Will Riis be next ??

fscyclist said:

CSC is the #1 ranked team for the past 2 years. Because Disco is #1 in your mind doesn't make it true.

Do you actually believe what you write or are you just trying to get a rise?

One wonders how someone who doped for 5 years due to "ambition" could "produce" the No. 1 team in cycling 100% dope free (oops, let's forget about Basso and Tyler).

Do we conclude that there was been no doping at CSC over the past several years? Then how could they have won vs. doped up teams like (some here say) USPS/DC, etc.? Could it be the Danish pastries?

Serafino said:

One wonders how someone who doped for 5 years due to "ambition" could "produce" the No. 1 team in cycling 100% dope free (oops, let's forget about Basso and Tyler).

Do we conclude that there was been no doping at CSC over the past several years? Then how could they have won vs. doped up teams like (some here say) USPS/DC, etc.? Could it be the Danish pastries?

When did I ever imply that there was no doping at CSC? I merely stated that Riis had much to lose by coming clean as DS of the #1 team in cycling. I think last year was a wake up call and certain teams made a dedicated effort to begin fixing things. Other teams chose to hire individuals heavily implicated in doping. Discovery, Tinkoff, and Astana come to mind.

Really it doesn't matter, though....the cards are falling and the other teams are going to take the fall as well. Riis is smart for coming out now and getting it over with. It will be much more painful when those individuals who have gone to great lenghts to deny everything have evidence presented against them. People are talking. And when respected people like Zabel are spilling the beans, then you can certainly expect there will be much to follow.

Riis is not smart. He came out only when it was untenable not to do so. So many teammates from 1996 Telekom TdF team admit EPO use and he's going to continue to deny it?

Remember when the allegations came out a couple of months ago. What was his reaction then .... 'let's not talk about the past'.

If he gave a damn he would have come out last year. Not when it was obvious that he had no alternative. This "confession" is about salvaging his business.

Serafino said:

Riis is not smart. He came out only when it was untenable not to do so. So many teammates from 1996 Telekom TdF team admit EPO use and he's going to continue to deny it?

Remember when the allegations came out a couple of months ago. What was his reaction then .... 'let's not talk about the past'.

If he gave a damn he would have come out last year. Not when it was obvious that he had no alternative. This "confession" is about salvaging his business.

He is smart. His statement from last year proves it. He never denied doping, nor did he go to great lengths to defend something he knew had a high likelihood of being exposed. Salvaging your business is probably a smart thing to do.

He is smart to come out now. To deny and prolong would be a huge mistake and would just bring more scrutiny upon him and the team and likely lose sponsors.

The people who aren't smart are those who continue to deny while everything is falling down around them. Do you think Basso was smart for saying "I only attempted to dope."? He looks like a fool. He made his team look foolish, and they are rightly going to suffer the consequences of that.

DV1976 said:

I 've never liked Riis but I think that what he did today is commendable. It takes guts to go public and say what he said and, no matter what we might say here, to trash (essentially) his achievements as an athlete the way he did maybe shows that he believes in something and wants to preserve it even it means sacrificing himself.
He could have denied everything like certain other ex cyclists and directeur sportifs and either go on happily as the DS of CSC or resign "disgusted with the rumours and innuendo that are being perpetrated by his enemies and the enemies of cycling"...
If all DS were as honest as Riis was today and willing to draw a line and start afresh then there would be hope for cycling. But with guys like Bryuneel and Lefevre around this isn't going to happen.

Word.

Honest? He lied for ages? Did he come out on his own for the love of the sport or only after a half dozen former teammates, officials, etc., came out before him?

Get over yourselves. Riis is a calculating [censored]. If Zabel et al. hadn't come out, Riis would have kept his secret until the grave. Nothing smart about it.

He was backed against the wall. Had no way out, and simply tried to spin his doping as something that happened long ago but had no connection to the present.

Well, Basso, Tyler, were both top CSC men who doped (or "thought about it" 😉 ) while Riis was their leader and mentor.

If this was Bruyneel you'd be calling for his throat. Riis, despite a decade of lies is somehow painted as a man of virtue and a hero. 🙄

Riis's confession - as late as it is - is a welcome development and it deserves some credit.
It should be noted that the only current rider (Zabel) and current DS (Riis), have actually confessed to doping (forget Aldag - he had his chance in June 06 when he preeaching about TMO being clean - knowing that they weren't).

This is good for Riis/Zabel and good for the sport and I hope it will benefit the sport in the long run.

My mind goes back to 1998 - remember the standup argument between Riis and LucLeBlanc when the peloton were on strike?
Dramatic times back then.
The footage of that day stays with me - Riis and LeBlanc toe to toe pointing at each other.

I wonder how BigMig's feeling??
That stage to Les Arcs in 1996 had more drama than the last decade put together.
The day Indurain showed he was human and not a cycling freak.

Serafino said:

Honest? He lied for ages? Did he come out on his own for the love of the sport or only after a half dozen former teammates, officials, etc., came out before him?

Get over yourselves. Riis is a calculating [censored]. If Zabel et al. hadn't come out, Riis would have kept his secret until the grave. Nothing smart about it.

He was backed against the wall. Had no way out, and simply tried to spin his doping as something that happened long ago but had no connection to the present.

Well, Basso, Tyler, were both top CSC men who doped (or "thought about it" 😉 ) while Riis was their leader and mentor.

If this was Bruyneel you'd be calling for his throat. Riis, despite a decade of lies is somehow painted as a man of virtue and a hero. 🙄

Today he was honest and took responsibility for his actions. That is more than we can say of anyone else in his position. He wasn't forced into a confession. He could've clammed up, hired lawyers and asked people for donations, but he didn't.

fscyclist said:

Today he was honest and took responsibility for his actions. That is more than we can say of anyone else in his position. He wasn't forced into a confession. He could've clammed up, hired lawyers and asked people for donations, but he didn't.

Agreed.
He spoke plainly and without ambiguity.

I guess it's down to each and every rider in the sport to decide if they want to do what's right.....or they can continue to deny and setup fundraisers asking gullible supporters to part with their readies to fund their defence.

limerickman said:

It should be noted that the only current rider (Zabel) and current DS (Riis), have actually confessed to doping (forget Aldag - he had his chance in June 06 when he preeaching about TMO being clean - knowing that they weren't).

Don't forget Millar.

JRMDC said:

Don't forget Millar.

Millar did spring to mind as I was writing that message - but he confessed while "helping the police with their enquiries" as we say in these parts (ie under
arrest)

Hardly a case of volunteering the info with Millar.
(not that Riis was exactly volunteering either, but you get my drift)

doctorSpoc said:

and also from Puerto we see that transfusions have come back into fashion for the VERY cautious since with microdose method you still at some point need to take larger amounts of EPO and then just top it up with micro doses... still chance of and out of competition positive... transfusion there is no chance... unless your heamatologist is being watched by the spanish police that is :eek:

It looks like the top guys are using transfusions in conjuction with EPO. Without EPO it could take up to six weeks for the body to replace extracted blood. With EPO it would be much quicker.

Ullrich had four and a half liters of blood in storage; plus it looks like he had one or two units transfused during the 2006 Giro, so he may have had five to five and a half liters of blood taken out in five to six months. If he had two units extracted every four to six weeks then he would be spending a good chunk of his training time in a blood deficient state. Not a condition that would be good for optimal training. EPO use may be necessary for the heavy duty blood transfusions that the top riders are using.

Dr. Prentice Steffan claimed (before Armstrong's lawyers shut him up) that riders were transfusing right before a stage but after the time in the the morning that UCI blood tests are performed. Then the blood would be dumped after the stage. Before this year's Giro it was announced that blood tests could be taken at any time. This leads me to believe the UCI has information that something is going on that the 8 a.m. tests won't catch.

Personally, I think this is how Armstrong was doping. He was racing key stages with his Hematocrit at 53 or 54--right about where everyone was in the mid to late 90s--while everyone else was limited to 49 - 50.

limerickman said:

I wonder how BigMig's feeling??
That stage to Les Arcs in 1996 had more drama than the last decade put together.
The day Indurain showed he was human and not a cycling freak.

What do you think happened to Miguel that day Limerickman??? Did he take EPO? Just a bad day? ....

limerickman said:

Riis's confession - as late as it is - is a welcome development and it deserves some credit.
It should be noted that the only current rider (Zabel) and current DS (Riis), have actually confessed to doping (forget Aldag - he had his chance in June 06 when he preeaching about TMO being clean - knowing that they weren't).

This is good for Riis/Zabel and good for the sport and I hope it will benefit the sport in the long run.

My mind goes back to 1998 - remember the standup argument between Riis and LucLeBlanc when the peloton were on strike?
Dramatic times back then.
The footage of that day stays with me - Riis and LeBlanc toe to toe pointing at each other.

I wonder how BigMig's feeling??
That stage to Les Arcs in 1996 had more drama than the last decade put together.
The day Indurain showed he was human and not a cycling freak.

I think you are refereing to the arguments between some of the riders and Riis, where Riss was apointed by the general peleton to be the spokesman and he tried to convince the other riders not to ruin the tdf by leaving it, and there were some discusions and pointing...

Riss and Leblanc were never pointing at eachother, they talked about how to get thriough this... I think it was the stage to Pamplona where Indurain had hes epithical ending.. Les Archs??

I do think that Riis didn't have to come clean. He wasn't cornered and he could have gone on happily like other DS pretending that he didn't know anything. He chose full disclosure (or whatever passes as full disclosure in cycling these days) and this is commendable. Riis' claim to fame was that TDF win which made him very famous especially in his country which is not noted for its cycling tradition. And he took all these away from himself in a very unambiguous manner. Personally, he isn't to gain anything out of it and it is likely that he will lose his job but I think (or I'd like to think) that he did it to protect his athletes and his team. If he is sincere in his efforts for a clean sport remains to be seen but I would like to think that he set an example today.
I've always disliked him but today I was impressed.

fscyclist said:

Today he was honest and took responsibility for his actions. That is more than we can say of anyone else in his position. He wasn't forced into a confession. He could've clammed up, hired lawyers and asked people for donations, but he didn't.

Yes today was massive. It was the fullest confession we have had yet. Riis was a Tour de France winner. He said come and take my yellow jersey if you want it.

What balls! No other TdF champion seems to have anywhere near the clout so say it.

He states 'everyone else was doing it'. He knows no other riders of time are going to come out and claim they should be the rightful winner of the 1996 TdF, because they were all doped up.

This silence itself says a lot.

We need more big stars of the sport to come out with the truth. Big Mig, Merckx...

I can't see Armstrong doing it he has too much invested in the lies. But if doesn't matter if a lot of others do so.

I didn't think a whole lot of Riis. Mr 60% who had master doper Basso on his team but didn't know anything about it. Whilst I still find that situation suss, given the closeness of Basso's and Riis' relationship; my opinion of Riis has now gone up 100 fold.

He really did show that he has got big cojones.

Frigo's Luggage said:

Armstrong cannot admit doping because of insurance fraud issues. He just sued the insurance company that paid his bonus from one of his Tours. During the arbitration he testified, presumably under oath, that he didn't dope. If this turns out to be incorrect, he can go to jail for insurance fraud and for perjury. Floyd might not be able to admit it now either because he would have the same perjury concerns.

It wouldn't suprise me if that insurance company isn't watching this whole dope outings with a close eye. It might end up leading to something in their favour.

Prano said:

I think you are refereing to the arguments between some of the riders and Riis, where Riss was apointed by the general peleton to be the spokesman and he tried to convince the other riders not to ruin the tdf by leaving it, and there were some discusions and pointing...

Riss and Leblanc were never pointing at eachother, they talked about how to get thriough this... I think it was the stage to Pamplona where Indurain had hes epithical ending.. Les Archs??

Chambery to Les Arcs was the 7th stage in the 1996 TDF : the stage was won by Luc LeBlanc.
It was a miserable day's raced - ice cold and raining over th Madeline and Cormet de Roseland.

Stephane Heulot was in Yellow and become the first rider in the modern era to abandon the race while holding the jersey because the cold got in on his tendons on stage 7.
Bruyneel was almost killed as he careered off the road in to a ravine only to be saved by a tree.

Indurain suffering from the bonk started to lose ground in the last 20 kms.
The power just drained from him as Rominger. LeBlanc, Escartin, Olano, Virenque broke away.
That stage is imprinted in my memory.
Indurain took a drink within the last 10kms from the Banesto team car - and
was penalised 10 secs.
His opponent Alex Zulle (ONCE) actually offered him a drink - which he refused.
Indurain crossed the line 4mins down.
He said after the stage that he couldn't remember cycling the last 10kms.
For me it's been the most dramatic days racing I've seen in the last 10 years of the TDF.

You're correct to suggest that he lost time in Pamplona - he came in 8 mins after the winner in that stage.
That was another really tough day in the mountains - Chris Boardman said it was the toughest day he ever experienced in any race.

Always liked BigMig.

sopas said:

What do you think happened to Miguel that day Limerickman??? Did he take EPO? Just a bad day? ....

I think it was simply a bad day : weather was miersable and he only really started to go poorly in the last 20kms on stage 7 Chambery-Les Arcs.

Indurain said that he was frozen that day, on stage 7.
He said that he had banked on the weather being warmer and had come in to the TDF on the basis that he would drop the little bit of extra weight that he had in week 1 (which was in Northern France and cold) and that he would be at his optimum race weight in the mountains and warm.
Problem was they raced so hard week 1, that in week 2 his weight was down but that he had no protection against the unseasonally cold weather in the Alps during week 2.

It was so cold that Le Monetier les Bains to Sestrières in the Alps was cut to 46kms because of snow and that was on stage 9, in 1996 TDF.

Lim,

You didn't answer sopas question. You always like BigMig but did he take EPO in your opinion?