Who is Jesus

Who is this dude posting this [censored] in rec.running? That's the real
question.

Now- because you honestly have no clue what you are writing about, let me
help you.

The answer to your questions- all knowing, all powerful, invisible, etc., is
incredibly simple. It's called the "kenosis." Literally, the Greek word
means "the emptying." It's found in Philippians 2-
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality
with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very
nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in
appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even
death on a cross."

Jesus emptied himself and became the ultimate servant. He chose to become
totally dependent upon the father while walking this earth.

Since you are using the Bible as your base of authority, how about this- the
Bible claims Jesus is God and Jesus claims he is God.
Bible- "He shall be called Emmanuel, God with us." "In the beginning was
the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God...The Word was made
flesh and dwelt among me." (John 1) Of Jesus- "He shall be called Prince of
Peace, Mighty God..." (Isaiah)
Jesus himself said- "I and the Father are one." The greek word used means
literally "one in essence or nature," not in agreement. The disciples-
"Show us the Father and that will be enough." Jesus- "Have I been so long
with you and you still do not know me? If you've seen me, you've seen the
Father."
Thomas upon recognizing this truth "bowed down at his feet and cried out,
'My Lord and My God.'"
Jesus- "Before Abraham was, I AM." (using a covenant name reserved for God
alone).

You wanna worship Allah- go ahead. But you wanna come into a rec.running
board and post things that are not true and have no basis in reality,
well...you'll get schooled, my friend.

By the way, getting ready to run up a mountain in a few moments. Love my
North Face Arnuva Boa's. Great shoes, but the uppers are beginning to fall
apart after only 150 miles or so. Guess I've been a bit tough on 'em!

"aassime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Who is Jesus?
:
: Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
: second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
: used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
: doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
: consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
: not drawn out of context:
:
: 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
: When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
: limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
: knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
: son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
: His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
: admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
: proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
: God.
:
: 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
: While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
: power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
: "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
: what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
: of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
: just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
: which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
: He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
: own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
: is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
:
: 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
: God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
: upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
: whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
: my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
: 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
: God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
: then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
: me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
: prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
: Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
: pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
: 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
: admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
: to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
:
: 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
: While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
: this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
: any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
: time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
: 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
: spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
: heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
: clear proof that Jesus was not God.
:
: 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
: acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
: his own.
: Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
: equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
: of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
: than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
: Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
: one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
: between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
: God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
: gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
: equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
: be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
: of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
: not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
: so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
: and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
: will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
: and therefore Jesus is not God.
:
: Conclusion
: The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
: about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
: not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
: basis have you come to believe otherwise?
:
: My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
: is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
: presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
:
: If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
: Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
:
:
: What is the word of God about Jesus:
:
: A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
: That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
: are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
: Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
: (Qur'an 19:34,35).
:
: And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
: have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
: of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
: down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
: and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
: the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
: (Qur'an 19:88-93).
:
: Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
: created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
: 3:59).
:
: People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
: not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
: the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
: spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
: 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
: on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
: the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
: 4:171)
:
: B. Regarding Jesus being God:
: And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
: and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
: is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
: knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
: within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
: You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
: witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
: me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
: everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
:
: C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
: And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
: calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
: Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
: crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
: are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
: have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
: did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
: God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
: but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
: Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)
:

Just read the rest of your post. You sound almost like a Jehovah's Witness-
they use the same scriptures to deny deity of Christ.

"The Father is greater than I"- yep, kenosis. It's also called the economic
trinity and is a part of the headship tradition. Son serves the Father.
Spirit serves the Son and the Father. Yet the baptismal formula given in
Matthew 28 shows equality- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

"Why do you call me good? There is none good but God?" Jesus wasn't
denying his deity. He was saying that "If you're gonna call me good, you
need to recognize who I am." Why? Because the guy he was talking to
thought he himself was good and Jesus is saying only God is good. People in
and of themselves are not.

"userfriendly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: Who is this dude posting this [censored] in rec.running? That's the real
: question.
:
: Now- because you honestly have no clue what you are writing about, let me
: help you.
:
: The answer to your questions- all knowing, all powerful, invisible, etc.,
is
: incredibly simple. It's called the "kenosis." Literally, the Greek word
: means "the emptying." It's found in Philippians 2-
: "...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality
: with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the
very
: nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in
: appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--
even
: death on a cross."
:
: Jesus emptied himself and became the ultimate servant. He chose to become
: totally dependent upon the father while walking this earth.
:
: Since you are using the Bible as your base of authority, how about this-
the
: Bible claims Jesus is God and Jesus claims he is God.
: Bible- "He shall be called Emmanuel, God with us." "In the beginning was
: the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God...The Word was made
: flesh and dwelt among men." (John 1) Of Jesus- "He shall be called Prince
of
: Peace, Mighty God..." (Isaiah)
: Jesus himself said- "I and the Father are one." The greek word used means
: literally "one in essence or nature," not in agreement. The disciples-
: "Show us the Father and that will be enough." Jesus- "Have I been so long
: with you and you still do not know me? If you've seen me, you've seen the
: Father."
: Thomas upon recognizing this truth "bowed down at his feet and cried out,
: 'My Lord and My God.'"
: Jesus- "Before Abraham was, I AM." (using a covenant name reserved for
God
: alone).
:
: You wanna worship Allah- go ahead. But you wanna come into a rec.running
: board and post things that are not true and have no basis in reality,
: well...you'll get schooled, my friend.
:
: By the way, getting ready to run up a mountain in a few moments. Love my
: North Face Arnuva Boa's. Great shoes, but the uppers are beginning to
fall
: apart after only 150 miles or so. Guess I've been a bit tough on 'em!
:
:
:
:
:
: "aassime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
: news:[email hidden]...
:: Who is Jesus?
::
:: Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
:: second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
:: used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
:: doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
:: consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
:: not drawn out of context:
::
:: 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
:: When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
:: limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
:: knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
:: son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
:: His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
:: admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
:: proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
:: God.
::
:: 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
:: While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
:: power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
:: "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
:: what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
:: of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
:: just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
:: which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
:: He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
:: own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
:: is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
::
:: 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
:: God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
:: upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
:: whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
:: my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
:: 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
:: God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
:: then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
:: me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
:: prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
:: Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
:: pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
:: 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
:: admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
:: to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
::
:: 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
:: While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
:: this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
:: any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any
:: time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John
:: 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in
:: spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or
:: heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is
:: clear proof that Jesus was not God.
::
:: 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
:: acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
:: his own.
:: Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
:: equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
:: of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
:: than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17,
:: Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
:: one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
:: between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
:: God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
:: gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
:: equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine
:: be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will
:: of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did
:: not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do
:: so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself,
:: and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the
:: will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One
:: and therefore Jesus is not God.
::
:: Conclusion
:: The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
:: about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
:: not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
:: basis have you come to believe otherwise?
::
:: My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
:: is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
:: presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
::
:: If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
:: Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
::
::
:: What is the word of God about Jesus:
::
:: A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
:: That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
:: are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
:: Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
:: (Qur'an 19:34,35).
::
:: And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
:: have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
:: of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
:: down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
:: and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
:: the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
:: (Qur'an 19:88-93).
::
:: Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
:: created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
:: 3:59).
::
:: People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
:: not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
:: the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
:: spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
:: 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
:: on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
:: the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
:: 4:171)
::
:: B. Regarding Jesus being God:
:: And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
:: and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
:: is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
:: knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
:: within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
:: You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
:: witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
:: me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
:: everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
::
:: C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
:: And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
:: calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
:: Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
:: crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
:: are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
:: have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
:: did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
:: God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
:: but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
:: Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)
::
:
: