Wheelset suggestions to upgrade a Trek 720?

[cloudhead]

Hi, I am going to get a new wheelset for my 1985 Trek 720. The cantilevers reach 700c with ease. I will need to get the rear of the frame spread to accommodate a modern hub--the current is a Maillard Helicomatic and its pretty old.

I'm looking for dark anodized rims (trying to keep the original look), stainless spokes, reliable hubs, and im assuming a new freewheel/cogs? I'd like to keep it friction--i do still love that Huret Titanium derailer.

I'm a pretty big dude... lean but 6'7", 240 lbs and occasionally tour loaded up.

Thanks for any tips,

-Court

 

[LIEBO Bikes]

try Velicity Dyad rims for touring. Good looking, strong, you can pair them up with their hubs and it makes a real nice build. 24mm wide rims so you can go from 23-35mm tires no prob.

 

[cloudhead]

Thanks for the tip! It was a while ago so I ended up with the following:

• Salsa Delgado rims..made for cross and significantly stronger than many rims I checked out. heavier too, but I like to ride on trails as much as paved roads. I was looking at the Velocity line, but I like the reinforced strength of the Salsa. Otherwise I would have chosen Velocity--I have A23's by them on my sport bike.
• Schmidt SON28 Nabendynamo hub for the front wheel, for a nice bright headlight, or juice for the iphone.
• Phil Wood Rivy rear hub. I had the rear triangle of the bike cold-set to 135mm by a Supreme Master framebuilder--a cinch due to the trek's long, long 531 chainstays, and now ride with only a 1% dish in the wheel thanks to this hub.
• Tires are Panaracer Pasela TG 32c. Widest I could equip with fenders.

The bike is heavy by nature, but these wheels have a very high performance despite being so heavy-duty. Smooth as silk on roads, no problem with bumps, and handle dirt and even singletrack with no problem.

 

[Froze]

If your 240 pounds and are going to tour with an additional weight of 60 to 70 pounds of gear plus ride on trails you need a really beefy wheelset. Personally I would visit Peter White, probably the best wheel builder in the USA if not the world; see: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ Just tell them your weight, what your intentions are and they will build to suit. They built me a wheelset and it's been fantastic for not that much more then some dope at an LBS! I've only had one other wheelset built by an LBS that worked out great, all the other sets I ever had made from LBS's were basically not done right.

 

[cloudhead]

You do have to be careful of where you shop and have service done...and most of the bike shops around here are ****, being bought out by large bike manufacturers and becoming one-brand shops. But there is one called Willow Glen Bicycles, recently put under new ownership, that has a Master Mechanic named Tahn Von Rehmer who is nicknamed "Doctor Dynamo" because of his love for touring and randonneur wheels. He's a true 'Francophile' too, as you can see from the perfect mounting job he did on the racks and fenders. I can sit on that rear rack (although just for demonstration).

The wheels are as beefy as they can get! 36hole reinforced rims, best hubs on the planet. The Schmidt dynamo hub was actually purchased from Peter White via the bike shop (they have a sweet special order catalog). The rear hub was picked up directly from Phil Wood which is located just a couple miles from them. I was hoping for the ability to mount 35c tires, but with the fenders and the 25 year old frame design, 32c was as wide as I could get through the fork.


All in all the work my mechanic did on restoring my Trek is well beyond what I expected. So much that I have now sent the frame out for a full paint & decal restoration after this photo was taken.

 

[tonyzackery]

Originally Posted by cloudhead .

Nice bike and excellent styling touches. I'd ride it, and I'm not a touring type o' guy...

 

[cloudhead]

Thank you Tony.

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by cloudhead .

You do have to be careful of where you shop and have service done...and most of the bike shops around here are ****, being bought out by large bike manufacturers and becoming one-brand shops. But there is one called Willow Glen Bicycles, recently put under new ownership, that has a Master Mechanic named Tahn Von Rehmer who is nicknamed "Doctor Dynamo" because of his love for touring and randonneur wheels. He's a true 'Francophile' too, as you can see from the perfect mounting job he did on the racks and fenders. I can sit on that rear rack (although just for demonstration).

The wheels are as beefy as they can get! 36hole reinforced rims, best hubs on the planet. The Schmidt dynamo hub was actually purchased from Peter White via the bike shop (they have a sweet special order catalog). The rear hub was picked up directly from Phil Wood which is located just a couple miles from them. I was hoping for the ability to mount 35c tires, but with the fenders and the 25 year old frame design, 32c was as wide as I could get through the fork.

All in all the work my mechanic did on restoring my Trek is well beyond what I expected. So much that I have now sent the frame out for a full paint & decal restoration after this photo was taken.





That is a fantastic looking bike, you also did a great job accessorizing it. I have an 85 Schwinn LeTour Luxe that was brand new when I bought it 8 months ago...the guy rode it for about 250 when he bought it in 85 new, hurt his back at home about 3 weeks after the purchase and was unable to ride it, then about a week before he sold it to me he had it tuned up and new tires and tubes put on and tried to ride it again and his back started hurting again so he sold it. He kept it covered all those years with a thick blanket and it looks like it came off the showroom floor! Any way the look you have is the look I was looking to do with the Schwinn, and now after seeing what it looks like you help me resolve my mind.

 

[cloudhead]

Thanks Froze. It took a while, and it wasn't cheap so you need to be careful... Due to the legacy of this frame, I went all-out on componentry, but there are many price ranges available. Also be aware that installation of a lot of these randonneur-style components is not a simple task. If you haven't done it in the past, it's best to have someone experienced do the installation, as I did. I have seen many expensive bikes with racks mounted crooked or incorrectly (for example, there is a bridge under the rear rack that travels under the fender to the chainstay for strength).

I'll be giving a nice breakdown of everything I did to this bike eventually, once the frame returns from the painters. In the meantime, Rivendell Bikes (rivbike.com) & Velo Orange (velo-orange.com) are both great places to learn about this style. Peter White Cycles is also fantastic (peterwhitecycles.com) with more advanced reading. I'd start with Rivendell since there are many great philosophy articles to read, and then move onto velo-orange, which has more to sell but less to read. Peter White is you really know what youre looking for. You need to know measurements of your bike, and consult them before purchasing. I write that from experience. Returning vintage and NOS parts is near impossible, and I now have a collection of useless historical components I accidentally purchased over the year.

Also, a lot of saved searches on ebay for the more vintage components, such as the Silca pump & the Campy crank helped greatly. Good luck!

 

[Froze]

Thanks for the heads up Cloud Head...no pun intended...well maybe! Anyway I will follow your advice when I get ready to go ahead with the project of turning it into a full fledged retro looking touring bike that will actually see tours.

I've already taken it on some tours but I used cheap plastic fenders and used the pannier setup I had on another touring bike which is more modern in appearance.

I'm also using the factory original seat and cloth bar tape and hadn't decided what color of leather seat and bar tape to get, but you kinda of settled that question.

As far as fenders go I pretty much decided on the smooth look since I'm not sure if in the mid 80's they had hammered fenders, so I need too look into that. I know that VeloOrange has a good selection of fenders and I was eyeballing the VO Stainless smooth and the Zeppelin fenders, I thought they both looked retro but can't decide though I think I'm leaning towards the Zeppelin.

 

[cloudhead]

They've had hammered fenders forever, matter of fact since the modern bicycle was invented! Look up images for Rene Herse & Alex Singer bicycles, and you'll see where the designs came from. It's a French style of touring bike, and they continued to be made today. The fenders I have are made by Honjo (available from Velo Orange, listed as "Hammered Fluted"), and are hand-made in Japan.

Don't think of them too much as retro--the reason they are made out of aluminum is because fenders are the most abused component on a bicycle, and break easily if they aren't strong. And since they are made from metal, might as well polish them! It's also a reason for the hammering--it hides the dents and dings and pits that get put into the fender over the years. A smooth fender will show all those imperfections like a broken mirror. However, I have seen the hammering pattern in the VO-branded fenders, and I would recommend against it. They don't have the sharp appearance that the Honjo's have. With the amount of time required to install these (yes, they take a while and you better measure 5 times before drilling or cutting!), go for the best ones you can get. They'll last a long long time.

Those Zepplin fenders look nice. Just enough texture to make them interesting.

Make sure your tire clears the fender--they have different widths, and also make sure it all clears your fork! Earlier forks have a thinner clearance than modern ones. I wish I had another 6mm or so clearance myself. I actually might have a new fork made for that reason, but not this year.

The main problem I've had with these fenders is that most people only notice the fenders once they are installed. I spent a year restoring this bike and went broke in the process, and I get a lot of comments for "nice fenders!"

 

[Froze]

I typed in the search engine, original Rene Herse fenders and the pics showed smooth not hammered; see: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Rene+Herse+original+fenders&view=detail&id=042C03E697D07136280C042C03E697D07136280C&first=0&FORM=IDFRIR
And: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/INTEGRALBIKE.jpg
The pics of hammered ones came up too shiny to be original as well as some smooth ones that looked brand new. The same thing happened when I asked for pics of original Alex Singer bicycle fenders. And if I type in original french style antique bicycle fenders I get these: http://boxerbicycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/BQreviewimageFull.jpg Actually when I ran the last search most of the fenders that came up as smooth fenders painted to match the bike not shiny; see: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=original+french+style+bicycle+antique+fenders&view=detail&id=1B98F3DD24236BB3FC3845E52FB4DF2C76F259D6&first=0&FORM=IDFRIR And: http://oldroads.com/oldroads_files/337_1.jpg I don't like the painted look though. But I did find the search interesting, if you find some original older style hammered fender pics please post them I would like to see them. But I'm 58 years old and I do not recall ever seeing a hammered fender on a bike, the only hammered fenders I've seen has been new ones made by Honjo and VO; but I did see plenty of shiny or painted smooth fenders and fluted shiny or painted fenders.

The Zepplin fluted fenders I remember that style from the late 70's and early 80's on certain bikes and seems to be more in tune with the year of the bike, so at this point that seems to be the direction I'm leaning more towards.

 

[cloudhead]

I'm only 40 but started loaded touring at age 15, so I guess that's a jumpstart. I never saw bikes as classic as these either, but I think the "race bike syndrome" had already begun in the USA before I really got into touring, which was around 1985. As a matter of fact, my teenage friends clowned me because I chose the above Trek 720 over a racing bike. The funny thing is, I'm still riding mine, they aren't riding theirs!

I'm actually such a fan of the classic touring bicycle that I own a coffee table book titled "The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles". http://www.bikequarterly.com/goldenage.html

I'm looking through it, and basically the fenders came in the styles that are still available today, as well as some interesting styles that were definitely custom. The first hammered fender shown in the book is on a "Shulz" bicycle in 1935. The first modern diamond-framed bicycle in this book with hammered fenders is a 1946 Alex Singer and then a 1946 Rene Herse tandem, and a Rene Herse Camping bicycle from 1949. They probably showed up earlier, but this is the earliest photographic evidence I could find.

My favorite from the era is a bicycle by A. Faure, who was a watchmaker, and the bike was built sometime between 1948 and 1952 (depending on the publication):

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/faure.jpg Note how the rear rack is integrated as part of the fender! Detail photos of this bike are amazing, with components created by the watchmaker such as a speedometer, clock & bell.

Here's a late 40's C. Bailleul I spotted on Flickr, also with the integrated rack on the rear fender: http://www.flickr.com/photos/10703870@N06/4716338082/in/gallery-50271552@N06-72157625097501075/

The Zepplin-style fenders show up on a 1950 Rene Herse Randonneuse bicycle. I couldn't find an online picture of the Randonneuse, but in the book they are weathered in a bit, and they look great.


I found some other photos and descriptions online:

http://www.reneherse.com/AlexSinger1947.html (note the URL...Rene Herse has been 'reborn' in Colorado and continues to make amazing bicycles)

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/Schulzbrake.jpg - Detail of the 1935 Shulz.

Hope this helps,

-Court

 

[Froze]

Thanks for the pics, I couldn't find any on a web search. The 47 Alex Singer looked like original hand tooled hammered fender, but the others "appeared" to have been hammered by a machine which would make them more modern, like the original was replaced with those...but photos were difficult to tell if they were original or remanufactured then modified, if they were remanufactured they probably duplicating the original hammered fenders to look original with a machine.

But my bike isn't near as old as those, thus a hammered look would be out of date with the age of the bike.

 

[cloudhead]

Theyre not remanufactured. Actually these bikes are museum pieces, and the book I have lists any modifications done to the bike after they were originally built in fine detail, such as "replaced bar tape".

Here's some cool photos taken at the Honjo factory in Japan. I believe the top photo reveals the machine used to create the hammering pattern. I've seen poorly-hammered fenders, and it's really all about how expert the maker is. The funny thing is that a machine-made hammered fender actually looks worse, more imperfect than a hand-hammered one.
http://www.jitensha.com/eng/honjofact_e.html

Honjo is basically just a few Japanese men in their 60s doing what they do better than anyone else. Japan is quite the fan of the French-style bicycle, so Some of their companies are considered standard on touring bikes, such as Honjo, as well as Nitto,

 

[Froze]

That's amazing that after 50 years or more that the original fenders would still be on, I would have thought they would either be completely rusted and or pitted very badly; but those fenders look brand new or darn near brand new.

 

[Dan Dempsey]

I also wished to Upgrade my '85 Trek 720.... eventually I found some NOS Maxi-Car touriste hubs.... solid axle, 40 spokes, and 127mm. I am using Velocity Dyad black rims. My original rear derailleur turned into a pretzel long ago. I replaced it with a Shimano Deore LX years ago. I am using an IRD 7-speed freewheel (13-32).

2012-1985 = 27 years come this summer. The original wheels are now in the garage gathering dust.