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Road Cycling
Published
19 June 2007
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22 June 2007
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Bill C
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  1. Bill C said:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun19news3
    Quoted::
    UCI demands ProTour riders' signatures on anti-doping agreement for
    Tour participation
    By Susan Westemeyer

    UCI President Pat McQuaid speaks
    Photo ©: AFP
    The UCI has introduced a new anti-doping charter, it announced today
    in Geneva. Under it, all 600 ProTour riders must sign a statement
    before the Tour de France in which they agree to pay a year's salary
    if they are found to have used illegal doping products, in addition to
    the usual suspension they would face.

    The announcement was made after the International Cycling Union (UCI)
    meeting, in Geneva, with the ProTour team managers and team doctors.
    UCI President Pat McQuaid said that any rider who refused to sign
    would not be allowed to ride in the three-week French race.

    T-Mobile's Mark Cavendish and Française Des Jeux's Sandy Casar were on
    hand at the meeting to be the first to sign their statements. "It's
    cool to be clean," said the British rider on t-mobile-team.com.
    <more there>

    What complete and utter rubbish. If they had any balls, or any sign of
    a union right now they'd be telling the UCI "You just cancelled the
    Tour.".
    The system is questionable at best, it's at least as invasive, and
    easily more predjudicial than what any other sport is subjected too.
    I would say that I can't believe that there are riders sitting there
    cheering this on, but given the percentage of the population that
    worked for, or provided reports to the Stasi then it makes sense.
    The obvious next step is to rehire/coerce most of those Stasi and
    others around Europe to take up monitoring and reporting on evry
    aspect of the riders lives. It would be totally justified, and I'm
    sure they could find rider's to support it in public. Even if they had
    to use more threats to do it.
    Bill C

    who is doing the testing?
    right. next tidbit, please.

    -bdbafh

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sandy said:

    "Le Vin est la plus saine et la plus hygiénique des boissons."
    - Louis Pasteur

    Wine is the healthiest and most hygienic of drinks.

    I always admired and respected Louis Pasteur for his
    experimental genius. The demonstration of racemic
    molecules and their optical activity. His demonstration
    of air borne animalcules that colonize and grow in food
    stuffs. Most elegant. He also note that it is
    infestation of wine by these animalcules that require
    an open bottle of wine be consumed, lest it go bad.

    --
    Michael Press

  3. Bill C said:

    What complete and utter rubbish.

    I agree.

    Quoted message said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

  4. Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    What complete and utter rubbish.

    I agree.

    Quoted message said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    http://www.hr.arizona.edu/03_hire/forms/loyaltyoath.pdf

    As near as I can tell, this oath obliges me to,
    among other things, resist by force of arms any
    attempt by California to steal any of Arizona's
    water. Or our sand, for that matter. (At least
    that's what I think "defend them against all
    enemies, foreign and domestic" means.)

    And don't get any smart ideas, Californians. You
    may have more people, but we probably have more guns.
    Also, our nutjobs are a lot scarier than your
    fruitcakes.

    Ben

  5. On Jun 20, 8:54 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Also, our nutjobs are a lot scarier than your
    fruitcakes.

    How many of your nutjobs think Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole?

  6. Simon Brooke said:

    They aren't forced to run the Tour. They could always cancel it and run a
    tiddly-winks tournament instead.

    Which raises the question, what [censored] would be good [censored] to take for
    tiddlywinks.

  7. Michael Press said:

    I always admired and respected Louis Pasteur for his
    experimental genius. The demonstration of racemic
    molecules and their optical activity. His demonstration
    of air borne animalcules that colonize and grow in food
    stuffs. Most elegant. He also note that it is
    infestation of wine by these animalcules that require
    an open bottle of wine be consumed, lest it go bad.

    Presumably that means LIVEDRUNK will promote him to saint status.

  8. Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    I can see your point, but where does it become intolerable for them?
    Striking would be a huge risk, especially now. Pound and some of the
    press and politicians have convinced large portions of the public that
    every bicycle racer is a doping scumbag. It's pretty easy to
    discriminate against and abuse any population once you convince the
    general public they are scum.
    Pretty typical historical political tactic.
    Sandy, Benjo and others have pointed out numerous times that the
    riders are really in a no win, weak situation and this is being taken
    advantage of by everyone around them. The only way I see to begin to
    change that is to make a fight out of this, form a good union, make
    the case that they are the little guys being eaten up and thrown away
    by the machine. Bring in other established labor leaders for advice
    and support, play up the tiny salary for the massive number of hours
    worked almost all of them actually make, etc...
    There are two real risks that I can see, the first is it just kills
    the sport off, or the UCI, organizers, and promoters go with scab
    racers and blackball everyone who dared challenge them.
    It's still getting paid, albeit like dogshit, to do something you
    love and others consider a game so they have to decide just how much
    abuse and exploitation they are willing to live with in this monopoly
    before they fight it.
    Very few easy decisions out here in real life.
    Bill C

  9. Bill C said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Jun 19, 9:36 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If they had any balls

    Quoted message said:

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    I can see your point, but where does it become intolerable for them?
    Striking would be a huge risk, especially now. Pound and some of the
    press and politicians have convinced large portions of the public that
    every bicycle racer is a doping scumbag. It's pretty easy to
    discriminate against and abuse any population once you convince the
    general public they are scum.
    Pretty typical historical political tactic.

    Indeed. I posted this in another newsgroup:

    I am sure you are all aware of the Duke lacrosse travesty and the ex-
    DA's disbarment, and how Nifong pursued his own political agenda at
    the cost of a college lacrosse team (championship caliber), town unity
    and individual students' lives.

    Disbarment and lawsuits only go so far, it's not enough. So here's
    the deal.

    I propose a truly lasting punishment for the ex-DA interminable
    douchebag - make his name an invective.

    Nifong! It already sounds like a curse, so why not?

    Examples:
    Are you outta your Nifong mind?!
    Go Nifong yourself.
    I stepped in a pile of still steaming Nifong.

    When someone's very name becomes a source of national and
    international ridicule, _that_ is a fitting punishment!

    Try it - it'll catch on.

    -end quote-

    Now, with a name like [censored] Pound, there's really not much room to make
    him more of an object of ridicule based on his name alone. I propose
    that hot-linking Dickie's name with Nifong's would create an accurate
    mental image of the true situation. [censored] "Nifong" Pound.

    R

  10. Dans le message de
    news:[email hidden],
    Bill C <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    I can see your point, but where does it become intolerable for them?
    Striking would be a huge risk, especially now. Pound and some of the
    press and politicians have convinced large portions of the public that
    every bicycle racer is a doping scumbag. It's pretty easy to
    discriminate against and abuse any population once you convince the
    general public they are scum.
    Pretty typical historical political tactic.
    Sandy, Benjo and others have pointed out numerous times that the
    riders are really in a no win, weak situation and this is being taken
    advantage of by everyone around them. The only way I see to begin to
    change that is to make a fight out of this, form a good union, make
    the case that they are the little guys being eaten up and thrown away
    by the machine. Bring in other established labor leaders for advice
    and support, play up the tiny salary for the massive number of hours
    worked almost all of them actually make, etc...
    There are two real risks that I can see, the first is it just kills
    the sport off, or the UCI, organizers, and promoters go with scab
    racers and blackball everyone who dared challenge them.
    It's still getting paid, albeit like dogshit, to do something you
    love and others consider a game so they have to decide just how much
    abuse and exploitation they are willing to live with in this monopoly
    before they fight it.
    Very few easy decisions out here in real life.
    Bill C

    The really sad part - the missing sine qua non - is rider courage. Yes,
    they get up and ride hurt ; they exceed their estimated potential ; they
    obstinately ride beyond pain. But, they have virtually no courage as a
    class when it comes to earning their living.

    I have studied the UCI contract and how it conforms to European labor law.
    Briefly, the parts most offensive to some of us are also in violation of
    (generally) existing rules on employment. The short labor contract tries to
    make the arrangement appear to be sub-contracting, yet the "employee"
    obligations are patently present. If ever the riders association developed
    into a strong union, the model UCI contract would be disembloweled in short
    course.

    That UCI contract _needs_ to be challenged and annulled, but the dreams of
    many, if not all, riders dictate that they glimpse a chance of earning a ton
    of money and glory in the short career of a pro racer. So long as they
    harbor those illusions, some of which turn into reality, and prefer illusion
    to courage, they are the losers.

    Benjo, more than I, knows the history of racing, and I am sure can tell of
    many men who looked to improve their lives by riding in support. They are
    the reality of this sport. They, more than the stars, need real protection
    from abuse by their bosses.

    Not sponsor, nor teams, nor the UCI has a stake in doping, really. There
    will always be some guys ready to turn pedals for cash. Regardless of its
    being a spectacle more than a sport, it would be curious if the American
    OSHA turned an eye to racing and the workplace environmental and procedural
    damages inflicted (joke, please). If sponsors leave, and if riders don't
    get princely wages, it is not the end of cycle racing. It could be the end
    of serious money, however. And I don't really care if someone can't earn
    millions in a year from this sport any more than I care about the earnings
    of pop music stars. There is no automatic entitlement to riches.
    --
    Sandy
    --
    C'est le contraire du vélo, la bicyclette.
    Une silhouette profilée mauve fluo dévale
    à soixante-dix à l'heure : c'est du vélo.
    Deux lycéennes côte à côte traversent
    un pont à Bruges : c'est de la bicyclette.
    -Delerm, P.

  11. Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    Which sounds fine, until you consider that "doping scandals" work both ways.
    The standard of proof the *should* be required to force a rider to pay one
    year's salary is far greater than anything I've seen applied so far. "Beyond
    a reasonable doubt" ought to be the rule here. That probably means not only
    a positive doping test (which, so far, have been suspect), but corroborating
    evidence elsewhere as well.

    "Damn, they're already embracing this".

    Why oh why would any self-respecting human being enter into this sort
    of contract, *especially* in light of the antics of Pound & Minions?
    --D-y

  12. Quoted post said:


    The A and B portions of that first positive, according to some, have
    such widely different characteristics that they are proof of
    contamination, if not baldfaced tampering. There's a technicality for
    you.

    Actually the two tests of the A portion alone showed such dramatic
    differences that it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was
    contamination. That they moved on to use the B portion was proof
    positive that they had an agenda and not a neutral position. This
    wasn't a lab, it was a method of eliminating the people they didn't
    want to see winning.

  13. Michael Press said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sandy said:

    "Le Vin est la plus saine et la plus hygiénique des boissons."
    - Louis Pasteur

    Wine is the healthiest and most hygienic of drinks.

    I always admired and respected Louis Pasteur for his
    experimental genius. The demonstration of racemic
    molecules and their optical activity. His demonstration
    of air borne animalcules that colonize and grow in food
    stuffs. Most elegant. He also note that it is
    infestation of wine by these animalcules that require
    an open bottle of wine be consumed, lest it go bad.

    Never an open bottle be left undrunk. Seems like a good life philosphy
    to me.

  14. Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    What complete and utter rubbish.

    I agree.

    Quoted message said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    Excuse me but what "loyalty oath" were you required to sign? Why do I
    get this idea that somehow you don't believe in restricted
    information?

    You remind me that when we opened the front door to our building in
    Berkeley a homeless guy walked in and started setting up a tent in the
    bathroom. The Berkeley Police took two hours to talk him out of our
    building and he walked up the street in a huff.

  15. Sandy said:


    Benjo, more than I, knows the history of racing, and I am sure can tell of
    many men who looked to improve their lives by riding in support. They are
    the reality of this sport. They, more than the stars, need real protection
    from abuse by their bosses.

    Sandy, you need to remember not to mention Benjo here who others
    without any base of reference consider to be racist.

    Quoted message said:

    Not sponsor, nor teams, nor the UCI has a stake in doping, really. There
    will always be some guys ready to turn pedals for cash. Regardless of its
    being a spectacle more than a sport, it would be curious if the American
    OSHA turned an eye to racing and the workplace environmental and procedural
    damages inflicted (joke, please). If sponsors leave, and if riders don't
    get princely wages, it is not the end of cycle racing. It could be the end
    of serious money, however. And I don't really care if someone can't earn
    millions in a year from this sport any more than I care about the earnings
    of pop music stars. There is no automatic entitlement to riches.

    Sandy, I don't know your earnings in France but few lawyers here work
    for the glory but mostly for the princely sum.

  16. Quoted message said:
    Sandy said:

    Benjo, more than I, knows the history of racing, and I am sure can tell of
    many men who looked to improve their lives by riding in support. They are
    the reality of this sport. They, more than the stars, need real protection
    from abuse by their bosses.

    Sandy, you need to remember not to mention Benjo here who others
    without any base of reference consider to be racist.

    No problem, Sandy's a chauvinist. That's okay - he's French (or at
    least plays one on Usenet).

    R

  17. cyclintom said:

    Sandy, you need to remember not to mention Benjo here who others
    without any base of reference consider to be racist.

    Huh. Are you sure you're not confusing poor Benjo with Tosi ?

  18. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    What complete and utter rubbish.

    I agree.

    Quoted message said:

    If they had any balls

    I agree, but I can understand the pressure they're under. I had to
    sign a loyalty oath, a remnant of the McCarthy era, when I started
    working for a public university.

    Excuse me but what "loyalty oath" were you required to sign? Why do I
    get this idea that somehow you don't believe in restricted
    information?

    You remind me that when we opened the front door to our building in
    Berkeley a homeless guy walked in and started setting up a tent in the
    bathroom. The Berkeley Police took two hours to talk him out of our
    building and he walked up the street in a huff.

    I'm surprised you werren't arrested for discrimination on the basis of familial
    association. You wouldn't have kicked your sister out of the bathroom so it is
    only because of your discriminatory outlook that you denied this man a place to
    stay.

    Ron

    Ron

    Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry

  19. While I am all for anti-doping campaigns, there's no way I would sign
    this accord if I were a rider. 1 years salary to a process that is not
    100% perfect? If the salary thing were taken out, I would sign.

  20. Quoted message said:

    Excuse me but what "loyalty oath" were you required to sign?

    The current oath, which is a slightly abridged version of the original
    oath that appears as Article 20, section 3 of the California
    Constitution. Aren't you familiar with it? It's here:
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_20

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