not functioning too well with how the helicopter is moving about. The camera view from the helicopters are top notch though so we don't want to lose that aspect and have you only rely on top views from the "loose" camera that you can alter. We want the most realism ever I can't stress that enough. Until these glitches are fixed though, I can't confirm they will be present in the final version but I'm hoping. Here are some other things we've added and are currently planning to add before the final copy sometime in the next year or possibly 2008. It's very difficult to finish the right textures so it will take plenty of time and we are limited to only a dozen designers and developers.. But this on-the-fly information is so that you know I'm not pulling your leg. It will also give you a general idea of what you'll be looking at for the final copy. Enjoy and stay patient if interested. [img]http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] All questions welcome. Thank you. World Tour Cycling by development team Hommes d'honneur Stages Available countries with their starting + destination points (550 total) include: France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic, and various others. There are well over 10,000 cities and towns to cycle through, which equals out to well over a million different course changes to choose from. This gives the player plenty of options to run through that can be changed around quickly and easily on the fly with Easy Setup or well thought out and more original in Advanced Setup. All of the classics are also available here with official maps or you can design your very own layouts. Tours Here is where you can run through your very own created tour! You can also choose from one of the top tours in the world including the Tour de France, the Giro d’Italia, the Vuelta a España and much more. Choose your favorite rider or team from the various styles and make your name world known. Time Trials There are many choices for starting and destination points in Time Trials, but don’t expect every city or town to be available. There are also a couple bonus cities and towns from each of the leading countries in the game that are available only for time trial races. Career Choose one of the 548 individual riders in the game and take him through his entire remaining career. Another option would be to start a new career with one of your created riders and give them the experience many dream of as you work your way to the top of the charts by first signing with a starting available sponsor and gain experience and wins to give yourself leadership skills, credibility, and a better contract. Your choices in how you race, how you react to the media and toward your fellow riders and teammates reflect the outcome of your career. Remember that you can be released from your contract for several reasons including if you are selfish or make poor decisions. Team Manager The ultimate cycling experience comes to fold in team manager mode. This is where you decide who will be captain, how your team attire will appear during a race or tour, sign new talent and release others, and of course much more. There is a virtual website where you can track all of the different happenings going on with other sponsors including your own. Here you can also check the outcome of any tours, classics, time trials, and other racing material. Racer bios are also available so that you can check out their updated wins, jerseys, and more. The team manager experience can be played to 22 years. Joy Ride (not confirmed) With well over a million choices at your disposal you won’t have much of a problem running out of places to take a joy ride through. Take your pick and enjoy the country or city scenery. Edit This is where to turn when you’re looking for all of the best editing options in the game. Included editable options are rider appearances, the sponsors that they ride for, plus their bikes, clothing, accessories, and abilities. You can create new bikes and set their performance options such as acceleration, braking, handling, and more. Create up to twenty of your very own riders for sponsors to pick up; set their hometown, country, height, weight, age and other various options. Using a sponsor is nice in Team Manager but why not put together your very own by scanning a colored picture of the logo you wish to use and sign talent to the roster; you could become a new phenomenon. You can only create two new teams. Options Select your preference of rules and regulations during each stage that you run through in the stage exhibition mode. Open new bike designs and legendary riders such as Eddy Merckx and many more with experience points earned during any modes that are played. Difficulty settings are also available here as well as scanning options for your PC where you can upload your own designs for new sponsors in the editing mode and much more. 40 Legendary Cyclists (not confirmed) 2004 Lance Armstrong - unlocked at start 1998 Marco Pantani 1995 Miguel Induráin 1994 Tony Rominger 1993 Johan Museeuw 1990 Moreno Argentin 1988 Pedro Delgado 1987 Stephen Roche 1986 Greg LeMond 1985 Phil Anderson 1984 Francesco Moser - unlocked at start 1983 Jan Raas 1982 Bernard Hinault 1980 Sean Kelly 1979 Joop Zoetemelk - unlocked at start 1977 Bernard Thévenet 1976 Freddy Maertens 1975 Roger De Vlaeminck 1973 Felice Gimondi 1972 Eddy Merckx 1967 Tom Simpson 1966 Jan Janssen 1965 Rik Van Looy 1964 Jacques Anquetil 1963 Jean Stablinski - unlocked at start 1962 Rudi Altig 1958 Charly Gaul 1955 Louison Bobet 1949 Rik Van Steenbergen - unlocked at start 1940 Fausto Coppi 1939 Sylvère Maes (not confirmed) 1936 Gino Bartali (not confirmed) 1929 Alfredo Binda (not confirmed) 1928 Nicolas Frantz (not confirmed) 1925 Ottavio Bottecchia (not confirmed) 1919 Costante Girardengo (not confirmed) 1913 Philippe Thys (not confirmed) 1910 Octave Lapize (not confirmed) 1907 Lucien Petit-Breton (not confirmed) 1904 Henri Cornet Teams Ag2r (FRA) Astana-Würth (AWT) Bouygues Télécom (FRA) Caisse D'Espargne-Illes Balears (ESP) Cofidis (FRA) Crédit Agricole (FRA) CSC (DEN) Davitamon-Lotto (BEL) Discovery Channel (USA) Euskaltel-Euskadi (ESP) Française des Jeux (FRA) Gerolsteiner (GER) Lampre-Caffita (ITA) Liquigas-Bianchi (ITA) Milram (GER) Phonak (SUI) Quick Step (BEL) Rabobank (NED) Saunier Duval-Prodir (ESP) T-Mobile (GER) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Agritubel (FRA) Ceramiche Panaria-Navigare (IRL) Chocolade Jacques (BEL) Comunitat Valenciana (ESP) Kaiku (ESP) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago (BEL) Naturino-Sapore di Mare (ITA) Unibet.com (BEL)

Started by Kallenovsky · 10 July 2006 · Last activity 13 July 2006 · 4 posts · 1,005 views

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Original section: Bike Cafe
Published: 10 July 2006
Last activity: 13 July 2006
Original author: Kallenovsky
Posts: 4
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,005
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Time trials Giro d’Italia Punctures and flats Vuelta a España Eddy Merckx Bernard Hinault Fausto Coppi Greg LeMond Lance Armstrong Marco Pantani

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Original post
Kallenovsky
Archived post

10 July 2006, 04:03 UTC #1

For the last four years my friends and I have been working on a new system for a cycling game that could work and make it more enjoyable for casual gamers. We're just about finished with the first stage of development but we still have to improve the aspect of controlling an individual rider when not managing them as a group. We didn't want to make this a manager experience as much as a full-on perspective of cycling in general.
Sounds boring right? Thinking about having to press a button many times to peddle? Not exactly like that it's very deep. It may seem strange to control a rider alone at times but once you're playing it I promise it will change anyone's ideas on that. We really wanted it to be different so that it's not just button mashing and such. There will always be strategy just like the real professional cyclisme and that is our top priority.
The texturing alone was the most difficult and straining part since most of us are from different countries we all travelled about taking pictures to get city textures just perfect when adding them into the game. Realism is a must for a sports game like this. I'll be in France on October 12, 2006 until January 11, 2007 to finish up the Pyrénées section for texturing and some other personal things. The problem we currently have is trying to market it as we don't have the expensive licensing. I suppose to just release to fans for free and use the game as a way to get jobs into hiring development teams if needed. [img]img.gamespot.comwink.gif[/img]
When we finish and have texturing done I'll try to send you all a link to some pictures and a licensed copy of the pre-game engine if some of you want to test it for bugs and such. Until then I suppose we'll all have to enjoy Pro Cycling Manager 2006, though I'm not too thrilled on it. I don't think it's much of a change from last year's copy.
Squad cars, medic, and all motorbikes (Police; etc) are already present. The squad cars do interact with the riders in realistic ways so yes you will see flat tires and other mechanical issues. You can turn them off if you like under the Options menu or alter them so that they either happen often or hardly at all. It's your choice then. Medic does help when riders take a fall or have been injured at a certain moment.
A cool idea we took from the Sims is that when something important happens such as an injury a small pop-up will appear to the lower right hand side of the screen to show you show's fallen and what the injury may be. Sometimes it will be undetermined at the first moment but the screen updates you on their status when confirmed. If injured severely you would see him lifted into an ambulance, if he's ok or injured and can still continue then you'll see him getting back on his bike. Whatever the injury is you will be notified even if the rider isn't on your team.
Helicopters may not be present due to problems with the screen. The helicopters tend to move too low or don't go high enough when nearing the mountain stages and end up going through them. 😕 We're working hard at fixing this but the way the engine works it's not functioning too well with how the helicopter is moving about. The camera view from the helicopters are top notch though so we don't want to lose that aspect and have you only rely on top views from the "loose" camera that you can alter. We want the most realism ever I can't stress that enough. Until these glitches are fixed though, I can't confirm they will be present in the final version but I'm hoping.
Here are some other things we've added and are currently planning to add before the final copy sometime in the next year or possibly 2008. It's very difficult to finish the right textures so it will take plenty of time and we are limited to only a dozen designers and developers.. But this on-the-fly information is so that you know I'm not pulling your leg. It will also give you a general idea of what you'll be looking at for the final copy. Enjoy and stay patient if interested. [img]img.gamespot.comsmile.gif[/img]
All questions welcome.
Thank you.
World Tour Cycling by development team Hommes d'honneur
Stages
Available countries with their starting + destination points (550 total) include: France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic, and various others. There are well over 10,000 cities and towns to cycle through, which equals out to well over a million different course changes to choose from. This gives the player plenty of options to run through that can be changed around quickly and easily on the fly with Easy Setup or well thought out and more original in Advanced Setup. All of the classics are also available here with official maps or you can design your very own layouts.
Tours
Here is where you can run through your very own created tour! You can also choose from one of the top tours in the world including the Tour de France, the Giro d’Italia, the Vuelta a España and much more. Choose your favorite rider or team from the various styles and make your name world known.
Time Trials
There are many choices for starting and destination points in Time Trials, but don’t expect every city or town to be available. There are also a couple bonus cities and towns from each of the leading countries in the game that are available only for time trial races.
Career
Choose one of the 548 individual riders in the game and take him through his entire remaining career. Another option would be to start a new career with one of your created riders and give them the experience many dream of as you work your way to the top of the charts by first signing with a starting available sponsor and gain experience and wins to give yourself leadership skills, credibility, and a better contract. Your choices in how you race, how you react to the media and toward your fellow riders and teammates reflect the outcome of your career. Remember that you can be released from your contract for several reasons including if you are selfish or make poor decisions.
Team Manager
The ultimate cycling experience comes to fold in team manager mode. This is where you decide who will be captain, how your team attire will appear during a race or tour, sign new talent and release others, and of course much more. There is a virtual website where you can track all of the different happenings going on with other sponsors including your own. Here you can also check the outcome of any tours, classics, time trials, and other racing material. Racer bios are also available so that you can check out their updated wins, jerseys, and more. The team manager experience can be played to 22 years.
Joy Ride (not confirmed)
With well over a million choices at your disposal you won’t have much of a problem running out of places to take a joy ride through. Take your pick and enjoy the country or city scenery.
Edit
This is where to turn when you’re looking for all of the best editing options in the game. Included editable options are rider appearances, the sponsors that they ride for, plus their bikes, clothing, accessories, and abilities. You can create new bikes and set their performance options such as acceleration, braking, handling, and more. Create up to twenty of your very own riders for sponsors to pick up; set their hometown, country, height, weight, age and other various options. Using a sponsor is nice in Team Manager but why not put together your very own by scanning a colored picture of the logo you wish to use and sign talent to the roster; you could become a new phenomenon. You can only create two new teams.
Options
Select your preference of rules and regulations during each stage that you run through in the stage exhibition mode. Open new bike designs and legendary riders such as Eddy Merckx and many more with experience points earned during any modes that are played. Difficulty settings are also available here as well as scanning options for your PC where you can upload your own designs for new sponsors in the editing mode and much more.
40 Legendary Cyclists (not confirmed)
2004 Lance Armstrong - unlocked at start
1998 Marco Pantani
1995 Miguel Induráin
1994 Tony Rominger
1993 Johan Museeuw
1990 Moreno Argentin
1988 Pedro Delgado
1987 Stephen Roche
1986 Greg LeMond
1985 Phil Anderson
1984 Francesco Moser - unlocked at start
1983 Jan Raas
1982 Bernard Hinault
1980 Sean Kelly
1979 Joop Zoetemelk - unlocked at start
1977 Bernard Thévenet
1976 Freddy Maertens
1975 Roger De Vlaeminck
1973 Felice Gimondi
1972 Eddy Merckx
1967 Tom Simpson
1966 Jan Janssen
1965 Rik Van Looy
1964 Jacques Anquetil
1963 Jean Stablinski - unlocked at start
1962 Rudi Altig
1958 Charly Gaul
1955 Louison Bobet
1949 Rik Van Steenbergen - unlocked at start
1940 Fausto Coppi
1939 Sylvère Maes (not confirmed)
1936 Gino Bartali (not confirmed)
1929 Alfredo Binda (not confirmed)
1928 Nicolas Frantz (not confirmed)
1925 Ottavio Bottecchia (not confirmed)
1919 Costante Girardengo (not confirmed)
1913 Philippe Thys (not confirmed)
1910 Octave Lapize (not confirmed)
1907 Lucien Petit-Breton (not confirmed)
1904 Henri Cornet
Teams
Ag2r (FRA)
Astana-Würth (AWT)
Bouygues Télécom (FRA)
Caisse D'Espargne-Illes Balears (ESP)
Cofidis (FRA)
Crédit Agricole (FRA)
CSC (DEN)
Davitamon-Lotto (BEL)
Discovery Channel (USA)
Euskaltel-Euskadi (ESP)
Française des Jeux (FRA)
Gerolsteiner (GER)
Lampre-Caffita (ITA)
Liquigas-Bianchi (ITA)
Milram (GER)
Phonak (SUI)
Quick Step (BEL)
Rabobank (NED)
Saunier Duval-Prodir (ESP)
T-Mobile (GER)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Agritubel (FRA)
Ceramiche Panaria-Navigare (IRL)
Chocolade Jacques (BEL)
Comunitat Valenciana (ESP)
Kaiku (ESP)
Landbouwkrediet-Colnago (BEL)
Naturino-Sapore di Mare (ITA)
Unibet.com (BEL)

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ebola
Archived post

13 July 2006, 14:42 UTC #2

Sounds interesting ... is this some spare time project between fellow enthusiasts ?
Yup texturing enviroments is very labour intensive isn't it..
I've not actually played any cycling games, could you describe the solo riding control system in more detail ... since I would imagine gearchange/cadence/wind/hills etc could actually give quite a bit more to it than just button bashing ?
I work in the games industry myself by the way; our company primarily makes racing games.
None of my colleagues are particularly enthralled by the concept of a cycling game .. or cycling generally 🙁
I guess cycling is the opposite of most activities covered by the games industry in (a) that it's quite accessible for normal people (ok not competitively maybe) and (b) much more fun in real life compared to onscreen. Unlike say WW2 or driving an F1 car etc etc. Then again, for the cycling enthusiast / casual gamer there may well be more appeal - as with any sport. Rockstar recently did a decent next-gen table tennis game, of all things, inspired by the potential for animation techniques on the new consoles & trying to push intuitive control..
On a vaguely related note, as a personal hobby probject I was contemplating taking some of the rather nice assets in our office (city models created by a team, or should i say army, of 40 artists) and making the ultimate VR trainer. Ultimately I never bothered getting round to it since in my spare time I prefer to actually get away from the keyboard and actually ride my bike 🙂 Maybe next winter..
"if you made that, you'd never leave your room and we'd never see you again!" commented one of my colleauges on hearing the concept 🙂
I beleive there was a cycle-trainer-game perhipheral for the PS2 but that got discontinued. Being the biggest sector of the games-market, that would indicate it's not a concept with mass appeal unfortunately.
I still may yet be able to get a bicycle in as a cheat mode in our next game since it does does involve motorbikes.. i get funny looks when i suggest it though..
Best of luck with this project ! I look forward to seeing it..

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PartisanRanger
Archived post

13 July 2006, 17:45 UTC #3

Sounds like a great idea, I'd been hoping that someone would make a try at a cycling sim of some sort eventually. Any chance we could get some screenshots?

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Kallenovsky
Archived post

13 July 2006, 22:55 UTC #4

As I've mentioned on Gamespot's forums about this game that we can't release images until the texturing is done, terribly sorry Partisan Ranger.
I'm not too much of a gamer since I entered my 20's. This is really just a project not at all a full-time thing. That's why it's taking so long. Also the fact that we aren't a very large group of people working on this attributes to the length in time. But time and effort equals high quality and patience is the key. We as a group all believe fellow enthusiasts have been robbed of quality gameplay. Sure, Pro Cycling Manager is out there and it's a nice game but the texturing isn't done well and everything is very patchy. The music, most notably, is very poor. Not to mention not everybody likes the idea of sitting around watching the cyclists move without much else to offer than managing controls. There isn't detailed action or realism to how the game is presented. It's also surely not worth its hefty price tag that's for sure.
We wanted to make something for fans and really for ourselves. You know what I mean? Start up a high quality game and play if you're too tired to go out. Create yourself in it if you like. That's the thing we want to go for. We lost two members a year back after they went aboard UBIsoft in Montréal to work on maps for a first person shooter. I believe the next Rainbow Six title on the PC. But no matter, we just carried on without em'. It's very difficult of a process to make the cycling engine but we're very satisfied with the current version that is being re-mastered into the final.
As for your question, Ebola...
[font=Verdana]"I've not actually played any cycling games, could you describe the solo riding control system in more detail ... since I would imagine gearchange/cadence/wind/hills etc could actually give quite a bit more to it than just button bashing ?"[/font]
All of the wind changes (weather in general), and the other stuff will be factored in to how you can ride and how riders will be able to adapt. We all know some of the weaker riders cannot perform that well when it's too windy, but sometimes those things happen. The rumble on your [font=Verdana]Logitech Rumblepad Pro 2[/font] (required for best gameplay results: think of the PS2 controller for appearance) will respond to that issue and give you a hell of a time in trying to operate in poor weather situations whatever it may be. Everything becomes more difficult on certain situations. Here's a good example of how you won't just be mashing buttons.
Tested during a storm with medium rainfall factoring in on a descent the rider (custom rider) had a poor balance statistic and because of this he was extremely difficult to control in such horrendous weather. Eventually he ended up crashing, which I might add ended up looking fairly cool as well as nasty since we added a motion capture sequence for rider falls. (All performed by a friend of ours) It's all about balancing out with your left and right analog stick, each performing a different task. Your left analog stick will allow you to control the bike as you try to turn. The right stick is used to position your rider differently on the bike. It's very sensitive so you have to constantly be aware of what's going on as in real life. Too much pressure on the front and there you go over the handle bars. Yes there is blood. You will use the buttons that are positioned on the controller's top like L1 and R1 to move the front of the bike for more accurate turns or to help avoid crashes, etc. You know what I mean about it, yeah? Ok I hope that sums up the basic controls of the rider, though there is plenty more detail I can't write it all out.
There will be buttons for tactics, all sorts like individuals and team that way you can still control the entire team but focus on your one rider to get the big win or gain good time overall by knowing you can do it better than the computer AI will. We all know a game can't be that smart anyway. There will be heart monitors to keep track of so that you don't kill off your riders by making mistakes. Warnings will come often to help you better control how you play (you can turn this off) though I doubt any seasoned fan doesn't know how the pros control their paces and strategy. It's there to help though, just in case you need it.
You use different buttons to cycle. You don't have to continuously tap a button to peddle that'll be strenuous and irritating. So your rider will always go at a normal pace (unless you brake or use the slow down button) and as with Pro Cycling Manager you can set the riders' paces so that they will either ride consistently slower or faster, etc. To sprint you must button mash this single peddling button I'm afraid, but it's a sprint after all so[font=Verdana] [/font]I see no problems with this, right? This means you control how fast he is, this also depends on his sprinting ability too of course. To make your rider "coast" down a hill just hold the basic peddling button down and he will do everything for you that he doesn't need to peddle any further until you release the button. It's all free flow and fun easy going material so far. Most of the basics are done by the rider himself depending on what you're telling him do. I hope these control explanations were helpful in better understanding and that they can be deemed as a great idea for a cycling game. We've worked hard to make this work just right.
Any other questions just ask.

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