Triathlon · Public discussion

weak kick - fins or not?

Started by Brian And Denis · · Last activity · 4 posts · 930 views

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Published
3 April 2004
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Brian And Denis
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  1. Hi,

    My kick sucks. I swim okay, but any part of the workout that
    is only kicking, I might as well cut the distance in half so
    as to not run out of time to do the rest of the workout. Not
    to mention how exhausted I am after 100 -150 yards of
    kickboard work. It's got to affect the rest of my workout.

    I'm 6'2" and have 36 inch inseam, size 12 feet, and chicken
    legs. (Although they aren't as skinny as they used to be due
    to weight lifting and skate skiing, as far as I know.)

    My question is how to improve my kick? Should I use my fins
    during kicking drills? Or keep banging out the laps without
    them until my legs are burning and numb hoping that they
    will improve along the way?

    Thanks,

    Brian

  2. "Brian and Denise Pauley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    My kick sucks. I swim okay, but any part of the workout
    that is only kicking, I might as well cut the distance in
    half so as to not run out of time to do the rest of the
    workout. Not to mention how exhausted I am after 100 -150
    yards of kickboard work. It's got to affect the rest of my
    workout.


    ...

    Quoted message said:


    Thanks,

    Brian

    Hi Brian,

    You may want to ask "why do I need to kick?" I mean what
    does it buy you?

    The kick becomes more important as you do shorter distances.
    Since in a triathlon the shortest distance you'll do is
    probably a 500 or 800, the kick is not that important.
    Compound this with open water swims that normally allow a
    wet suit and the kick become even less important. As a
    triathlete - you need relatively fresh legs when you're done
    swimming - so the legs take a secondary priority while
    you're in the water.

    You may find that focusing on your body position/balance and
    glide/reach techniques to be more advantages. You certainly
    don't want to drag your legs, but you don't want to motor
    with them either.

    Having said that, there are some other advantages of
    swimming with fins. For instance they let you feel the
    water at high speed. Body/arm/hand sensory becomes much
    more responsive and the positioning becomes much easier to
    notice affects. It also keeps your legs engaged in the work
    out. But you really don't have to do a lot of this.
    Personally I'll do 300-500 worth every 6 weeks (sometime
    even less often).

    I guess it depends on where you are. If you're swimming a
    1000 with a 1:10 or better 100 split then maybe refining the
    kick will help you improve. But if you're swimming a 1:45
    100 split, then I think you may be better off working on
    your stroke and body positioning.

    -CF

  3. my kicking is not good as well. but you should do more
    stretching like a ballard dance first of all.

    This article helps.

    An Article on Kicking!

    The Flutter Kick

    by Marty Hull

    One of Swimming's Mysteries Legs are very powerful on land,
    able to move us around with quickness and grace. In the
    water, legs do not always work very well. This article
    explores how the flutter kick works, why some swimmers have
    very effective kicks and others do not, and how to make your
    kick better through specific stretching and strengthening
    exercises.

    The amount of leg power swimmers can transfer to the water
    depends primarily on the forward range of motion of the
    foot. The farther your foot bends forward the more leg power
    you will be able to transfer to the water and the farther
    you will travel with each stroke. This is why learning how
    to develop a good kick is so important.

    The flutter kicking movement involves alternately separating
    the legs and then drawing them back together. The moment the
    legs separate, the surface of the legs encounter drag from
    the water which slows the swimmer. When the legs are drawn
    back together, they produce a force which tends to push the
    swimmer forward. If the kick produces considerably more
    forward force than it causes drag, the kick will be
    propulsive.

    Individual differences in foot range of motion determine how
    propulsive a kick is. A (poor) kick that produces little or
    no propulsion is of little use. A moderately propulsive
    (fair) kick will work well when sprinting but not as well on
    longer swims. A very propulsive (great) kick is worth using
    a lot. This swimmer will appear to flow almost effortlessly
    through the water when swimming.

    Poor Kick: If your foot flexes to less than 90 degrees, it
    is necessary to bend at the knees to get the foot to an
    angle that will push you forward. Bending at the knees
    causes enough additional drag to cancel out the forward
    force produced by the kick. For the amount of effort kicking
    takes, this kick is not worth using.

    Fair Kick: If your foot flexes to 90 degrees or slightly
    more, you will have a moderately propulsive kick. The knee
    must bend a little to make the kick work but it provides
    enough propulsion to be worthwhile using. For this swimmer,
    it is often necessary to keep the calf muscle contracted so
    the foot flexes forward far enough to produce maximum
    propulsion. This may result in cramping in the calf, but it
    lets you go faster. It works best for sprints and is less
    effective for longer swims.

    Great Kick: If your foot flexes to significantly more than
    90 degrees, very little knee bend is needed to kick. As the
    foot kicks against the water, the pressure from the water
    against the top of the foot keeps the foot flexed forward.
    The calf muscles need not be used. The blood flow which
    would have gone to the calf muscles is then free to be used
    in the upper body. This kick causes very little drag and
    generates excellent propulsion.

    Foot range of motion can be increased through stretching.
    For each degree you gain past 90 degrees, the amount of
    forward force you produce with each kicking movement
    increases and the effort required to kick decreases. In
    essence, you get more propulsion for less work. The
    swimmer with great plantar flexion may not only go faster,
    he/she may not even be working quite as hard. Life is not
    always fair.

    Ankle Stretching Swimmers have been stretching ankles for a
    long time. I used to stretch mine by bending them under a
    couch. World record holder Jeff Rouse uses his body weight
    (photo #1), rolling back on his feet to stretch. Classical
    ballet dancers have been using simple boards with straps
    attached for decades to stretch feet. There are two areas
    where stretching is possible: the ankle joint and the joints
    down farther in the foot, the tarsal-metatarsal joints.
    These joints are the most difficult to stretch, a limit
    being reached by many after a fairly small improvement.
    Stretching the tarsal- meta- tarsal joints allows the bottom
    portion of the foot to move to a better position, further
    improving the kick.

    Stretching Exercises Ankle joint: Soak ankles and feet in
    hot water (108 to 118 degrees Fahrenheit) for several
    minutes. Adjust the strap on a board so that it fits snugly
    over instep. Sit on foot and slowly slide the board away
    from you by straightening the leg. This will begin to
    stretch the joint. The more force you use to straighten the
    leg, the more stretching force you will put on the joint.
    Begin gradually, using low force. Stretch each foot for 45
    seconds to one minute. Stretch every other day. Gradually,
    over a period of several weeks, increase the amount of time
    per foot, the force levels and the number of days per week.
    For the first couple of weeks, you will have some tenderness
    on the underside of the ankle joint. After this passes, you
    can significantly increase stretching force and duration.

    Tarsal-metatarsal stretch: Place foot in the strap attatched
    to a board so the strap runs over the lower portion of the
    foot, just above the toes. It is usually necessary to
    tighten the strap a little. Stretch this area the same way
    you stretched the ankle joint.

    Once you increase ankle range of motion, your kick will
    change. You will kick with a straighter leg and your foot
    will move up and down a shorter distance but will move
    faster. This new kicking movement greatly increases the use
    of hip flexor muscles. Specific stretching and strengthening
    exercises are needed to help the hip flexor muscles stand up
    at this increased demand.

    Hip flexor stretch: Place your left leg on a chair (photo
    #4) while supporting yourself with a hand on the chair back.
    To stretch, bend the right knee, allowing your body weight
    to press down on your right leg. As you press down, also
    lean your torso back. This places excellent stretching
    forces on the hip flexor muscles.

    Move into this stretch gradually so you do not injure or
    pull any portions of the muscles being stretched. Hold this
    position 60 to 90 seconds per leg. Do both legs. Do three to
    four times per week.

    Hip Flexor Strengthening In the deep end of the pool, kick
    (with fins) in a vertical position. Warm up with a couple of
    minutes of easy kicking. Then, kick hard for 30 seconds
    followed by a 20 second rest. Keep you legs straight while
    kicking. This isolates the hip flexor muscles. You will feel
    the muscles working in the front of your pelvis. If you
    allow the knees to bend, the hip flexors work less and the
    quadriceps muscles work more. Try kicking both ways and you
    will notice the difference. Begin with 1 x 30- or 2 x 30-
    second kicking periods with rests in between. Over a period
    of several weeks, work up to eight to 10 periods of 30-
    second versicle kicking. Do this three times per week. When
    will you improve? This often depends on the range of motion
    of your foot when you begin. Many swimmers notice some
    benefits within one to two weeks. If you stretch
    aggressively and regularly, you will improve for many weeks.
    The versicle kicking exercises will start to pay off in two
    to three weeks.

    Marty Hull is a top Masters swimmer and a consultant to the
    Stanford University Swim Team.

    "Brian and Denise Pauley" <[email hidden]>
    ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D
    :[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    My kick sucks. I swim okay, but any part of the workout
    that is only kicking, I might as well cut the distance in
    half so as to not run out of time to do the rest of the
    workout. Not to mention how exhausted I am


    after

    Quoted message said:

    100 -150 yards of kickboard work. It's got to affect the
    rest of my workout.

    I'm 6'2" and have 36 inch inseam, size 12 feet, and
    chicken legs.


    (Although

    Quoted message said:

    they aren't as skinny as they used to be due to weight
    lifting and skate skiing, as far as I know.)

    My question is how to improve my kick? Should I use my
    fins during


    kicking

    Quoted message said:

    drills? Or keep banging out the laps without them until my
    legs are


    burning

    Quoted message said:

    and numb hoping that they will improve along the way?

    Thanks,

    Brian

  4. On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:15:35 -0500, "ChronoFish" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Brian and Denise Pauley" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    My kick sucks. I swim okay, but any part of the workout
    that is only kicking, I might as well cut the distance in
    half so as to not run out of time to do the rest of the
    workout. Not to mention how exhausted I am after 100 -150
    yards of kickboard work. It's got to affect the rest of
    my workout.


    ...

    Quoted message said:


    Thanks,

    Brian

    Hi Brian,

    You may want to ask "why do I need to kick?" I mean what
    does it buy you?

    There is a definite advantage to doing some hard kicking
    (with or without fins) even for a triathlete. First off, it
    should help you improve the specific muscles used in
    swimming, thus end up with a better body position when you
    enter an actual race. Second, swimming with fins will
    actually increase the amount of energy you're using during a
    swim workout, thus better preparing you for the real thing,
    since you'll exit the water in a triathlon less spent than
    when you finish a swim workout. Finally, kicking uses some
    of the same muscles as running, thus you may be able to run
    well on a lower weekly mileage if you're spending a lot of
    time kicking. This is not to say kicking is a suitable
    substitute to running, but there is a definite overlap in
    the muscles used.

    The only downside I can see to using the fins too much is
    that it might let you get by with a sloppy body position or
    sloppy stroke, since the fins would be doing much to
    temporarily correct many errors you make in the upper body.

    How much kicking you should do depends greatly on how much
    time you've got to spend in the water, and whether or not
    the time would better be spent biking or running.

    Quoted message said:


    The kick becomes more important as you do shorter
    distances. Since in a triathlon the shortest distance
    you'll do is probably a 500 or 800, the kick is not that
    important. Compound this with open water swims that
    normally allow a wet suit and the kick become even less
    important. As a triathlete - you need relatively fresh legs
    when you're done swimming - so the legs take a secondary
    priority while you're in the water.

    True, but kick hard in training with no wetsuit, and the
    real event will seem pretty easy by comparison.

    Quoted message said:


    You may find that focusing on your body position/balance
    and glide/reach techniques to be more advantages. You
    certainly don't want to drag your legs, but you don't want
    to motor with them either.

    And that is part of the reason to do some kicking
    without fins.

    Quoted message said:


    Having said that, there are some other advantages of
    swimming with fins. For instance they let you feel the
    water at high speed. Body/arm/hand sensory becomes much
    more responsive and the positioning becomes much easier to
    notice affects. It also keeps your legs engaged in the work
    out. But you really don't have to do a lot of this.
    Personally I'll do 300-500 worth every 6 weeks (sometime
    even less often).

    I guess it depends on where you are. If you're swimming a
    1000 with a 1:10 or better 100 split then maybe refining
    the kick will help you improve. But if you're swimming a
    1:45 100 split, then I think you may be better off working
    on your stroke and body positioning.

    -CF

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