Why no winter helmets?

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:12:36 -0500 (EST), [email hidden]

(Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman') said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

Nobody rides in the ice.

Quoted message said:

Correction: nobody of commercial significance, enough to justify a production run of helmets (with
all the associated capital costs, tooling etc) rides in the ice.

Quoted message said:

Ergo, no winter helmets.

Then how do you explain the commercial availability of studded bicycle tires?

sheldonbrown.com622.htmlOpen ↗

How commercially availble are these at *your* LBS?

Not very.

I might imagine greater street-corner availability of these in Finland, say, where bicycle usage is
higher regardless of snow or ice.

-Luigi www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:58:11 -0500, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure someone will pop out and point to one, but in the mainstream bike stores the helmets are
all designed for summer, keep the head cool, use. Sure you can cover them. Put a liner, but can't
be too thick, inside. And a head/earband to cover the ears, but the strap across the forehead is
too wide for between my glasses and helmet.

The winter helmet would of course be insulated. With some sort of earflaps. And it could be lighter
than a motorcycle helmet.

I have some friends who cycle in winter wearing ski helmets.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

Luigi de Guzman said:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:12:36 -0500 (EST), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Then how do you explain the commercial availability of studded bicycle tires?

sheldonbrown.com622.htmlOpen ↗

How commercially availble are these at *your* LBS?

Not very.

I had just read this far when I wanted to mention that here in Finland you'll find studded winter
tires in every bike shop and even some bigger supermarkets sell them.

Quoted message said:

I might imagine greater street-corner availability of these in Finland, say, where bicycle usage
is higher regardless of snow or ice.

And still I haven't ever had or even tried bike with studded tires. =) My 'better' bike has xc tires
and other has semi-slick tires and I find both usable at winter.

Perhaps someone I'll get those, but so far I haven't needed.

vrtx said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:12:36 -0500 (EST), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Then how do you explain the commercial availability of studded bicycle tires?

sheldonbrown.com622.htmlOpen ↗

How commercially availble are these at *your* LBS?

Not very.

I had just read this far when I wanted to mention that here in Finland you'll find studded winter
tires in every bike shop and even some bigger supermarkets sell them.

Now *that's* availability! In the USA, that kind of availability is reserved for commonly-used
sporting equipment. Like Yugoslav-surplus SKS carbines.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I might imagine greater street-corner availability of these in Finland, say, where bicycle usage
is higher regardless of snow or ice.

And still I haven't ever had or even tried bike with studded tires. =) My 'better' bike has xc
tires and other has semi-slick tires and I find both usable at winter.

Semi-slicks in winter? H'mmm.

I imagine that in Finland your streets are cleared better than ours here in Virginia--here in
Virginia we see snow and ice seldom enough that there is never enough equipment available to clear
the roads of ice..

That, and your average Finn might be a better driver in winter conditions than your average
Virginian. (Heck, if you could produce that rally-driver, Makkinen (sp?)--).

The mere presence of snow and ice chases me off the bike here. Already dozy drivers, driving at the
fair-weather, dry-pavement speed limit make me extremely insecure in traffic.

-Luigi Rain? no problem. Ice? Problem.

www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves

Quoted message said:

Perhaps someone I'll get those, but so far I haven't needed.

Luigi de Guzman said:

Semi-slicks in winter? H'mmm.

I see many ordinary people riding their low-end bikes with basically slick tyres in the winter. Most
of these people are not avid cyclists, just people who've developed a habit of using a bike for
casual transportation. Obviously they stay upright pretty well, or they would probably give it up.
Being a complete loser myself, I stick to studded tyres.

Quoted message said:

I imagine that in Finland your streets are cleared better than ours here in Virginia--here in
Virginia we see snow and ice seldom enough that there is never enough equipment available to clear
the roads of ice..

That's true. If it snows at night or the day before, there's basically enough equipment to clear all
roads and streets of major signifigance before people need to get to work in the morning. Many parts
of Finland don't get all that much snow, though, so this is not a daily routine. But if it wasn't
possible, life would obviously be difficult. I don't think you can get rid of the ice very well if
the temperature is much below zero, but it's not that big of a problem.

Quoted message said:

That, and your average Finn might be a better driver in winter conditions than your average
Virginian. (Heck, if you could produce that rally-driver, Makkinen (sp?)--).

This is also true. People have the experience, although equipment helps too. Winter tyres (usually
studded) are mandatory for cars in the winter months. As a rule, snow and ice in the winter have no
real effect on traffic. Statistically, there are less accidents in the winter, as people tend to
drive a bit more carefully and hurry less.

-as

My regular helmet, ventilation and all, with a TREK balaclava under it ($20) has taken me down to
-10F this winter. I've had 7 days of below 0 F riding in Milwaukee so far this winter, and I did get
frostbitten cheeks on the coldest of them. But with the balaclava underneath, my head is less of a
problem to keep warm than my hands or feet.

"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure someone will pop out and point to one, but in the mainstream bike stores the helmets are
all designed for summer, keep the head cool, use. Sure you can cover them. Put a liner, but can't
be too thick, inside. And

a

Quoted message said:

head/earband to cover the ears, but the strap across the forehead is too wide for between my
glasses and helmet.

The winter helmet would of course be insulated. With some sort of

earflaps.

Quoted message said:

And it could be lighter than a motorcycle helmet.

Don <donwiss at panix.com>.

Luigi de Guzman said:

vrtx said:

I had just read this far when I wanted to mention that here in Finland you'll find studded winter
tires in every bike shop and even some bigger supermarkets sell them.

Now *that's* availability! In the USA, that kind of availability is reserved for commonly-used
sporting equipment. Like Yugoslav-surplus SKS carbines.

I've lived here in Tampere (pop. 200'000) for 3 years and I have no glue where's gun shop (or
whatever it's called). =)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And still I haven't ever had or even tried bike with studded tires. =) My 'better' bike has xc
tires and other has semi-slick tires and I find both usable at winter.

Semi-slicks in winter? H'mmm.

When there's a LOT snow tread pattern matters, but in normal winter conditions it really doesn't
matter what kind of tires you drive, rough xc tire isn't any better on ice than normal city/touring
tire. In such conditions something like nokiantyres.comextreme296.jpgOpen ↗ might
be a lot better. Atleast extreme296 looks like something you could do faster cornering with.

Someday I'll buy those just to see how fast you can go on ice. =)

Quoted message said:

I imagine that in Finland your streets are cleared better than ours here in Virginia--here in
Virginia we see snow and ice seldom enough that there is never enough equipment available to clear
the roads of ice..

Usually street are ok (well some people always complain..). There are something like 1-3 such
mornings in winter that I consider it's better stay home unless I really have to go somewhere. =)

Quoted message said:

That, and your average Finn might be a better driver in winter conditions than your average
Virginian. (Heck, if you could produce that rally-driver, Makkinen (sp?)--).

Tommi Mäkinen, 5 time world champion, he retired this season.

Well.. people have to adapt in these conditions, besides, in car somekind of winter tires are
compulsory, studded or not, but from december to end of february it's illegal to use 'summer' tires,
as we call them. =)

Quoted message said:

The mere presence of snow and ice chases me off the bike here. Already dozy drivers, driving at
the fair-weather, dry-pavement speed limit make me extremely insecure in traffic.

Here it's seldom necessary to drive amond other traffic, cycle paths almost everywhere.

One annoying thing with snow is that you really can't go offroad, and I've always liked dh and xc
riding. Big-air with unfortunate landing doesn't hurt as bad when it's snowy. =)

Quoted message said:

-Luigi Rain? no problem. Ice? Problem.

I prefer ice over rain. It's only slippery and cold but it doesn't soak you. =)

- vrtx

I have a set of Nokiann studded tires, and used them a couple of winters (in Milwaukee), but haven't
the las two winters. They're no help in loose snow, and unnecessary in packed snow or dirty ice.
They do help on slick ice. But OTOH, they are noisy on dry pavement and the extra friction is a
further drag on speed, which is already pretty bad in the winter.

"vrtx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

vrtx said:

I had just read this far when I wanted to mention that here in Finland you'll find studded
winter tires in every bike shop and even some bigger supermarkets sell them.

Now *that's* availability! In the USA, that kind of availability is reserved for commonly-used
sporting equipment. Like Yugoslav-surplus SKS carbines.

I've lived here in Tampere (pop. 200'000) for 3 years and I have no glue where's gun shop (or
whatever it's called). =)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And still I haven't ever had or even tried bike with studded tires. =) My 'better' bike has xc
tires and other has semi-slick tires and I find both usable at winter.

Semi-slicks in winter? H'mmm.

When there's a LOT snow tread pattern matters, but in normal winter conditions it really doesn't
matter what kind of tires you drive, rough xc tire isn't any better on ice than normal
city/touring tire. In such conditions something like
nokiantyres.comextreme296.jpgOpen ↗ might be a lot better. Atleast extreme296
looks like something you could do faster cornering with.

Someday I'll buy those just to see how fast you can go on ice. =)

Quoted message said:

I imagine that in Finland your streets are cleared better than ours here in Virginia--here in
Virginia we see snow and ice seldom enough that there is never enough equipment available to
clear the roads of ice..

Usually street are ok (well some people always complain..). There are something like 1-3 such
mornings in winter that I consider it's better

stay

Quoted message said:

home unless I really have to go somewhere. =)

Quoted message said:

That, and your average Finn might be a better driver in winter conditions than your average
Virginian. (Heck, if you could produce that rally-driver, Makkinen (sp?)--).

Tommi Mäkinen, 5 time world champion, he retired this season.

Well.. people have to adapt in these conditions, besides, in car somekind of winter tires are
compulsory, studded or not, but from december to end of february it's illegal to use 'summer'
tires, as we call them. =)

Quoted message said:

The mere presence of snow and ice chases me off the bike here. Already dozy drivers, driving at
the fair-weather, dry-pavement speed limit make me extremely insecure in traffic.

Here it's seldom necessary to drive amond other traffic, cycle paths almost everywhere.

One annoying thing with snow is that you really can't go offroad, and I've always liked dh and xc
riding. Big-air with unfortunate landing doesn't

hurt

Quoted message said:

as bad when it's snowy. =)

Quoted message said:

-Luigi Rain? no problem. Ice? Problem.

I prefer ice over rain. It's only slippery and cold but it doesn't soak you. =)

- vrtx

In article <[email hidden]>, donwiss@no_spam.com says...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm sure someone will pop out and point to one, but in the mainstream bike stores the helmets
are all designed for summer, keep the head cool, use. Sure you can cover them. Put a liner, but
can't be too thick, inside. And a head/earband to cover the ears, but the strap across the forehead
is too wide for between my glasses and helmet. The winter helmet would of course be insulated. With
some sort of earflaps. And it could be lighter than a motorcycle helmet.

I bought a helmet one size bigger than usual. I can then wear a hat under it with no problems. The
hat comes down over my ears, so I don't need anything else. Bell use to sell helmets with reebok
pump technology with a bladder fit system instead of different size pads that are now used. With
that system you would buy a helmet that fit when fully inflated and then deflate it wot wear a hat
underneath.
----------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

The mere presence of snow and ice chases me off the bike here. Already dozy drivers, driving at the
fair-weather, dry-pavement speed limit make me extremely insecure in traffic.

I know your roads. And I think that's reasonable, i. e. I won't contradict. You should move to DC,
though, they really had it together through the recent weather events. Downtown, there was no
significant difficulty encountered, and that's a first.

For 17 degree Fahrenheit temperatures in the morning and icing conditions the City did well with its
deicing strategy, and, in fact, it was a pleasant ride on those occasions.

I did have to walk a couple of blocks one morning, but I may have been too cautious, I didn't like
the look of the slush on M Street.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had another major weather event before March, locally, that's
the pattern.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:33:32 -0500,
<[email hidden]>,

Luigi de Guzman said:

This is what I get for drinking all those UK pints of ale.

Imperial pint = 0.567 litres U.S. pint = 0.473 litres

I'm old enough to be bi-mensural but can't remember the last time I bought a gallon of anything.
--
zk

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:20:56 -0800, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:33:32 -0500, <[email hidden]>, Luigi de Guzman

Quoted message said:

This is what I get for drinking all those UK pints of ale.

Imperial pint = 0.567 litres

um, I think it's 568 mL to the Imperial Pint. I know my beer fordamnsure.

Quoted message said:

U.S. pint = 0.473 litres

Which is why I can never escape the feeling that I've been ripped off when I buy a pint stateside.

Quoted message said:

I'm old enough to be bi-mensural but can't remember the last time I bought a gallon of anything.

that's what official action will do for you. My chem. teacher used to rail against LBJ constantly
for not compelling the USA to adopt a 'hard metric' standard rather than the 'soft metric' that
apparently prevailed.

It took the Bolshevik Revolution for the Russians to stop demarcating their rifle-sights in arshini
and start re-issuing them in metres.

-Luigi www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves

Alex Rodriguez said:

Bell use to sell helmets with reebok pump technology with a bladder fit system instead of
different size pads that are now used. With that system you would buy a helmet that fit when
fully inflated and then deflate it wot wear a hat underneath.

That's the wave of the future! Soon, they'll take the next logical step, and total protection will
finally be ours!

sheldonbrown.comairbag helmet.htmlOpen ↗

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

Zoot Katz said:

I'm old enough to be bi-mensural

And cranky enough to be pre-menstrual!

Bill "someone had to go for it" S.

frkrygow' 'frkrygow said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Bell use to sell helmets with reebok pump technology with a bladder fit system instead of
different size pads that are now used. With that system you would buy a helmet that fit when
fully inflated and then deflate it wot wear a hat underneath.

That's the wave of the future! Soon, they'll take the next logical step, and total protection will
finally be ours!

sheldonbrown.comairbag helmet.htmlOpen ↗

OMG that's funny! Snork.

Bill "didn't think you had it in you, Frank" S.

I"ll admit to not wearing a helmet during the winter...

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure someone will pop out and point to one, but in the mainstream bike stores the helmets are
all designed for summer, keep the head cool, use. Sure you can cover them. Put a liner, but can't
be too thick, inside. And

a

Quoted message said:

head/earband to cover the ears, but the strap across the forehead is too wide for between my
glasses and helmet.

The winter helmet would of course be insulated. With some sort of

earflaps.

Quoted message said:

And it could be lighter than a motorcycle helmet.

Don <donwiss at panix.com>.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:22:41 -0500, "Mike Beauchamp"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I"ll admit to not wearing a helmet during the winter...

Interesting that you feel you have to "admit" to that. When it's really cold a balaclava is just the
job, forget the polystyrene foam deflector beanie.

And if you're worried about hitting your head when hitting ice, you can get a recumbent :-)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at the University of Washington.

Mike Beauchamp <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I"ll admit to not wearing a helmet during the winter...

really? winter (when icy) is the only time i do wear a helmet.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Benjamin Weiner

BDon Wiss donwiss@no_spam.com said:

I'm sure someone will pop out and point to one, but in the mainstream bike stores the helmets are
all designed for summer, keep the head cool, use. Sure you can cover them. Put a liner, but can't
be too thick, inside. And a head/earband to cover the ears, but the strap across the forehead is
too wide for between my glasses and helmet.

Quoted message said:

The winter helmet would of course be insulated. With some sort of earflaps. And it could be
lighter than a motorcycle helmet.

Lots of options: Wear a hat, cap, or thin liner (polypro beanie) under a larger bike helmet. Ditto
but under a BMX-style bike helmet (little or no venting). Wear a snowboarding or skiing helmet.
Lined, covers ears, on seasonal closeout at a shop near you right now. [/B]

How do the snowboarding and skiing helments compare in impact protection, weigth, and price with cycling helmets?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Arthur Harris said:

"Luigi de Guzman" wrote:

..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ergo, no winter helmets.

market forces are a [censored], arent' they?

Quoted message said:

So while demand for a winter helmet might not be huge initially, I think enough winter riders would
buy them to make it profitable.

Dunno... I know I wouldn't. As I go from summer (90F) to winter (-20F), there is a gradual change in
my head setup. Layering. ear flaps, helmet cover, thin hat, balaclava...

I wouldn't want the sudden jump to a warm helmet.

--
--
"It's a sad day for american capitalism when a man
can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park."
J. Moran