Vanilla Extract - Dangerous?

Rona Yuthasastrakosol said:

Well, using that reasoning, why the big fuss over using pottery with glazes that contain lead?
Would you risk using a tagine from Morocco (untested for lead) to cook a meal for your children,
even if you only use it occasionally?

Because different poisons act in different ways. Lead accumulates in the body, and in sufficient
concentrations, causes progressive damage. Coumarin is readily metabolized, and in concentrations
too small to cause internal bleeding, is essentially harmless. In fact, it is routinely used as an
anticoagulant drug.

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

Quoted message said:

(Pixmedia)

But you see, I bought this myself and knew where it came from - I'm not certain about using a
screwed up looking bottle that I didn't see where it came from.

You only know where you made the purchase, you've no idea whatsoever about the bottle's contents...
kinda like stupidmarket ground meat, mystery meat if you will. Considering it's used by the teaspoon
vanilla is relatively inexpensive, toss it.

---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Dear Tank,

I noticed your message pertaining to vanilla. my This is just thinking - I would not try this. I
feel it should say, 'vanilla extract.' If it doesn't, a bit risky. You wish further research on this
and if so, may I suggest to check with a pharmasist.

Much luck to you. sRp st.

jmcquown said:

Vanilla isn't that expensive; buy a bottle from Penzey's and toss away they mystery extract!

Don't waste it -- give it to a food pantry. Hope this helps. :-)

"Ranee Mueller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I have read/heard this many times, but one question always comes to my mind: How toxic is
coumarin? I mean, you use anywhere from 1/4-2 tsps of vanilla for an entire recipe, which is
generally spread out into at least 8-16 servings, is it really that dangerous?

It would have to have one hell of a blast of it to be toxic. Yes, it is used in rat poison, but in
much heavier doses per pound of body weight compared to a human. Many medications that we use daily
are toxic in high doses.

Coumerin (warfrin) is prescribed as a blood thinner. My wife took it every day for about a
year.While it is a poison in rodents, it was given to keep her alive.

Personally, I'd use the vanilla. Ed [email hidden] pages.cthome.netedhomeOpen ↗

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jmcquown said:

Vanilla isn't that expensive; buy a bottle from Penzey's and toss away

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mystery extract!

Don't waste it -- give it to a food pantry. Hope this helps. :-)

[censored].

(Nancree) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to use?

======================
If the label has "no coumarin" on it it is safe to use. And it's delicious. My friends and
neighbors and I have used it for years. nancree

What the heck is coumarin?

Davlo said:

My god, just throw it away! You're going to take a chance on some mystery bottle that's obviously
been re-used and for all you know could have contained mercury in it at some time. Why bother?
Chuck it, and move on.

But it could contain some real potent hallucinogenic drug that could change your whole perspective
on life, and possibly even cause you to have a spiritual awakening or even meet God. Don't waste the
chance of a lifetime. If you insist on tossing it, give it to a druggie.

Her boss wants to fire her, but dont want to have to pay unemployment compensation for her. This is
a quick and easy way to get rid of her....

Tank said:

Hi Group,

My wife received a small bottle of imported vanilla extract as a gift from her boss, who had taken
a Carribean cruise. I am wondering about the safety of using this.

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

The label is badly cut & crooked, with plain laser printed text. It says, in big letters: PURE
VANILLA. Under that, is says: Use for Cakes, Drinks, Pudding, Ice Cream, Etc.

Below that, it says: Made & Bottled in Grenada.

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate ring on
the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

No company name, or address of any kind on this bottle. I do not know from what kind of vendor the
purchaser obtained it. I can send a picture of the bottle to anyone who is interested in seeing it.

I am concerned about the possibility of Coumarin in the vanilla. Does anyone have any suggestions
as to how I might determine if this vanilla is safe to use?

Thanks very much!

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:30:48 -0500, "Tank" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My wife received a small bottle of imported vanilla extract as a gift from her boss, who had taken
a Carribean cruise. I am wondering about the safety of using this.

Quoted message said:

Below that, it says: Made & Bottled in Grenada.

Grenada is a spice island where nutmeg, allspice, cinammon, bay, cloves, vanilla, and tonka bean,
which contains coumarin, are all grown. In 1940, The US banned import of foods containing coumarin,
which also occurs naturally in lavender, sweet clover, and woodruff. Coumarin is used medically as a
blood-thinner. I don't have the background to wade through the literature and discover the toxic
dose in humans.

Two tonka beans were included in a souvenir spice basket someone brought me from Grenada (labeled
"packaged by Spice Islands Perfumes, Ltd.," which appears to be a recommended shop for visiting
cruise ships). The accompanying pamphlet suggests a flavor similar to almond or vanilla and grating
a little into cake or pudding, or steeping in rum or milk for a "delicious drink."

Seems to me if Grenadans advertise, use, and sell tonka beans, they're unlikely to be lethal in
culinary concentrations. The 'crime' of Mexican vanilla appears to be misrepresentation of a cheap
ingredient, not something like bottling methanol and calling it vodka.

If the bottle is labeled "Pure Vanilla", I expect it's vanilla.

Wayne Boatwright said:

Ranee Mueller <[email hidden]> wrote in news:raneemdonot-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article said:

The problem is it might be tonka bean extract instead of vanilla. Tonka beans smell more like
vanilla than vanilla does, but contain toxic amounts of coumarin.

I have read/heard this many times, but one question always comes to my mind: How toxic is
coumarin? I mean, you use anywhere from 1/4-2 tsps of vanilla for an entire recipe, which is
generally spread out into at least 8-16 servings, is it really that dangerous?

Regards, Ranee

A local Mexican store sells vanilla from Mexico, but the bottles explicitly state "contains no
coumarin". I have used it, but it really doesn't compare to the vanilla from Penzey's. I really
hate making a recipe only to find out that the vanilla I used produced a substandard flavor.

Wayne

Why dont you make your own? Take a vanilla bean, split it down the center, open it up and put it in
a cup of vodka. Shake it once a day and after a week you have amazing vanilla extract, better than
you buy in the stores

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"Jonathan Sachs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rona Yuthasastrakosol said:

Well, using that reasoning, why the big fuss over using pottery with

glazes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that contain lead? Would you risk using a tagine from Morocco (untested

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lead) to cook a meal for your children, even if you only use it occasionally?

Because different poisons act in different ways. Lead accumulates in the body, and in sufficient
concentrations, causes progressive damage. Coumarin is readily metabolized, and in concentrations
too small to cause internal bleeding, is essentially harmless. In fact, it is routinely used as an
anticoagulant drug.

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

Umm, nope. You're thinking of COUMADIN. That is the anti-coagulant. It is Wafarin-Sodium. I know, I
take 2mg every day!

--
Tank

Thin blooded in the Ohio cold!

Hark! I heard "Tank" <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

My wife received a small bottle of imported vanilla extract as a gift from her boss, who had taken
a Carribean cruise. I am wondering about the safety of using this.

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate ring
on the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

The bottle sounds interesting -- dump the contents down the drain, and save it as a
conversation piece...

--
j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~ ..fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

Ranee Mueller said:

In article said:

The problem is it might be tonka bean extract instead of vanilla. Tonka beans smell more like
vanilla than vanilla does, but contain toxic amounts of coumarin.

I have read/heard this many times, but one question always comes to my mind: How toxic is
coumarin? I mean, you use anywhere from 1/4-2 tsps of vanilla for an entire recipe, which is
generally spread out into at least 8-16 servings, is it really that dangerous?

I wasn't able to find any info on what the toxic dose of coumarin was for humans. As I posted, I
have a souvenir spice basket from an apparently respectable Grenada source which includes Tonka
Beans, recommeded as for their vanilla-/almond-like flavor.

Coumarin, in specific dosages, is prescribed as a blood-thinning agent. As 'Warfarin', it's used a
poison which apparently causes internal bleeding. Most citations had to do with cattle's over-
ingestion of sweet clover, which also contains coumarin. Almost anything you can think of is toxic
in sufficient dose, incl. water.

If 'fake vanilla' poisoning were common, we'd have heard about it. The sin seems to be substituting
a cheap ingredient for an expensive one.

I just opened my little pkg of Tonka beans and compared the scent to a vanilla bean. Tonka smelled
pleasantly like mild vanilla; vanilla was *much* stronger and more vivid.

Tank said:

Umm, nope. You're thinking of COUMADIN. That is the anti-coagulant. It is Wafarin-Sodium. I know, I
take 2mg every day!

Coumarin is the naturally occurring chemical from which Coumadin is synthesized. I am not trained in
pharmacology, but from the information I have been able to find, I gather that its effects are
substantially the same.

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Rona

Yuthasastrakosol said:

Well, using that reasoning, why the big fuss over using pottery with glazes that contain lead?
Would you risk using a tagine from Morocco (untested for lead) to cook a meal for your children,
even if you only use it occasionally?

Well, for one thing, lead builds up in the blood and AFAIK, coumarin doesn't. If it did, then drs
couldn't safely prescribe warfarin which is derived from coumarin. I asked, because it seems a
silly precaution when it is in tiny amounts diluted in food, when one can safely take a
particular dose of it which is refined.

Regards, Ranee

--
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"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in
shrines made by man." Acts 17:24

In article <[email hidden]>, Frogleg

Quoted message said:

If 'fake vanilla' poisoning were common, we'd have heard about it. The sin seems to be
substituting a cheap ingredient for an expensive one.

This is what I suspect as well. The only crime then is in
mislabelling, since they are not selling it at a high price.

Regards, Ranee

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Remove do not and spam to e-mail me.

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in
shrines made by man." Acts 17:24

In article <[email hidden]>, zxcvbob

Quoted message said:

Someone gave my brother a big liquor bottle full of Mexican vanilla once and he said it had a bit
of an industrial solvent smell to it that gave him a headache.

If we got any that smelled like that, then I would toss it. The one bottle we got was lovely
and fragrant.

Regards, Ranee

--
Remove do not and spam to e-mail me.

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in
shrines made by man." Acts 17:24

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Because different poisons act in different ways. Lead accumulates in the body, and in sufficient
concentrations, causes progressive damage. Coumarin is readily metabolized, and in concentrations
too small to cause internal bleeding, is essentially harmless. In fact, it is routinely used as an
anticoagulant drug.

This is why I was confused. I think we will continue to use Mexican
vanilla when we can get it. The bottle we got from my MIL was far more
fragrant and tasted better in foods than the stuff we get at the store.

Regards, Ranee (who will not worry about the 1/32 of a tsp she may ingest of this in a week)

--
Remove do not and spam to e-mail me.

"The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in
shrines made by man." Acts 17:24

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:30:40 GMT, [email hidden] (j.j.)

Quoted message said:

Hark! I heard "Tank" <[email hidden]> say:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is in a small brown bottle, which looks like it has been reused. There is adhesive from a
previous label under the label for the vanilla.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To cap is a sealed, twist off kind. It is made of metal, the kind where there is a separate ring
on the bottle, after you have opened it the first time.

The bottle sounds interesting -- dump the contents down the drain, and save it as a
conversation piece...

A recent post here (about sugar content in tomato sauce, I think) indicated that foods in Canada
don't bear the same ingredient and/or nutrition labels we have in the US. So I guess we should dump
all food items that haven't entered the USA with USDA approval labeling (sympathy to our northern
neighbors). My Grenada spice basket includes a number of items in small plastic bags and a sort of
hand-crafted label and info sheet. It never occurred to me to think these suspect because they were
without US gov't-approved labeling. Or were labeled without a 4-color press.