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Week 64

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
26 January 2004
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26 January 2004
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Miss Violette
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  1. Great great week, Lee! WOOOOHOO!

    --

    ~Kristin O~
    272/242.2/172

    "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing


    it

    Quoted message said:

    on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am impressed with myself. I have lost
    more but for some reason this one is the one I


    am

    Quoted message said:

    most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled at work so I guess losing
    made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee

  2. ooh - that's great! bet you're glad you went now ๐Ÿ™‚

    --
    krys

    UK 157/135.2/126 Started March 1st 2001 GOAL August 16th 2001 struggling now......but
    making progress.

    "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing


    it

    Quoted message said:

    on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am impressed with myself. I have lost
    more but for some reason this one is the one I


    am

    Quoted message said:

    most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled at work so I guess losing
    made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee

  3. Thanks, I hope yours is going well, and a BIG thank you for doing the
    welcome notice, Lee
    Kristin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Great great week, Lee! WOOOOHOO!

    --

    ~Kristin O~
    272/242.2/172

    "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing


    it

    Quoted message said:

    on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am


    impressed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I


    am

    Quoted message said:

    most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled


    at

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to


    everyone

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this week. Lee


  4. Oh certainly, I'm glad I could've been of service for awhile anyway. ๐Ÿ™‚ And the weekend is going
    alright so far. Trying to plan the meals for the week a little better. Probably will head off to Wal-
    mart for groceries later in the day!

    --

    ~Kristin O~
    272/242.2/172

    "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I hope yours is going well, and a BIG thank you for doing the welcome notice, Lee

  5. I am probably 50 to 60 pounds from my goal and I have no idea what that goal is. I think you'll know
    when you "get there". No weight chart can fit

    be way to low for some people. It does not take into consideration male vs female for starters. It
    also does nto take into consideration age. An 80 year old person should not weigh the same as a 30
    year old. It is not safe. This may be a conversation that you want to have with your doctor so that
    you can find the right/safe weight to be at.

    "Prairie Roots" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for saying you don't know. I too am realizing that setting my goal weight might be trickier
    than I originally anticipated. For my height, WW recommends a weight range between 116 and 145.
    It's been at least 30 years since I last weighed in the 140s, so it hardly seemed possible last
    February when I started that I could ever weigh that again. About 7 years ago, I got a doctor's
    note setting my goal weight in the 170s. But I know that's not where I should be. Heck, I'm lower
    than that now and don't feel ready to stop.

    I've used the weight calculator at halls.mdbody.htm, which suggests 140
    as my ideal weight. But other weight calculators I've used suggest 120, the weight my childhood
    doctor said was my ideal weight.

    In other words, I don't have any idea either how much more I have to go. Since I don't attend WW
    meetings, I don't need the free meeting incentive for setting my goal at the high end. But without
    anything else to go on, that's where I've set my goal weight, in which case, I've got "only" 22
    lbs to goal. At the rate I'm losing, I've still got a few months to decide. Like you I'm trying
    not to think to far ahead and instead, focus on my mini-goals.

    Thanks again for sharing your thinking. I know we're not alone in wondering how to know when to
    stop. I'm pinching myself that I'm even having this discussion!

    Prairie Roots

    Miss Violette said:

    I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    been close to a normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I


    will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be 45 this year so there is an added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least
    32 more pounds to go and as much as 65 if I went


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing


    another

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might


    want

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a cushion under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if
    some at goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking
    you are not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.

    Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.

    If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.

    Prairie Roots

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be


    doing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:

    >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am


    impressed

    Quoted message said:

    >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    am

    Quoted message said:

    >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got


    chilled

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at

    Quoted message said:

    >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to


    everyone

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >this week. Lee
    >

  6. just finished our list and we are going there also, Lee
    Kristin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Oh certainly, I'm glad I could've been of service for awhile anyway. ๐Ÿ™‚ And the weekend is going
    alright so far. Trying to plan the meals for the week a little better. Probably will head off to
    Wal-mart for groceries later in the day!

    --

    ~Kristin O~
    272/242.2/172

    "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks, I hope yours is going well, and a BIG thank you for doing the welcome notice, Lee

  7. Back to the awareness issue Fred and I seem to constantly speak of. Mindless munching seems to be
    one of the common themes amongst most of us. Yes, it does take vigilance to keep it under control.
    Most of the time I do well, some times I cave - guess that makes me human. Always it is in my mind
    though, and so far I have been able to get things right back under control. It still is work though,
    I'm never going to pretend it isn't.

    I journaled faithfully for about 6 months after reaching my most current weight, slid off somewhere
    between Christmas and Thanksgiving. I did want to slide a bit though, to see if I could do it. And I
    did. I still used common sense eating, splurged a bit here, cut back a bit there - in the end it
    balanced out. At the moment I am back to journaling, because I WANT to make sure that this holiday
    splurge does not become permanent. Weight is down today, TOM is here - journaling obviously helps to
    keep me totally under control. Now to work on that water issue ... again.

    Joyce

    Prairie Roots said:

    Knowing my previous behavior post-weight loss, I will need to be as vigilant on maintenance as I am
    now. Too many times I've had the "diet" mentality: once I've stopped dieting, I've returned to my
    former food habits and regained all my weight plus more. My food problems stem from all the
    mindless eating. Once I reach goal weight, it'll be all too tempting to stop journaling, and that's
    when I'll be in real trouble. I tell myself that my goal weight is really secondary to developing
    an indelible and irreversible habit of journaling my food. Awareness of what and how much I eat
    will be the secret to making my weight loss permanent, regardless of my goal weight.

    Prairie Roots

    Joyce said:

    Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took a
    wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww suggested
    a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155. I set 150 as
    my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be happy there, so
    made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you will know when you get
    reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my clothes fit, how I looked and how
    I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred and Lesanne!) so have gone a bit lower
    than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't know if any of it is *easy* to keep off. It
    still is a lot of work to keep the eating and munching under control, and I know I have to do that
    in order to maintain.

    Joyce

    Miss Violette said:

    I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a normal
    weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an added
    allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as 65
    if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing another ten
    percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion under the WW
    weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at goal would tell us
    the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all
    Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    > but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >
    > Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >
    > If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    > beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >
    > Prairie Roots
    >
    > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    > >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    it
    > >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    impressed
    > >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    am
    > >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    at
    > >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    > >
    >


  8. It's been a couple of long days, I've read this thread but haven't totally focused on it - so am not
    quite sure where things are standing now. I would love to have a medical explanation for this logic,
    might just ask my doctor if I ever get back in. <G>

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    Glad you mentioned the AGE factor which WW permits or suggests. A friend asks why should "older"
    people get off being less fit or fatter? If in fact, a higher weight means that when older? But it
    is an interesting question and if we ever have a meeting again, I may try asking. Heck, I will
    email my secretary right now.... (G) It would seem that a "sensible" weight would be sensible at
    any age???

    Joyce said:

    Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took a
    wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww suggested
    a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155. I set 150 as
    my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be happy there, so
    made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you will know when you get
    reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my clothes fit, how I looked and how
    I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred and Lesanne!) so have gone a bit lower
    than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't know if any of it is *easy* to keep off. It
    still is a lot of work to keep the eating and munching under control, and I know I have to do that
    in order to maintain.

    Joyce

    Miss Violette said:

    I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a normal
    weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an added
    allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as 65
    if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing another ten
    percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion under the WW
    weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at goal would tell us
    the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all
    Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    > but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >
    > Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >
    > If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    > beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >
    > Prairie Roots
    >
    > On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    > >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    it
    > >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    impressed
    > >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    am
    > >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    at
    > >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    > >
    >


  9. And that is the tough one, how do we know or accept what is realistic for us vs. plain and simple
    comfort. I do like my snacks, and right now am able to fit them in very nicely. Yes, I could
    probably drop that next 5 pounds (to hit 125) if I cut my dinner portions, cut out lunches out with
    mom, some special treats that don't happen really very often .. as well as stepped up the exercise
    regimen. But do I want to, or do I really need to? I am controlling things pretty dang well where I
    am, up a few pounds, down a few pounds, always within the same 2-4 pound range. Then again, at what
    point do we reach if increasing the exercise, that the number on the scale is still going to stay
    the same due to muscle increase. So maybe I have to stop focusing on that danged number and accept
    the fact that 130 isn't too damn bad for a 46 year old woman who weighed 228 pounds two years ago.

    Acceptance is hard though, probably something else that I never have addressed well (with myself). I
    don't think I have ever accepted myself as a worthwhile being. I always expect too much of myself,
    never quite felt I fit into the mold that I cast. It's that danged self-confidence (or lack of)
    thing. Today is not one of my best days. ๐Ÿ™

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    That is another good summation. How much work, discipline or discomfort to hold a certain weight -
    unrealistic? Possibly. Do I want to really give up some fun snacks to get to 150-155. Can I do a
    better job of getting DAILY exercise as opposed to the weekend warrior stuff. Certainly, to stay at
    155 means less points/calories which means giving up something or getting that more exercise. Is
    that reasonable. You know - maybe it is NOT reasonable. 157-160 allows me snacking with what I will
    call reasonable meals. Maybe I could cut down the portions at dinner and cut a bit at breakfast and
    not notice those slight point subtractions to keep the snacks (this thought just occurred to me). I
    think lunch is about as low as I care to push it. Carefully measuring cereal/milk might help and
    shrinking to 3/4 cup or whatever could be possible. Similarly, only eating half a sweet potato or
    1/2 or 3/4 cut kasha might also work and shrinking the fish a bit......

    Of course, now that I think about it, WW does purposely provide a RANGE. In other words, certain
    weights may not be reasonable for all body types. More muscle mass, larger bone size or
    density..... So where I fall in that range might be just where I am "intended" to be??

    I will think about the breakfast/dinner portions but I do know that right now, it is not impossible
    just the way it is going. Hard somedays - snacks, darn them (g)

    Fred

    Joyce said:

    Very interesting thoughts, which I've also been having. Hanging onto the 130-135 zone has not been
    very difficult for me ... but sticking in the UNDER 130 has been very tough. Is it because of what
    I am doing, or not doing ... or is it this damn female hormone thing ... or is it that it really
    doesn't matter much to me? It is easier to stop now, don't push harder, don't have to think much
    about what I am eating as much of it has become routine. I found I have survived very well with
    not journaling for 3 weeks (although I did journal this week, trying to get back on track after
    the holidays). If I REALLY want to stick in that UNDER 130 zone, then I have to put more work into
    it. Maybe my head is telling me more than what I am hearing?

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase in
    weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down
    below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range so that a
    slight gain will not put one too close to goal or rather going over goal.

    As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in a
    mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable stomach/waist
    profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this UNDER 160 is not
    that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting the relief of being
    THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or trying to push it even
    lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose focus or interest or who the
    hell knows what .....?

    Muse on, you'll get there, too

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an added
    >allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as
    >65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing another ten
    >percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion under the WW
    >weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at goal would tell
    >us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all
    >Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >"]news:[email hidden]...
    >> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    >> but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>
    >> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>
    >> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>
    >> Prairie Roots
    >>
    >> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >it
    >> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >impressed
    >> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >am
    >> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >at
    >> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    >> >
    >>


  10. You? Cranky? Say it ain't so!

    Prairie Roots

    Miss Violette said:

    cranky is good , just ask ME, Lee Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My daughters keep their weight in the 125-130 range, and they're both slightly shorter than I
    am. So I think 130 wouldn't be unreasonable for me. But I don't really know because I've never
    weighed 130 (except as I passed it on my way to my high school weight of 140). The idea of
    weighing less at 50 than I did in high school strikes me as absurd. Yet I'm feeling oddly
    challenged to try, and oddly not panicked about the possibility. I think more is changing than
    my weight. My relationship with my body is as well. Can't say what that's about. Maybe it's just
    that I'm finally getting old enough I don't feel the need to throw my weight around, so to
    speak. I'll just be a cranky (and thin) old woman. <G>

    Prairie Roots

    Fred said:

    For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase in
    weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down
    below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range so that
    a slight gain will not put one too close to goal or rather going over goal.

    As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in a
    mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable
    stomach/waist profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this
    UNDER 160 is not that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting
    the relief of being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or
    trying to push it even lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose
    focus or interest or who the hell knows what .....?

    Muse on, you'll get there, too

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >been close to a normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I


    will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >be 45 this year so there is an added allowance for that. From what I


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as 65 if I went


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing


    another

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might


    want

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >a cushion under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep


    off.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >It would be nice if some at goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough"
    >off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >"]news:[email hidden]...
    >> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    >> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>
    >> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>
    >> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>
    >> Prairie Roots
    >>
    >> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be


    doing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >it
    >> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >impressed
    >> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the


    one I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >am
    >> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got


    chilled

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >at
    >> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to


    everyone

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >this week. Lee

  11. I figure WW is going to get $14.95 a month from me for a very long time. When I quit paying is when
    I quit journaling is when I start (re) gaining.

    Prairie Roots

    Joyce said:

    Back to the awareness issue Fred and I seem to constantly speak of. Mindless munching seems to be
    one of the common themes amongst most of us. Yes, it does take vigilance to keep it under control.
    Most of the time I do well, some times I cave - guess that makes me human. Always it is in my mind
    though, and so far I have been able to get things right back under control. It still is work
    though, I'm never going to pretend it isn't.

    I journaled faithfully for about 6 months after reaching my most current weight, slid off
    somewhere between Christmas and Thanksgiving. I did want to slide a bit though, to see if I could
    do it. And I did. I still used common sense eating, splurged a bit here, cut back a bit there - in
    the end it balanced out. At the moment I am back to journaling, because I WANT to make sure that
    this holiday splurge does not become permanent. Weight is down today, TOM is here - journaling
    obviously helps to keep me totally under control. Now to work on that water issue ... again.

    Joyce

    Prairie Roots said:

    Knowing my previous behavior post-weight loss, I will need to be as vigilant on maintenance as I
    am now. Too many times I've had the "diet" mentality: once I've stopped dieting, I've returned to
    my former food habits and regained all my weight plus more. My food problems stem from all the
    mindless eating. Once I reach goal weight, it'll be all too tempting to stop journaling, and
    that's when I'll be in real trouble. I tell myself that my goal weight is really secondary to
    developing an indelible and irreversible habit of journaling my food. Awareness of what and how
    much I eat will be the secret to making my weight loss permanent, regardless of my goal weight.

    Prairie Roots

    Joyce said:

    Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took a
    wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww
    suggested a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155. I
    set 150 as my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be happy
    there, so made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you will know
    when you get reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my clothes fit, how I
    looked and how I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred and Lesanne!) so have
    gone a bit lower than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't know if any of it is
    *easy* to keep off. It still is a lot of work to keep the eating and munching under control, and
    I know I have to do that in order to maintain.

    Joyce

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >"]news:[email hidden]...
    >> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    >> but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>
    >> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>
    >> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>
    >> Prairie Roots
    >>
    >> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >it
    >> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >impressed
    >> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >am
    >> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >at
    >> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee

  12. When I did my Google search on weight and age, more results came up for women than for men. The
    whole menopause thing, don't you know. I kept digging until I found something that discussed weight
    gain in men, since you were the one asking. The most common search result related to weight gain in
    babies and young children. So it would seem that at both ends of life weight gain is associated with
    survival/longevity.

    Prairie Roots

    Fred said:

    Thanks but since I noticed it is almost 7 years old, where is the companion study that is mentioned
    for women.

    What is interesting is that I used to subscribe to Bicycling Magazine. In it, there would be the
    occasional lament by the former youthful jocks who were its editors and regular contributors saying
    that as much as they thought they were riding, they still did seem to be getting spare tires around
    the middle.

    I sent the article to the friend who was suspicious of the AGE factor. And SHE probably would want
    to see the women's study (g)

    Prairie Roots said:

    Here's a link to an article I found on weight issues for middle age men. lbl.govspare
    tire.html

    For both men and women, as hormones change with age, metabolism slows. We should exercise MORE to
    compensate for our slowing metabolism yet we typically become less active.

    Fred said:

    Glad you mentioned the AGE factor which WW permits or suggests. A friend asks why should "older"
    people get off being less fit or fatter? If in fact, a higher weight means that when older? But
    it is an interesting question and if we ever have a meeting again, I may try asking. Heck, I
    will email my secretary right now.... (G) It would seem that a "sensible" weight would be
    sensible at any age???

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:51:15 -0600, Joyce <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took
    >a wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww
    >suggested a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155. I
    >set 150 as my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be happy
    >there, so made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you will know
    >when you get reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my clothes fit, how
    >I looked and how I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred and Lesanne!) so
    >have gone a bit lower than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't know if any of it
    >is *easy* to keep off. It still is a lot of work to keep the eating and munching under control,
    >and I know I have to do that in order to maintain.
    >
    >Joyce
    >
    >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >>not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    >>> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>
    >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>>
    >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>>
    >>> Prairie Roots
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >>it
    >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>impressed
    >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >>am
    >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >>at
    >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>


  13. Hey, cheer up, tomorrow is around the corner. Probably the extreme cold and you mentioned tom......

    I think 228 --> 130 is absolutely incredible.

    Joyce said:

    And that is the tough one, how do we know or accept what is realistic for us vs. plain and simple
    comfort. I do like my snacks, and right now am able to fit them in very nicely. Yes, I could
    probably drop that next 5 pounds (to hit 125) if I cut my dinner portions, cut out lunches out with
    mom, some special treats that don't happen really very often .. as well as stepped up the exercise
    regimen. But do I want to, or do I really need to? I am controlling things pretty dang well where I
    am, up a few pounds, down a few pounds, always within the same 2-4 pound range. Then again, at what
    point do we reach if increasing the exercise, that the number on the scale is still going to stay
    the same due to muscle increase. So maybe I have to stop focusing on that danged number and accept
    the fact that 130 isn't too damn bad for a 46 year old woman who weighed 228 pounds two years ago.

    Acceptance is hard though, probably something else that I never have addressed well (with myself).
    I don't think I have ever accepted myself as a worthwhile being. I always expect too much of
    myself, never quite felt I fit into the mold that I cast. It's that danged self-confidence (or lack
    of) thing. Today is not one of my best days. ๐Ÿ™

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    That is another good summation. How much work, discipline or discomfort to hold a certain weight -
    unrealistic? Possibly. Do I want to really give up some fun snacks to get to 150-155. Can I do a
    better job of getting DAILY exercise as opposed to the weekend warrior stuff. Certainly, to stay
    at 155 means less points/calories which means giving up something or getting that more exercise.
    Is that reasonable. You know - maybe it is NOT reasonable. 157-160 allows me snacking with what I
    will call reasonable meals. Maybe I could cut down the portions at dinner and cut a bit at
    breakfast and not notice those slight point subtractions to keep the snacks (this thought just
    occurred to me). I think lunch is about as low as I care to push it. Carefully measuring
    cereal/milk might help and shrinking to 3/4 cup or whatever could be possible. Similarly, only
    eating half a sweet potato or 1/2 or 3/4 cut kasha might also work and shrinking the fish a
    bit......

    Of course, now that I think about it, WW does purposely provide a RANGE. In other words, certain
    weights may not be reasonable for all body types. More muscle mass, larger bone size or
    density..... So where I fall in that range might be just where I am "intended" to be??

    I will think about the breakfast/dinner portions but I do know that right now, it is not
    impossible just the way it is going. Hard somedays - snacks, darn them (g)

    Fred

    Joyce said:

    Very interesting thoughts, which I've also been having. Hanging onto the 130-135 zone has not
    been very difficult for me ... but sticking in the UNDER 130 has been very tough. Is it because
    of what I am doing, or not doing ... or is it this damn female hormone thing ... or is it that it
    really doesn't matter much to me? It is easier to stop now, don't push harder, don't have to
    think much about what I am eating as much of it has become routine. I found I have survived very
    well with not journaling for 3 weeks (although I did journal this week, trying to get back on
    track after the holidays). If I REALLY want to stick in that UNDER 130 zone, then I have to put
    more work into it. Maybe my head is telling me more than what I am hearing?

    Joyce

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:10:50 -0800, Fred <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase in
    >weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down
    >below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range so that a
    >slight gain will not put one too close to goal or rather going over goal.
    >
    >As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    >decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    >170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in a
    > mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable stomach/waist
    > profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this UNDER 160 is not
    > that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting the relief of
    > being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or trying to push it
    > even lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose focus or interest or
    > who the hell knows what .....?
    >
    >Muse on, you'll get there, too
    >
    >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >>not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your WI,
    >>> but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>
    >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>>
    >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>>
    >>> Prairie Roots
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >>it
    >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>impressed
    >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >>am
    >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >>at
    >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    >>> >
    >>>

  14. You've hit on a few issues for which there aren't easy or obvious answers. To the quandary of
    knowing or accepting what's realistic v. plain and simple comfort, I'd also add knowing or accepting
    what's healthy. As someone who doesn't have a personal sense of what's realistic OR healthy, I've
    always opted for plain and simple comfort. Part of the journey for me is putting realistic and
    healthy ahead of the comfort factor. Or searching for a new definition of comfort.

    I'm sure our stories are different, but I do understand what you're saying about self-acceptance. As
    you say, some days are worse than others. When I'm having a particularly bad day, I try to remember
    one of my mother's stand bys: This, too, shall pass. I hope tomorrow is better than today.

    Prairie Roots

    Joyce said:

    And that is the tough one, how do we know or accept what is realistic for us vs. plain and simple
    comfort. I do like my snacks, and right now am able to fit them in very nicely. Yes, I could
    probably drop that next 5 pounds (to hit 125) if I cut my dinner portions, cut out lunches out
    with mom, some special treats that don't happen really very often .. as well as stepped up the
    exercise regimen. But do I want to, or do I really need to? I am controlling things pretty dang
    well where I am, up a few pounds, down a few pounds, always within the same 2-4 pound range. Then
    again, at what point do we reach if increasing the exercise, that the number on the scale is still
    going to stay the same due to muscle increase. So maybe I have to stop focusing on that danged
    number and accept the fact that 130 isn't too damn bad for a 46 year old woman who weighed 228
    pounds two years ago.

    Acceptance is hard though, probably something else that I never have addressed well (with myself).
    I don't think I have ever accepted myself as a worthwhile being. I always expect too much of
    myself, never quite felt I fit into the mold that I cast. It's that danged self-confidence (or
    lack of) thing. Today is not one of my best days. ๐Ÿ™

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    That is another good summation. How much work, discipline or discomfort to hold a certain weight
    - unrealistic? Possibly. Do I want to really give up some fun snacks to get to 150-155. Can I do
    a better job of getting DAILY exercise as opposed to the weekend warrior stuff. Certainly, to
    stay at 155 means less points/calories which means giving up something or getting that more
    exercise. Is that reasonable. You know - maybe it is NOT reasonable. 157-160 allows me snacking
    with what I will call reasonable meals. Maybe I could cut down the portions at dinner and cut a
    bit at breakfast and not notice those slight point subtractions to keep the snacks (this thought
    just occurred to me). I think lunch is about as low as I care to push it. Carefully measuring
    cereal/milk might help and shrinking to 3/4 cup or whatever could be possible. Similarly, only
    eating half a sweet potato or 1/2 or 3/4 cut kasha might also work and shrinking the fish a
    bit......

    Of course, now that I think about it, WW does purposely provide a RANGE. In other words, certain
    weights may not be reasonable for all body types. More muscle mass, larger bone size or
    density..... So where I fall in that range might be just where I am "intended" to be??

    I will think about the breakfast/dinner portions but I do know that right now, it is not
    impossible just the way it is going. Hard somedays - snacks, darn them (g)

    Fred

    Joyce said:

    Very interesting thoughts, which I've also been having. Hanging onto the 130-135 zone has not
    been very difficult for me ... but sticking in the UNDER 130 has been very tough. Is it because
    of what I am doing, or not doing ... or is it this damn female hormone thing ... or is it that
    it really doesn't matter much to me? It is easier to stop now, don't push harder, don't have to
    think much about what I am eating as much of it has become routine. I found I have survived very
    well with not journaling for 3 weeks (although I did journal this week, trying to get back on
    track after the holidays). If I REALLY want to stick in that UNDER 130 zone, then I have to put
    more work into it. Maybe my head is telling me more than what I am hearing?

    Joyce

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:10:50 -0800, Fred <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase in
    >weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down
    >below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range so that
    >a slight gain will not put one too close to goal or rather going over goal.
    >
    >As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    >decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    >170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in a
    > mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable
    > stomach/waist profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this
    > UNDER 160 is not that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting
    > the relief of being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or
    > trying to push it even lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose
    > focus or interest or who the hell knows what .....?
    >
    >Muse on, you'll get there, too
    >
    >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >>not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    >>> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>
    >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>>
    >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>>
    >>> Prairie Roots
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >>it
    >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>impressed
    >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >>am
    >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >>at
    >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee

  15. because my mom had such a hard time after her hysterectomy at the age of 40
    I worked very hard to get DH used to the idea of menopause. I started
    talking about it when I hit thirty, symptoms, possible surgery blabla, and
    finally one day he says to me, so what this means is we don't have to use
    birth control and you will be a [censored] year-round instead of three weeks out
    of four? I said right!!! bucko you got it!!! you got a problem with
    that!!!, he says, well the birth control part is good anyway,,, That was 15
    years ago, Lee, sooo blessed DH accepts her "as is"
    Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    You? Cranky? Say it ain't so!

    Prairie Roots

    Miss Violette said:

    cranky is good , just ask ME, Lee Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My daughters keep their weight in the 125-130 range, and they're both slightly shorter than I
    am. So I think 130 wouldn't be unreasonable for me. But I don't really know because I've never
    weighed 130 (except as I passed it on my way to my high school weight of 140). The idea of
    weighing less at 50 than I did in high school strikes me as absurd. Yet I'm feeling oddly
    challenged to try, and oddly not panicked about the possibility. I think more is changing than
    my weight. My relationship with my body is as well. Can't say what that's about. Maybe it's
    just that I'm finally getting old enough I don't feel the need to throw my weight around, so
    to speak. I'll just be a cranky (and thin) old woman. <G>

    Prairie Roots

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:10:50 -0800, Fred <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase
    >in weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it
    >down below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range
    >so that a slight gain will not put one too close to goal


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >rather going over goal.
    >
    >As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    >decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    >170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in
    > a mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable
    > stomach/waist profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this
    > UNDER 160


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >not that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting the relief of
    >being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or trying to push it
    >even lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose focus or interest or who
    >the hell knows what .....?
    >
    >Muse on, you'll get there, too
    >
    >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have

    Quoted message said:

    >>been close to a normal weight that I just don't know. To add to


    that I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will

    Quoted message said:

    >>be 45 this year so there is an added allowance for that. From what


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can

    Quoted message said:

    >>figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as 65 if I


    went

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    >>the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing


    another

    Quoted message said:

    >>ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I


    might

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    want

    Quoted message said:

    >>a cushion under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep


    off.

    Quoted message said:

    >>It would be nice if some at goal would tell us the logic they used


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all Prairie Roots
    >><[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> work to get to your WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>
    >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you


    just

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> keep going and going.
    >>>
    >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just


    being

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> nosy.
    >>>
    >>> Prairie Roots
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will


    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    doing

    Quoted message said:

    >>it
    >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>impressed
    >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    one I

    Quoted message said:

    >>am
    >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got


    chilled

    Quoted message said:

    >>at
    >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to


    everyone

    Quoted message said:

    >>> >this week. Lee

  16. I still continue to pay for the online program, yet I haven't been journaling this week. I pop in
    and record my weight - sometimes check the point value on some food or quantity ... but have slacked
    off on the journaling. I know I need to get back to this though. I have noticed my weeks seem to go
    much smoother and I feel more confident about my choices when I do. Then again, I have been floating
    back and forth within a pound or two - regardless of whether I journal or not. So maybe I'm doing
    better than I'm giving myself credit for???

    Ahhhhh, wishy washy me. I think I will get back to journaling next week ... regardless. <G>

    Joyce

    Prairie Roots said:

    I figure WW is going to get $14.95 a month from me for a very long time. When I quit paying is when
    I quit journaling is when I start (re) gaining.

    Prairie Roots

    Joyce said:

    Back to the awareness issue Fred and I seem to constantly speak of. Mindless munching seems to be
    one of the common themes amongst most of us. Yes, it does take vigilance to keep it under
    control. Most of the time I do well, some times I cave - guess that makes me human. Always it is
    in my mind though, and so far I have been able to get things right back under control. It still
    is work though, I'm never going to pretend it isn't.

    I journaled faithfully for about 6 months after reaching my most current weight, slid off
    somewhere between Christmas and Thanksgiving. I did want to slide a bit though, to see if I
    could do it. And I did. I still used common sense eating, splurged a bit here, cut back a bit
    there - in the end it balanced out. At the moment I am back to journaling, because I WANT to
    make sure that this holiday splurge does not become permanent. Weight is down today, TOM is here
    - journaling obviously helps to keep me totally under control. Now to work on that water issue
    ... again.

    Joyce

    Prairie Roots said:

    Knowing my previous behavior post-weight loss, I will need to be as vigilant on maintenance as I
    am now. Too many times I've had the "diet" mentality: once I've stopped dieting, I've returned
    to my former food habits and regained all my weight plus more. My food problems stem from all
    the mindless eating. Once I reach goal weight, it'll be all too tempting to stop journaling, and
    that's when I'll be in real trouble. I tell myself that my goal weight is really secondary to
    developing an indelible and irreversible habit of journaling my food. Awareness of what and how
    much I eat will be the secret to making my weight loss permanent, regardless of my goal weight.

    Prairie Roots

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:51:15 -0600, Joyce <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took
    >a wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww
    >suggested a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155. I
    >set 150 as my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be happy
    >there, so made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you will know
    >when you get reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my clothes fit, how
    >I looked and how I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred and Lesanne!) so
    >have gone a bit lower than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't know if any of it
    >is *easy* to keep off. It still is a lot of work to keep the eating and munching under control,
    >and I know I have to do that in order to maintain.
    >
    >Joyce
    >
    >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >>not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    >>> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>
    >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>>
    >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>>
    >>> Prairie Roots
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >>it
    >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>impressed
    >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >>am
    >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >>at
    >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee

  17. Thanks for the leg, well, finger work. I guess so - that weight gain at both ends of life is
    intended to provide additional survival stores.

    I guess one aspect of the info - upping running distance from 10 miles per week to 24, if I
    recall, really is telling on how much affect aging appears to have. And at 50+ it would have been
    even more - yikes!

    So once again, are we fighting some innate and very hard to reverse trend/genetics/age-factor????
    No, I'm not yet going to throw in the towel (or more food) due to this info. It is possible to
    control it but it does take work

    Again, thanks.

    Fred

    Prairie Roots said:

    When I did my Google search on weight and age, more results came up for women than for men. The
    whole menopause thing, don't you know. I kept digging until I found something that discussed weight
    gain in men, since you were the one asking. The most common search result related to weight gain in
    babies and young children. So it would seem that at both ends of life weight gain is associated
    with survival/longevity.

    Prairie Roots

    Fred said:

    Thanks but since I noticed it is almost 7 years old, where is the companion study that is
    mentioned for women.

    What is interesting is that I used to subscribe to Bicycling Magazine. In it, there would be the
    occasional lament by the former youthful jocks who were its editors and regular contributors
    saying that as much as they thought they were riding, they still did seem to be getting spare
    tires around the middle.

    I sent the article to the friend who was suspicious of the AGE factor. And SHE probably would want
    to see the women's study (g)

    Prairie Roots said:

    Here's a link to an article I found on weight issues for middle age men. lbl.govspare
    tire.html

    For both men and women, as hormones change with age, metabolism slows. We should exercise MORE to
    compensate for our slowing metabolism yet we typically become less active.

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:55:24 -0800, Fred wrote:
    > Glad you mentioned the AGE factor which WW permits or suggests. A friend asks why should
    > "older" people get off being less fit or fatter? If in fact, a higher weight means that when
    > older? But it is an interesting question and if we ever have a meeting again, I may try asking.
    > Heck, I will email my secretary right now.... (G) It would seem that a "sensible" weight would
    > be sensible at any age???
    >
    >
    >
    > On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 02:51:15 -0600, Joyce <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    > >Logic? I don't think there was ever any logic involved in my coming up with a goal - just took
    > >a wild stab in the dark, based on where I started from and the ww charts. For my height ww
    > >suggested a range of 124-155, my age added to the equation and that range lowered to 148-155.
    > >I set 150 as my original goal, but as I approached the 150 mark I knew I wasn't going to be
    > >happy there, so made a personal goal of 140. Then checked with my doctor also. I think you
    > >will know when you get reasonably close to where you want to be. I could tell by how my
    > >clothes fit, how I looked and how I felt. I also got into the cushion thinking (thanks Fred
    > >and Lesanne!) so have gone a bit lower than the 140. I will tell you though, I honestly don't
    > >know if any of it is *easy* to keep off. It still is a lot of work to keep the eating and
    > >munching under control, and I know I have to do that in order to maintain.
    > >
    > >Joyce
    > >
    > >On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    > >>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    > >>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    > >>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    > >>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    > >>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    > >>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you
    > >>are not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > >>"]news:[email hidden]...
    > >>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    > >>> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    > >>>
    > >>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    > >>>
    > >>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    > >>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    > >>>
    > >>> Prairie Roots
    > >>>
    > >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    > >>it
    > >>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    > >>impressed
    > >>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    > >>am
    > >>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    > >>at
    > >>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    > >>> >
    > >>>
    > >>
    >


  18. Thanks Fred. I'm feeling better already, maybe just needed something to take my mind off things.
    Nothing major going on and definitely nothing I can put my finger on. Probably just tom plus
    visiting mom plus cold temp/cabin fever.

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    Hey, cheer up, tomorrow is around the corner. Probably the extreme cold and you mentioned tom......

    I think 228 --> 130 is absolutely incredible.

    Joyce said:

    And that is the tough one, how do we know or accept what is realistic for us vs. plain and simple
    comfort. I do like my snacks, and right now am able to fit them in very nicely. Yes, I could
    probably drop that next 5 pounds (to hit 125) if I cut my dinner portions, cut out lunches out
    with mom, some special treats that don't happen really very often .. as well as stepped up the
    exercise regimen. But do I want to, or do I really need to? I am controlling things pretty dang
    well where I am, up a few pounds, down a few pounds, always within the same 2-4 pound range. Then
    again, at what point do we reach if increasing the exercise, that the number on the scale is still
    going to stay the same due to muscle increase. So maybe I have to stop focusing on that danged
    number and accept the fact that 130 isn't too damn bad for a 46 year old woman who weighed 228
    pounds two years ago.

    Acceptance is hard though, probably something else that I never have addressed well (with myself).
    I don't think I have ever accepted myself as a worthwhile being. I always expect too much of
    myself, never quite felt I fit into the mold that I cast. It's that danged self-confidence (or
    lack of) thing. Today is not one of my best days. ๐Ÿ™

    Joyce

    Fred said:

    That is another good summation. How much work, discipline or discomfort to hold a certain weight
    - unrealistic? Possibly. Do I want to really give up some fun snacks to get to 150-155. Can I do
    a better job of getting DAILY exercise as opposed to the weekend warrior stuff. Certainly, to
    stay at 155 means less points/calories which means giving up something or getting that more
    exercise. Is that reasonable. You know - maybe it is NOT reasonable. 157-160 allows me snacking
    with what I will call reasonable meals. Maybe I could cut down the portions at dinner and cut a
    bit at breakfast and not notice those slight point subtractions to keep the snacks (this thought
    just occurred to me). I think lunch is about as low as I care to push it. Carefully measuring
    cereal/milk might help and shrinking to 3/4 cup or whatever could be possible. Similarly, only
    eating half a sweet potato or 1/2 or 3/4 cut kasha might also work and shrinking the fish a
    bit......

    Of course, now that I think about it, WW does purposely provide a RANGE. In other words, certain
    weights may not be reasonable for all body types. More muscle mass, larger bone size or
    density..... So where I fall in that range might be just where I am "intended" to be??

    I will think about the breakfast/dinner portions but I do know that right now, it is not
    impossible just the way it is going. Hard somedays - snacks, darn them (g)

    Fred

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:00:49 -0600, Joyce <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >Very interesting thoughts, which I've also been having. Hanging onto the 130-135 zone has not
    >been very difficult for me ... but sticking in the UNDER 130 has been very tough. Is it because
    >of what I am doing, or not doing ... or is it this damn female hormone thing ... or is it that
    >it really doesn't matter much to me? It is easier to stop now, don't push harder, don't have to
    >think much about what I am eating as much of it has become routine. I found I have survived very
    >well with not journaling for 3 weeks (although I did journal this week, trying to get back on
    >track after the holidays). If I REALLY want to stick in that UNDER 130 zone, then I have to put
    >more work into it. Maybe my head is telling me more than what I am hearing?
    >
    >Joyce
    >
    >On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:10:50 -0800, Fred <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not pay for a slight increase in
    >>weight, there is the tendency to just pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down
    >>below that for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or free-range so that
    >>a slight gain will not put one too close to goal or rather going over goal.
    >>
    >>As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a while that it is hard to
    >>decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    >>170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that was OVER WW top. But in a
    >> mirror I can see where even another ten pounds might create a more reasonable
    >> stomach/waist profile but it also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this
    >> UNDER 160 is not that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or getting
    >> the relief of being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why make oneself miserable or
    >> trying to push it even lower. Did the artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose
    >> focus or interest or who the hell knows what .....?
    >>
    >>Muse on, you'll get there, too
    >>
    >>On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since I have been close to a
    >>>normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that I will be 45 this year so there is an
    >>>added allowance for that. From what I can figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as
    >>>much as 65 if I went to the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing
    >>>another ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I might want a cushion
    >>>under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep off. It would be nice if some at
    >>>goal would tell us the logic they used for arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are
    >>>not nosy at all Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had to work to get to your
    >>>> WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big way.
    >>>>
    >>>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you just keep going and going.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've been thinking ahead and
    >>>> beginning to plan for maintenance. Just being nosy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Prairie Roots
    >>>>
    >>>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be doing
    >>>it
    >>>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>>impressed
    >>>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the one I
    >>>am
    >>>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got chilled
    >>>at
    >>>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to everyone this week. Lee
    >>>> >
    >>>>
    >

  19. I've finally cleaned out all my closets of ill-fitting clothes. That was what prompted my shopping
    spree a couple of weeks ago. Literally, I had 2 pairs of pants left that weren't falling off of me.
    I was kind of sad to let some of the large things go because I too purchased nice clothes in the
    past, and I still liked them. But it's much easier now to go into my closet knowing that everything
    in there fits me, and I don't have to guess whether I'm grabbing something that fits. The funny
    thing though is that I'm still surprised that all the new smaller sizes still fit me. Some part of
    my brain is having a tough time accepting that my weight loss isn't a Freaky Friday kind of thing.
    I'm just waiting to fall on my head and I'll be returned to my "normal" body.
    --
    Prairie Roots

    Miss Violette said:

    part of the reason, as I said in some other thread, that I started going
    through closets was to find something, anything to wear. I found that yes,
    I have purchased nice clothes in the past. that they were right where I
    left them on the way up, and now a whole load of them are too big... When I
    got down to just what fit and what was too small I found that I was much
    more at ease about what was available to wear. it actually relieved the
    stress. It also seems to have helped with the feeling of the clothes I am
    wearing seeming too small when I hang them on a hanger. I think getting rid
    of the larger ones disallowed me to keep associating my body with those
    clothes. I guess that sounds weird but it is much easier now, Lee
    Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I like this definition of absurd: having no rational or orderly
    relationship to human life. My weighing 130 has no rational relationship
    to human life. So says my monkey mind that still can't believe I've come
    this far and doubts that any of my weight loss is real in the first
    place. The same monkey mind that despairs that I've nothing to wear
    because all my fat clothes are stuffed in bags and only my new size 10s
    are hanging in my closet. (Go ahead, say it. It's my monkey mind that
    has no rational or orderly relationship to human life. <G>๐Ÿ˜‰

    In truth, my weighing 130 probably isn't absurd. However, since I don't
    need to decide today, I'll continue to focus on getting to my next mini-
    goal: 165.

    --
    Prairie Roots

    Fred said:

    Oh, you'll make a dandy cranky THIN old woman! (G)

    I did like the fact that you and Lee both realized even discussing
    goal and maintenance was a NSV. Somewhere I discussed the age factor
    WW accommodates - why is it absurb? It might be but it it by some
    definition?

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:57:10 -0600, Prairie Roots <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    >My daughters keep their weight in the 125-130 range, and they're both
    >slightly shorter than I am. So I think 130 wouldn't be unreasonable
    >for me. But I don't really know because I've never weighed 130 (except
    >as I passed it on my way to my high school weight of 140). The idea of
    >weighing less at 50 than I did in high school strikes me as absurd.
    >Yet I'm feeling oddly challenged to try, and oddly not panicked about
    >the possibility. I think more is changing than my weight. My
    >relationship with my body is as well. Can't say what that's about.
    >Maybe it's just that I'm finally getting old enough I don't feel the
    >need to throw my weight around, so to speak. I'll just be a cranky
    >(and thin) old woman. <G>
    >
    >Prairie Roots
    >
    >On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:10:50 -0800, Fred <[email hidden]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>For you and Prairie: Clearly, going to meetings and wanting to not
    >>pay for a slight increase in weight, there is the tendency to just
    >>pick an official goal at top of range. Then take it down below that
    >>for one's clothing cushion (my terminology) or safety cushion or
    >>free-range so that a slight gain will not put one too close to goal or
    >>rather going over goal.
    >>
    >>As both of you mention, it seems so far away and unreachable for a
    >>while that it is hard to decide. (I, too, had a doctor's note for
    >>170) I know folks were urging me to stop about 20 pounds ago and that
    >>was OVER WW top. But in a mirror I can see where even another ten
    >>pounds might create a more reasonable stomach/waist profile but it
    >>also might be hard to hold onto - heck, holding onto this UNDER 160 is
    >>not that easy. Now is that because it is just easier stopping now or
    >>getting the relief of being THERE (that is at goal and safe) and why
    >>make oneself miserable or trying to push it even lower. Did the
    >>artificial goal of 160 just kind of make me lose focus or interest or
    >>who the hell knows what .....?
    >>
    >>Muse on, you'll get there, too
    >>
    >>On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:11:03 -0600, "Miss Violette"
    >><[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I am honestly not sure what I have to go. It has been so long since


    I have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>been close to a normal weight that I just don't know. To add to that


    I will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>be 45 this year so there is an added allowance for that. From what I


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>figure I have at least 32 more pounds to go and as much as 65 if I


    went to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>the five pounds below my minimum on the WW scale. I just keep doing


    another

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>ten percent at WW so I don't get overwhelmed. I also know that I


    might want

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>a cushion under the WW weight but am not sure what I can easily keep


    off.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>It would be nice if some at goal would tell us the logic they used


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>arriving at "enough" off, Lee, and thinking you are not nosy at all
    >>>Prairie Roots <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>"]news:[email hidden]...
    >>>> What a fabulous way to start off the new year. Sounds like you had


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> work to get to your WI, but the effort certainly paid off in a big
    >>>> way.
    >>>>
    >>>> Fabulous progress to date. You're like the Energizer bunny; you


    just

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> keep going and going.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you're willing to say, how close are you to goal? I know you've
    >>>> been thinking ahead and beginning to plan for maintenance. Just


    being

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> nosy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Prairie Roots
    >>>>
    >>>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:26:26 -0600, "Miss Violette"
    >>>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> >I weighed today still early but until everything settled I will be


    doing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>it
    >>>> >on Tuesday. I lost 2.8!!!! This makes a total of 83.7 and I am
    >>>impressed
    >>>> >with myself. I have lost more but for some reason this one is the


    one I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>am
    >>>> >most pleased with. It was so cold and I was sick because I got


    chilled

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>at
    >>>> >work so I guess losing made it really worth going. Good luck to


    everyone

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> >this week. Lee

  20. Point taken. Thanks for giving me some ammo to use against those infernal negative thoughts.

    Fred said:

    Well, the weight gain was probably irrational or absurd (altho, adsurb might do (G)) and so I
    would not worry about what the next value judgment will be at this point.

    Just get to the next minigoal

    Prairie Roots said:

    I like this definition of absurd: having no rational or orderly relationship to human life. My
    weighing 130 has no rational relationship to human life. So says my monkey mind that still can't
    believe I've come this far and doubts that any of my weight loss is real in the first place. The
    same monkey mind that despairs that I've nothing to wear because all my fat clothes are stuffed
    in bags and only my new size 10s are hanging in my closet. (Go ahead, say it. It's my monkey mind
    that has no rational or orderly relationship to human life. <G>๐Ÿ˜‰

    In truth, my weighing 130 probably isn't absurd. However, since I don't need to decide today,
    I'll continue to focus on getting to my next mini- goal: 165.

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